Indian Iran Collaboration & Pakistan's Failure To Build Power Base In GCC:---

[MastanKhan]

I cant convince myself to assume that Iran forced our GCC policy
Our relations with iran at best are same as we have with say Sweden or south Korea

Agree that iran saudi proxy war has turned region in rubble

And this is one reason Pakistan didnt condemn its troops to Yemen
Consider the outcry from public and oppositions as news of atrocities and/ or deaths related to Pakistani soldiers would have surfaced while at home we are failing to contain insurgency and terrorism

Yes the Sheikhs are not pleased and they never forgive or forget.
Our own TTP and its affiliates had already brought tge country to brink without the shia uprising in our country. Iranians had good chance to do it by arming hazara but they didnt ( or couldnt). I will have offline discussion with my serving hazara officers in pak mil to get a view although i know it well already they will be last to pick arms against Pakistan.

The indian alliance and business partnering with both GCC and Iran is troubling for sure.

Offer help to USA KSA and Israel re Iran issue and all will be gained and some we lost from not joining Yemen war.

Hi,

I was not convinced either but this turn of events has put the final nail---.

It could not have happened without the okay from iran---. India could not have taken such a big step without taking into confidence its major ally Iran about kashmir annexation---.

It is simply not possible---.

The kashmir annexation may or may not have been planned a longtime ago but the recent turn of events against iran is a clear sign that iran had its say and approval in it---.

Why---because iran is in dire straits one more time---and when iran is in dire straits---some other muslim nation has to suffer death and destruction---.

India jumped on the opportunity and iran gave the green signal---.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Seeing Iran with a sectarian eye is not entirely wrong as Pakistan possesses a sizable minority. But by doing that, it is automatically understood that they're Iranian lackeys. Iraq is a perfect example, a country with either half or majority Shi'ite population yet they are not totally servile. There are always different dynamics at play and for Pakistan it is that Shi'ite groups cannot hold their own if they dare besides they have for long enjoyed positions of power(Pakistan being a secular "Islamic" republic) but irrespective of that the relevant phrase would be they're "part of the mainstream" except for Hazara ofcourse. That being said Pakistan is amongst the largest contributors of U.N. peace keeping missions and I'd not say that those are entirely for national defense of Pakistan. So, by not stirring the hornets nest by indulging in Yemen may indeed be a good thing but a peace keeping mission would have satisfied both sides of this argument and perhaps GCC largesse as well.

 

[American Pakistani]

IMO, it was a great smart decision. We already have ethnic divisions, last thing we want is sectarian divisions.

Our enemies like India would've love that opportunity by presenting the fight in Yemen as Sunni govt plus Sunni states vs Shia population. They would've easily hijack the minds of our Shia population, not to mention when Pakistani soldiers get killed in the war by opposing groups who are Shia, many terrorists groups in Pakistan would've attacked our own Shia populations. Creating even more divisions.

Sorry, I completely disagree with op. IMO joining the nonsense war would've been like handing Pakistan to bhart on a plate for a meal.

 

[Kabira]

your comments will bring big grin on the faces of Indian planners
wishing you were right.


I dont agree with you. and I have an example for you.

our ex soldiers from police and army joined the force to quell the uprising in Bahrain. it didn't turn the "said" community against Pakistan.
Indian efforts to turn Hazara against Pakistan like they did with BLA failed as well. in the end Indians used sectarian terrorists to punish them and force then to turn against the state. I am local to that area and I have first person accounts of our security forces and the community as well.

Its well known fact Pakistan fault lines run deep through mainstream while Indian ones are on fringe. This is why India has been more successful in their terror activities in Pakistan vs we have done anything to them even in IoK which is fringe corner for them at best. Imagine if all of Pak terror was concentrated in Chitral and thats it, thats how Indians see IoK.

You see these afghanis in Peshwar have suddenly woke up in last week? Its not sudden, they have been activated. Throw some Indian rupees at them and they will do anything. What we have done in response? Meanwhile look what India does to their own citizens.

 

[PAKSpecialForces]

Its well known fact Pakistan fault lines run deep through mainstream while Indian ones are on fringe. This is why India has been more successful in their terror activities in Pakistan vs we have done anything to them even in IoK which is fringe corner for them at best. Imagine if all of Pak terror was concentrated in Chitral and thats it, thats how Indians see IoK.

You see these afghanis in Peshwar have suddenly woke up in last week? Its not sudden, they have been activated. Throw some Indian rupees at them and they will do anything. What we have done in response? Meanwhile look what India does to their own citizens.

Bottom line is, Pakistanis don't possess a patriotic killer instinct, indians do. To overcome this, Pakistan needs to promote extreme nationalism through the media and education system.

 

[TNT]

Cowardice and incompetence is always full of excuses---



Hi,

GCC was talking about permanent bases---. Permanent stationing of troops---.

Influence in the area---100's of thousand more jobs in the GCC at the expense of indian---.

A massive massive trickle down effect for an economic boom---.



Hi,

They did young man---they did---. Barak Hussein Obama did that---how else do you think the invitation came to be the protectors of the GCC---.

You are only 19 years old---when did yemen crisis start---? You would be too young to read into the details at that time---.

What cowardice and wat incompetence?? Ur naive to think of international relations as zero sum game. Ur also extremely naive to think the west will allow such power to be given to pak army. Ur also naive to think the GCC will abandon its relations with india. This is not how the world works.

 

[Shane]

Hi,

I was not convinced either but this turn of events has put the final nail---.

It could not have happened without the okay from iran---. India could not have taken such a big step without taking into confidence its major ally Iran about kashmir annexation---.

It is simply not possible---.

The kashmir annexation may or may not have been planned a longtime ago but the recent turn of events against iran is a clear sign that iran had its say and approval in it---.

Why---because iran is in dire straits one more time---and when iran is in dire straits---some other muslim nation has to suffer death and destruction---.

India jumped on the opportunity and iran gave the green signal---.

When is Pakistan going to wake up and smell the coffee that when it comes to Muslims of Pakistan and their National Interest, they must be united without any sectarian divide for the National Interest of Pakistan but not at the cost of it.

It is not about sects. It is about National Interest. Again, let me emphasize, Sects must be united towards National Interests not at the cost of it - otherwise it nullifies the very concept of unity.

This is precisely the point I made in my post that the reaction of Sunnis of Iran have never been a consideration for Iran when they make any decisions in their National Interest - nor did the shia of Kashmir make any difference to Iran viz a viz their National Interest in supporting India. The same stands true for the GCC countries.

That the GCC countries have been our biggest supporters whenever we are in trouble is evident by our mutually beneficial history. If going with the Interest of Pakistan means going with GCC and against the interests of Iran, as GCC is our biggest patron, then so be it.

Iran has never let Pakistan get in the way of helping India by handing out its Chabahar port for its base of operations in Afghanistan and obviously Pakistan.

Let me highlight another point here that makes average Pakistanis good intentions towards Iran quite as evident as daylight, we have never tried to instigate sectarian divide there or try to provide patronage to Sunnis of Iran. There is no organized State element within Pakistan which is working to recruit, arm and train Sunnis of Iran to fight for Pakistan within or outside of Iran. Agreed? It's obvious...need I say more? I think the average readers need a bit further expansion.

So let's see now...On the other hand, Pakistan suffers from organized sectarian intervention of a country in the form of recruitment and training of Pakistanis to fight for its interest around the middle east. Any nay Sayers?

This militant element automatically becomes a factor or leverage of internal sectarian divide to keep Pakistan under fear of sectarian violence. This organized militant leverage also played it's part in Pakistan deciding to stay neutral in Yemen for fear of its backlash at the hands of those who look after other interests above Pakistan.

Why do so many of us continue to call Roti ko Chochi?

Is this how any friend of Pakistan would act? Why are we choosing to become hostage to others Interests above those of Pakistan?

Pakistan, it's people and armed forces stand united for the National Interest of no other country but Pakistan. When our friendly countries help us and want us to reciprocate then Pakistan should oblige in its own National Interest so that or friendly countries too can continue to come to our aid in our time of need.

Precisely because of the same reason, if our enemy is facilitated by handing over operation of a key strategic Port just a few kilometers away from Gwadar and physical presence of its operatives like Kulbhushan or enemies of state like Uzmir Balooch then Pakistan should consider it an act of hostility and open threat to its National Interest. Period.

Pakistan Zindabad .

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

I was not convinced either but this turn of events has put the final nail---.

It could not have happened without the okay from iran---. India could not have taken such a big step without taking into confidence its major ally Iran about kashmir annexation---.

It is simply not possible---.

The kashmir annexation may or may not have been planned a longtime ago but the recent turn of events against iran is a clear sign that iran had its say and approval in it---.

Why---because iran is in dire straits one more time---and when iran is in dire straits---some other muslim nation has to suffer death and destruction---.

India jumped on the opportunity and iran gave the green signal---.

Khan lala
I will let it pass as a possibility maybe Iranian veiled threat to instigate Baloch insurgency ? but thats contradictory as Iran itself is facing Baloch insurgency from Jandullah
there must have been something? Iran couldnt even convince us to complete the pipeline for us and supply us the gas because KSA/ USA didnt approve it. not sure what it fed Mian sahib and Raheel sherif that one is languishing in jail and the other is enjoying million dollar perks in KSA

I am willing to set aside my emotional and moral argument re Pakistan not agreeing to send troops because of horrible experience of WoT (state institutions and their leaders are devoid of emotions and always coldly calculate the acceptable losses for national interests)
now that leadership is gone we can always change our stance. Yemen war only got worse for Saudis despite the years of indiscriminate bombing of rebels and civilians alike now UAE and KSA are supporting different groups so a bit to complexity

 

[BATMAN]

It was India who Helped Iran and Northern alliance in Afg. to curtail your Influence. Pakistan is de-fang in recent time and u guys thinking wht wrong we did to them, ask Palestinian, Iran and many others. Not every one forgot ur puppet show in Helping USA, Taliban and Mujaheddin in every part of the world.

Just a correction of the history... Mujahidin had been fighting USSR years before US chipped in with it's stingers. Indeed it was Pakistan at the back of Mujahidin, but Taliban was total indigenous movement. I know you will find many buyers of your story here but that's simply because their ally was Northern Alliance, who was being beaten by Taliban, so they created all sort of stories to justify their humiliation in Afghanistan.

A bit more elaboration, US role in Afghan war was more of of sabotage and their prime purpose was to establish a local network of agents. Wherein they succeeded overwhelmingly.
Americans created independent /parallel Jihadi groups, useful idiots were in abundance, i can only blame at their ignorance with Islam.
At the end of Soviet-Afghan war US killed Zia, got rid of stingers on ojary camp.... it shows their network ran deep in Armed forces as well.
After death of Zia, Pakistan was under the dark clouds of democracy, which helped Americans to penetrate deeper in Pashtoon society on both sides of border, while Indians took over Southern Punjab and started to play on both sides. I can't say if Americans and Indians were in cahoots but it's very much plausible.

 

[HAIDER]

Khan lala
I will let it pass as a possibility maybe Iranian veiled threat to instigate Baloch insurgency ? but thats contradictory as Iran itself is facing Baloch insurgency from Jandullah
there must have been something? Iran couldnt even convince us to complete the pipeline for us and supply us the gas because KSA/ USA didnt approve it. not sure what it fed Mian sahib and Raheel sherif that one is languishing in jail and the other is enjoying million dollar perks in KSA

I am willing to set aside my emotional and moral argument re Pakistan not agreeing to send troops because of horrible experience of WoT (state institutions and their leaders are devoid of emotions and always coldly calculate the acceptable losses for national interests)
now that leadership is gone we can always change our stance. Yemen war only got worse for Saudis despite the years of indiscriminate bombing of rebels and civilians alike now UAE and KSA are supporting different groups so a bit to complexity

On Yemen issue, Raheel Sharif put a very sensible suggestion. He told Saudis go to UN and get a resolution approved for Yemen peacekeeping mission and Pakistan will provide the army under UN umberalla. Very sensible move. Because same arab nations after "Black September" ,First Afghan war ,labelled Pakistan army, mercenaries or they can send the soldier to the highest bidder.
Unfortunately, our good segment of nation feed too much sectarianism. But ground reality is alwasy different. After long battle against terrorism, army earned the pride and now on top we have Kashmir issue is sucking in our big segment of armed forces, Pak army moved lots of its spcialized units from Afghan border. Can we open another front ?.... When everyone economic interests are prime and no one is on our side.
I asked so many times , why Suadi or UAE should sacrifice there billions of dollars investment in India for us ? . 99 percent Pakistani has no idea that GCC kids after schooling in US going back to there country. There thoughts and mentality is totally different. They talk business and they are much mature and have very practical approach.
Before 1979 Afghan war, all middle eastern students used to come to Pakistan for higher education. When terrorism started they diverted to either India or Europe. We have huge disconnect with that generation. From 1979 to 2019 imagine we have no interaction except sending low class labor.
I advice to Paksitani poster, don't blame anyone , neither Suadi,UAE or Iran there next generation dynamics are totally changed.

 

[jericho]

On Yemen issue, Raheel Sharif put a very sensible suggestion. He told Saudis go to UN and get a resolution approved for Yemen peacekeepers and Pakistan will provide the army under UN umberalla. Very sensible move.

I dont remember this actually and havent seen anyone raising this point. If its true then that was a fantastic and reasonable suggestion

 

[HAIDER]

I dont remember this actually and havent seen anyone raising this point. If its true then that was a fantastic and reasonable suggestion

Pakistan never denied its army, but under UN umberalla no one can blame for single bullet shot at anyone. We have biggest example of Bosnia , Pakistani army personally saved the life of Bosnian Muslim under UN peace keeping mission. PA fought and never get any blame from anyone. It's simple, If UN don't like our service then don't call us.

 

[Patriot01]

Contd Page 2

Once the indians had contained the strength of pak military and stopped its expansion to become a bigger recognized force in the region---it did not slow down in creating further divide between pakistan and welwishers---.

Pakistanis became programmed to talk bad about the arabs---from military expeditions that were the highlight of the nation---the claims started that and expeditionary force is a mercenary army and other hateful gutter content became the talk of the nation against the GCC---.

Now---when the govt of Imran Khan came into power---IK himself clearly stated of no military assistance for foreign nations---we will not fight any wars for anyone---let them do their own fighting---. This call became the last nail in the coffin of the indian occupied kashmir---.

Pakistan was standing alone---no friends close by---only enemies and those friends who were insulted by pakistan remained---.

So---after the separating pakistan from its herd---india decided it was high time to strike---the struck it did---. Indian occupied kashmir---a total curfew---370 cancelled---IOK annexed---pakistan standing with its mouth agape---in a total shock---peace lovers and irans lovers clueless to what had happened---everywhere confusion amass---.

9 million muslims as hostages in their homes with 900 K troops in charge of containing them---and pakistanis asking those that they insulted humiliated and degraded " where are you people---why did not not come and help us ".

I agree with you however i feel this is a lesson for Pakistan to be independent and for our leaders to focus on a proper strategy rather than giving useless speeches that make no difference.

I agree with you however i feel this is a lesson for Pakistan to be independent and for our leaders to focus on a proper strategy rather than giving useless speeches that make no difference.

For Pakistan its own interests and the ideology of our country should be number one priority always

 

[HAIDER]

Just a correction of the history... Mujahidin had been fighting USSR years before US chipped in with it's stingers. Indeed it was Pakistan at the back of Mujahidin, but Taliban was total indigenous movement. I know you will find many buyers of your story here but that's simply because their ally was Northern Alliance, who was being beaten by Taliban, so they created all sort of stories to justify their humiliation in Afghanistan.

A bit more elaboration, US role in Afghan war was more of of sabotage and their prime purpose was to establish a local network of agents. Wherein they succeeded overwhelmingly.
Americans created independent /parallel Jihadi groups, useful idiots were in abundance, i can only blame at their ignorance with Islam.
At the end of Soviet-Afghan war US killed Zia, got rid of stingers on ojary camp.... it shows their network ran deep in Armed forces as well.
After death of Zia, Pakistan was under the dark clouds of democracy, which helped Americans to penetrate deeper in Pashtoon society on both sides of border, while Indians took over Southern Punjab and started to play on both sides. I can't say if Americans and Indians were in cahoots but it's very much plausible.

Taliban was formed by Benazir Bhutt per PA advice for convey securities and later it turn into force .... Where Hillary Clinton took the blame too ...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

On Yemen issue, Raheel Sharif put a very sensible suggestion. He told Saudis go to UN and get a resolution approved for Yemen peacekeepers and Pakistan will provide the army under UN umberalla. Very sensible move. Because same arab nations after "Black September" ,First Afghan war ,labelled Pakistan army, mercenaries or they can send the soldier to the highest bidder.
Unfortunately, our good segment of nation feed too much sectarianism. But ground reality is alwasy different. After long battle against terrorism, they earned the pride and now on top we have Kashmir issue is sucking in our big segment of army, Pak army move lots of spcialized units from Afghan border. Can we open another front ?.... When everyone economic interests are prime and no one is on our side.
I asked so many times , why Suadi or UAE should sacrifice there billions of dollars investment in India for us ? . 99 percent Pakistani has no idea that GCC kids after schooling in US going back to there country. There thoughts and mentality is totally different. They talk business and they are much mature and have very practical approach.
Before 1979 Afghan war, all middle eastern students used to come to Pakistan for higher education. When terrorism started they diverted to either India or Europe. We have huge disconnect with that generation. From 1979 to 2019 imagine we have no interaction except sending low class labor.
I advice to Paksitani poster, don't blame anyone , neither Suadi,UAE or Iran there next generation dynamics are totally changed.

Palestinians became major haters of Pakistan after black September operation by then Brig zia
Yasir Arafat was Pro india since then and their stance on kashmir was pro india too

I agree with you. Arabs are now emotionless merchants they treat india as their equal partners pakistanis are just temp labour