Indian General:India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal

[username]

Buddy there is no difference. Our leadership failed us but our soldiers really made us proud. Their stories of courage and bravery are a source of inspiration for me and many others. If our leader ship would be strong and bold enough to support our soldiers I bet you your army would still be struggling to get Kargil back. And their would be Pakistan occupied Kargil rant from the Indians all the time.

The points like PA is brave but your leaders did not support and all does not hold good. It simply does not matter. We won by regaining lost territory and you lost by not being able to hold it.

The reason why wrote such a provocative reply highlighting your failure (Siachin Glacier) is because, Growler is simply trolling with his baseless comments like IA being strong took 2 months to regain etc... I don't understand with what scale he measures how long it should take for a strong military to regain a lost territory.

And can't you see we have been holding the so called Pakistan occupied Kashmir for 60+ years and your "brave" army has failed to take it back. The reason might be because our leadership is supporting our soldiers on the Azad Kashmir unlike Kargil. I think Azad Kashmir is also your territory according to Indians.

Areesh, what IndianArmy says is right... (not the IA, PDF user IndianArmy)... the Pakistan occupied Kashmir was never with India, before, besides GoI does not feel that it needs to be taken at any cost by force. But Siachin Glaciar was a strategically important thing for GoI, so it took it by force.
If you see, Siachin Glacier was with the control of PA and it was seized from them but still PA could not do anything for decades.

All we need is unity and consensus and IA has no chance then.

come back, when you have your wishlist of unity and consensus and then you take chance to occupy Kargil and IA can't do anything about it. Till then your points are baseless. Gosh, I think you wished for too much, didn't you ?

Anyways be happy and live with the illusion that you have won the war.":\victory:"

Yes you are victorious in ranting. have no illusions, be happy about it...

 

[username]

Indeed if corrupt and inept leaders don't show their back again.

I don't understand when you guys will start owning up your failures... the moment you don't collectively accept that you guys failed openly, you guys will never be able to stand on equal footing with anybody...

I think in a hypothetical case, if Somalia attacks Pakistan and you guys loose, you guys will be blaming one part either your leaders, or some of your own Citizens (like in 1971)...

When you fail you have failed, that's it case closed... nobody gives a damn about whether it is because of your leaders / your PA is not brave etc...

In our case we failed in 1962 war with China and we accept it collectively and are actively upgrading our military, intelligence etc... (I am not sure whether the corrective measures are enough, but still atleast we are taking corrective measures)... do something like this... first own up your failures... don't blame your leaders / any one particular group of your country for your failures, atleast not when you are taking to people from your hostile countries for your failures, accept it collectively...

 

[KS]

Buddy there is no difference. Our leadership failed us but our soldiers really made us proud. Their stories of courage and bravery are a source of inspiration for me and many others. If our leader ship would be strong and bold enough to support our soldiers I bet you your army would still be struggling to get Kargil back. And their would be Pakistan occupied Kargil rant from the Indians all the time.

U should be thankful Nawaz made a pragmatic step of approaching the US and offering a ceasefire.
But in hindsight if ur so called political leadership had not failed u...India had a strong oppurtunity to settle the Kashmir issue once and for all. after the 1971 war

And can't you see we have been holding the so called Pakistan occupied Kashmir for 60+ years and your "brave" army has failed to take it back. The reason might be because our leadership is supporting our soldiers on the Azad Kashmir unlike Kargil.

Thats wat i said....if that idiot Nawaz had not gone to US India could have settled the issue for ever...On calling Nawaz a fool..i agree with u..but for different reason.

I think Azad Kashmir is also your territory according to Indians.

U forgot the Northern Areas.

All we need is unity and consensus and IA has no chance then. Anyways be happy and live with the illusion that you have won the war.

If indeed u won the Kargil war y did Nawaz first go to US and then go into exile and y did Mushy become the dictator after conducting a coup..after all u won the war..

 

[Johny lever]

the geographical hurdle that IA faced,it should be applauded that IA recaptured Kargil in 2 months...BTW how long has it been since we forcefully captured Siachen and still with us ??

 

[Areesh]

The points like PA is brave but your leaders did not support and all does not hold good. It simply does not matter. We won by regaining lost territory and you lost by not being able to hold it.

The reason why wrote such a provocative reply highlighting your failure (Siachin Glacier) is because, Growler is simply trolling with his baseless comments like IA being strong took 2 months to regain etc... I don't understand with what scale he measures how long it should take for a strong military to regain a lost territory.



Areesh, what IndianArmy says is right... (not the IA, PDF user IndianArmy)... the Pakistan occupied Kashmir was never with India, before, besides GoI does not feel that it needs to be taken at any cost by force. But Siachin Glaciar was a strategically important thing for GoI, so it took it by force.
If you see, Siachin Glacier was with the control of PA and it was seized from them but still PA could not do anything for decades.



come back, when you have your wishlist of unity and consensus and then you take chance to occupy Kargil and IA can't do anything about it. Till then your points are baseless. Gosh, I think you wished for too much, didn't you ?



Yes you are victorious in ranting. have no illusions, be happy about it...

It simply does not matter. We won by regaining lost territory and you lost by not being able to hold it.

Well if it helps you to feel happy and contented then we have no issues with it.

Areesh, what IndianArmy says is right... (not the IA, PDF user IndianArmy)... the Pakistan occupied Kashmir was never with India, before, besides GoI does not feel that it needs to be taken at any cost by force. But Siachin Glaciar was a strategically important thing for GoI, so it took it by force.

So it is not occupied territory right? . GOI didn't tried to take Azad Kashmir by force because it know it's consequences. Even GOI claims Azad Kashmir to be their territory they never tried to invade it because they knew that this isn't that easy. Siachin is a different story. Your lame excuses doesn't change the fact that your so called "territory" is under our control and you can't do anything about it.

Even in this thread you might see many Indian claiming Azad Kashmir to be their territory, so what. If you are so proud of capturing (Siachin) Pakistan's territory then why don't give a chance to capture your own so called Pakistan occupied territory. 60+ years is a big time span. Isn't it. It doesn't matter whether it is with Indian or not. If it wasn't never with India then don't call it Pakistan occupied Kashmir. And if you call it then 60+ years is more then enough for the "victorious" Indian army to capture it.

come back, when you have your wishlist of unity and consensus and then you take chance to occupy Kargil and IA can't do anything about it. Till then your points are baseless. Gosh, I think you wished for too much, didn't you ?

Come back. Why don't you come back and take your so called territory. It is much bigger then Siachin and after all it is your supposed territory.

Yes you are victorious in ranting. have no illusions, be happy about it...

Don't you think this advice works for you too.

 

[username]

Well if it helps you to feel happy and contented then we have no issues with it.

So it is not occupied territory right? . GOI didn't tried to take Azad Kashmir by force because it know it's consequences. Even GOI claims Azad Kashmir to be their territory they never tried to invade it because they knew that this isn't that easy. Siachin is a different story. Your lame excuses doesn't change the fact that your so called "territory" is under our control and you can't do anything about it.

Even in this thread you might see many Indian claiming Azad Kashmir to be their territory, so what. If you are so proud of capturing (Siachin) Pakistan's territory then why don't give a chance to capture your own so called Pakistan occupied territory. 60+ years is a big time span. Isn't it. It doesn't matter whether it is with Indian or not. If it wasn't never with India then don't call it Pakistan occupied Kashmir. And if you call it then 60+ years is more then enough for the "victorious" Indian army to capture it.




Come back. Why don't you come back and take your so called territory. It is much bigger then Siachin and after all it is your supposed territory.




Don't you think this advice works for you too.

You are missing the point, if GoI feels it is important it will and can take it by force and hold to it example Siachin Glacier...

If PA feels it is important it can't take it and hold to it for long example, Kargil

At present GoI may not feel the importance in taking Pakistan occupied Kashmir by force... I don't have any insider information... but what I could think as the reason is that place might not be as strategically important as Siachin Glaciar...

On the otherhand GoI is concerned about people in Pakistan occupied Kashmir, if you want I could show you news reports where in GoI invites and says it could take care of people from Pakistan occupied Kashmir to come to our side of Kashmir...

 

[Icarus]

Here is the truth for you

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Just for the record, that isn't tiger peak............It's just some random rock.

 

[Icarus]

It's not a question of who lost or who won now, that's old news, the truth remains, regardless of what the general says, that Tiger Peak is with India because Nawaz Sharif could start a conflict but not sustain it, i.e. He chickened out and ordered a withdrawal, end of story, just like that.......................

 

[nForce]

Just for the record, that isn't tiger peak............It's just some random rock.

lol..and where did u get this record????Made it up in ur dreams??? it is a famous picture dude,the sign of Indian victory...

 

[Icarus]

lol..and where did u get this record????Made it up in ur dreams??? it is a famous picture dude,the sign of Indian victory...

Ever seen that famous picture of the American flag raising at Iwo Jima ? The one that inspired the monument in D.C ?
That was a redo, the real one wasn't half as dramatic.
Just because it's a symbol of victory or summat doesn't mean it has to be real.
The real Tiger hill and all of Kargil sector is snow capped throughout the year. With summer temperatures as low as -15 to -20 degree Celsius.
Just to give you an idea what Tiger Hill actually looks like, this is an Indian post in a surrounding area.

Notice the distinct lack of snow in your victory picture and check out what the real Kargil looks like, you will get what I mean.
Cheers,

 

[deckingraj]

You are missing the point, if GoI feels it is important it will and can take it by force and hold to it example Siachin Glacier...

If PA feels it is important it can't take it and hold to it for long example, Kargil

At present GoI may not feel the importance in taking Pakistan occupied Kashmir by force... I don't have any insider information... but what I could think as the reason is that place might not be as strategically important as Siachin Glaciar...

On the otherhand GoI is concerned about people in Pakistan occupied Kashmir, if you want I could show you news reports where in GoI invites and says it could take care of people from Pakistan occupied Kashmir to come to our side of Kashmir...

Let me clear a couple of things for you...

a) You are right when you say P-O-K was not part of India but that does not mean we do not claim it...Yes it was never under our control but that part belong to us(as per Indian POV)...
b) It is a disputed territory and as per 48 cease fire both parties are supposed to respect LOC and resolve the issue amicably...This stand was further enhanced by Shimal Accord post Pakistan debacle of 71...
c) As per Indian POV current status quo is in India's favor and that's why we have no intentions of further escalating the issue...We are fine as long as there is no sponsored millitancy...This is the reason Pakistan is hell bent on making Kashmir issue an international issue and supporting insurgency
d) You are wrong when you say Siachen is strategically important...In fact there are tons of articles which tells that this peace of glacier has no significance...Its insignificance was the reason that during Shimla Accord(when India was a clean winner) strategist did not feel it is important to demarcate LOC covering this area...
e) Unfortunately what seems to be insignificant become significant because of the animosity between two countries...Both countries were claiming this area as per their own understanding and GOP started issuing permission for trekking expeditions...This created lot of hue and cry in India...
f) Both PA and IA started preparing to take control of the glacier almost at same time...We happen(intelligence inputs about PA plan) to reach there earlier and once you have your defences in place at such heights it is impossible to get you out from there....

Unlike popular belief among our neighbours India has no record of attacking any country right from her birth thousands years ago....anyways i think i have clarified few of the things here...Feel free to ask/correct me...

 

[deckingraj]

Self-Delete

 

[nForce]

Ever seen that famous picture of the American flag raising at Iwo Jima ? The one that inspired the monument in D.C ?
That was a redo, the real one wasn't half as dramatic.
Just because it's a symbol of victory or summat doesn't mean it has to be real.

Comparing apples with oranges ehh??just because one famous picture is controversial does not necessarily mean that anything and everything have to be controversial or unreal.What were u thinking before comparing these two famous pics???

The real Tiger hill and all of Kargil sector is snow capped throughout the year. With summer temperatures as low as -15 to -20 degree Celsius.

Just to give you an idea what Tiger Hill actually looks like, this is an Indian post in a surrounding area.

Notice the distinct lack of snow in your victory picture and check out what the real Kargil looks like, you will get what I mean.
Cheers,

The night temperature may fall below freezing point in Tiger hill region,but the day temperature is normally above freezing point during summer.Moreover the assault on Tiger hill was commenced on 2nd July.Thats the peak summer time in that region.Dont expect a blanket of snow at a height of 4000 mts during that time..

Regarding picture quality and all...theres again a difference between photography of mid-40's and late 90's..hope u understand...Anyways ,Tiger hill was captured was Indian Army,and after that,there was nobody there to stop them from taking pictures...so I dont see any reason to fabricate anything...
As a matter of fact, u r the first person I am encountering who expressed doubt over the credibility of the picture..The only question is,r u plausible enough to be taken seriously by me or u r just here to do some cheap troll...a few posts from u and that will be clear to me...

 

[rangbaaz]

tum log lad lad k mar jao ici argument myn k kaun jeeta kaun hara. jang myn jeet kici kee b nhi hotee

 

[asq]

Good, but you still didn't show me this trend of minorities in Pakistan declining....




Woah, let's keep the brainwashed, and other personal remarks to ourselves please. I don't want to express my feelings about Islam now.

@also, I ain't talking about Hindus only.
Count all the minorities bro. Talk about the Christians, Sikhs too.
Now the minority population of Pakistan is 1%.

It's from the CIA factbook 2009. Or is this brainwashed Indian media too?

when did i say anthing about Hinduism, I said about u, so u mentioing Islam is a shame, but than Indians aways try to cunnuingly change the subject.

link please.

And I visited the CIA factbook, I did not see any thing aboutminorites being 1%, all I saw was 3% and no mention about it is now 1%. where the h.... did u get that from.
/
/Do read another linkother than CIA fact book, is there two of those or R.U. kidding me