What's new

Indian defence & religion

Status
Not open for further replies.
They are not mutually exclusive categories.



Don't make assumptions about whether I am a believer or not :)

Generally in India people welcome good wishes from the gods of all traditions :)

The goal is to make people happy - If it's a public organization or public ceremony, then it should not be too obtrusive, and people from all denominations should be given the opportunity to conduct their rituals, if they so desire.

Good, lets conclude at that.
 
.
I do not underestimate what money can do when it came to elections in TN. And the support the local lords have. But the support does not guarantee wins unless you represent two leaves or rising sun symbols. How do you think the tea shop owners became MLAs?

If congress has that kind of money to spend in TN and influence the results, why would they want to spend that kind of money through Azhagiri?

As for the his support for Abrahamic religions, I would suggest to google for what he said about Christians and Muslims.

Thats true,

But it is a big myth that the Congress is weak in TN,it has useless leaders and has lost its grassroot level force but still anything can change anytime in TN.Is like a dynamo.


What he says and does are two different things?

Again we are not talking about your private Bhumi Pooja. Do as you like it then. But having an elaborate ritual before every national project which also involves minorities is not right to put it mildly.

Not to mention any ritual has no scientific basis to it.

I still dont know why anyone is offended by this,if i happen to be in a different country with another religion,i would still go ahead and appreciate the intention rather than cry foul.,
 
.
science helps us to build satellites and put them in orbit

It is technology, not science, which helps us build satellites and put them in orbit. The process of development of technology is significantly different from the process of doing science.

faith in god (not superstition) gives boost to our morale and confidence

It might be true, depending on whether or not the individual believes in God.

thus it indirectly helps those ISRO scientists who develop several advanced satellites as they have the faith that God is there to help them and to bless their efforts

These are two separate issues. My faith in God may keep me going. It is my faith in the scientific method that keeps me successful. And in building an advanced satellite, I do not need to be a scientist, only a technician. I can have faith in God and be a good technician, but it is not necessary.

faith in god also helps scientists to recover mentally from failures comparatively quicker ( as my understanding says)

There is no evidence that deist scientists - or deist technicians - have quicker recovery rates from failure. There is nothing for it, or against it.

such faith (till it doesn't turn a person into a superstitions,lazy person) is good, in this sense

I have assumed that your faith in God is not a collection of superstitions and superstitious practices, but a different kind of faith in God.



i hope sir Joe will agree with me

What difference will it make? The point of all these discussions is that the private beliefs of some should not be imposed on all. That applies to the beliefs of the majority in this country, the Hindus, and to the minorities, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains.
 
.
Please dont call Buddhists,Sikhs and Jains as different,their religions are intertwined with Hinduism/Santana Dharma.

They are not minorities and they belong to the same fold as always.
 
.
Thats true,

But it is a big myth that the Congress is weak in TN,it has useless leaders and has lost its grassroot level force but still anything can change anytime in TN.Is like a dynamo.


What he says and does are two different things?



I still dont know why anyone is offended by this,if i happen to be in a different country with another religion,i would still go ahead and appreciate the intention rather than cry foul.
,

I would too but that doesn't make it right because you are assuming every one would be okay with it. Most would but not all.
 
.
Please dont call Buddhists,Sikhs and Jains as different,their religions are intertwined with Hinduism/Santana Dharma.

They are not minorities and they belong to the same fold as always.

That is a Hindu majoritarian view, and not the view of the Akali Dal, for instance, or the Buddhists of the Bahujan Mahasangh. Jains may have an assimilative view.

Apparently you have not studied Buddhism or Jainism, otherwise you would know why Brahmins considered the Buddha and his followers, as well as Mahavira and his followers, heretics. Sankaracharya spent most of his active life in combating and defeating Buddhist leaders and converting them back to Hinduism.

If your intertwining theory had been correct, these harsh judgements and these combative steps would not have been necessary.
 
.
That is a Hindu majoritarian view, and not the view of the Akali Dal, for instance, or the Buddhists of the Bahujan Mahasangh. Jains may have an assimilative view.

Apparently you have not studied Buddhism or Jainism, otherwise you would know why Brahmins considered the Buddha and his followers, as well as Mahavira and his followers, heretics. Sankaracharya spent most of his active life in combating and defeating Buddhist leaders and converting them back to Hinduism.

If your intertwining theory had been correct, these harsh judgements and these combative steps would not have been necessary.

I did not say they are the same,i am saying they have a different point of view than ours,which is okay but still just like how Judaism/Christianity/Islam have their similarities(they certainly do),Dharmic religions of India also do.

The Akali Dal is a spent force and it is a different topic altogether,if you compare sikhism before the Khalsa and after that you can see the political nature of it.

Anyway India has no lack of cults/heretics/babas.

I would too but that doesn't make it right because you are assuming every one would be okay with it. Most would but not all.

we all cant always have the cake and eat it too.
 
. .
science helps us to build satellites and put them in orbit

It is technology, not science, which helps us build satellites and put them in orbit. The process of development of technology is significantly different from the process of doing science.

faith in god (not superstition) gives boost to our morale and confidence

It might be true, depending on whether or not the individual believes in God.

thus it indirectly helps those ISRO scientists who develop several advanced satellites as they have the faith that God is there to help them and to bless their efforts

These are two separate issues. My faith in God may keep me going. It is my faith in the scientific method that keeps me successful. And in building an advanced satellite, I do not need to be a scientist, only a technician. I can have faith in God and be a good technician, but it is not necessary.

faith in god also helps scientists to recover mentally from failures comparatively quicker ( as my understanding says)

There is no evidence that deist scientists - or deist technicians - have quicker recovery rates from failure. There is nothing for it, or against it.

such faith (till it doesn't turn a person into a superstitions,lazy person) is good, in this sense

I have assumed that your faith in God is not a collection of superstitions and superstitious practices, but a different kind of faith in God.



i hope sir Joe will agree with me

that's why i used words " as my understanding says "

i didn't claim that i am right.

my point is till a person's faith in god doesn't affect his work or make him superstitious, his faith in god is not problem

i would call it Positive/ Morale Booster faith

these ISRO scientists must be under so much pressure 24x7

so they (as per my understanding) a "aadhar" somewhere and faith in god is may be aadhar for them


It is technology, not science, which helps us build satellites and put them in orbit. The process of development of technology is significantly different from the process of doing science.

agree, but whole this is based on Rocket science( a science); isn't it?
 
.
Thats true,

But it is a big myth that the Congress is weak in TN,it has useless leaders and has lost its grassroot level force but still anything can change anytime in TN.Is like a dynamo.


What he says and does are two different things?



I still dont know why anyone is offended by this,if i happen to be in a different country with another religion,i would still go ahead and appreciate the intention rather than cry foul.,


If Congress is strong and if money can win elections in TN, then Robert Vadra would be the chief minister of TN by now and Rahul Gandhi would be sitting on 40 MP seats and Karunanidhi would have retired from politics.
 
.
I did not say they are the same,i am saying they have a different point of view than ours,which is okay but still just like how Judaism/Christianity/Islam have their similarities(they certainly do),Dharmic religions of India also do.

The Akali Dal is a spent force and it is a different topic altogether,if you compare sikhism before the Khalsa and after that you can see the political nature of it.

Anyway India has no lack of cults/heretics/babas.

It is such a wonderful thing to have a thought leader like you leading the discussions. Two questions:

What are the similarities between Judaism/Christianity/Islam?

What are the similar similarities between Dharmic (=Indic=Hindu+Buddhist+Jain+Sikh) religions?

I note your one line for the Akali Dal. What conciseness! What a masterly epigram. More, please, your hungry, thirsty public thirsts (and hungers) for more.

that's why i used words " as my understanding says "

i didn't claim that i am right.

my point is till a person's faith in god doesn't affect his work or make him superstitious, his faith in god is not problem

i would call it Positive/ Morale Booster faith

these ISRO scientists must be under so much pressure 24x7

so they (as per my understanding) a "aadhar" somewhere and faith in god is may be aadhar for them




agree, but whole this is based on Rocket science( a science); isn't it?

No.

Sadly, no. I am sorry to disappoint you. It is an expression in common language.
 
.
science helps us to build satellites and put them in orbit

faith in god (not superstition) gives boost to our morale and confidence

thus it indirectly helps those ISRO scientists who develop several advanced satellites as they have the faith that God is there to help them and to bless their efforts

faith in god also helps scientists to recover mentally from failures comparatively quicker ( as my understanding says)

such faith (till it doesn't turn a person into a superstitions,lazy person) is good, in this sense

i hope sir Joe will agree with me

With due respect, I beg to disagree with some points there:

faith in god (not superstition) gives boost to our morale and confidence

Faith in God is a matter of self-comfort. Something that human beings (at least some of them) need.
E.G. when I was a child, and afraid of the dark; an uncle told me to whistle- it would help me make it through; while my Granny told me to pray to God, he'd protect me in the darkness. Both were right in their own ways; and both things meant the same: i.e. a means to reassure myself through a period of uncertainty. Of course I had to eventually dicover my own method(s) to deal with such a situation.

While our Philosophy very clearly explains, even enjoins us to understand that we have to have faith in ourselves, to really "give a boost to our morale and confidence."
We can't park it in God's doorway.

faith in god also helps scientists to recover mentally from failures comparatively quicker ( as my understanding says)

If you refer to what I said earlier here AND (most of all) our Philosophical texts; you'll understand that this concept may be infirm and fallacious. At best it is a "comforting mental cushion" (like whistling in the dark). The strength to recover from a daunting failure always is found within. Of course, may be with some stimulus, assistance from somebody else (usually another human :-))

To try and sum up in very simple terms; I am reminded of a simple Hindi expression which says:

"Dekhya, Parkhya, Seekhya"
Dekhya- to observe minutely with full concentration.
Parkhya- to analyse with complete application of all of one's faculties.
Seekhya- to learn with the utmost diligence.
Using this, anybody (including any Scientist) will be able to recover from nearly anything.

About faith in God: again the ancient Philosophical texts explain that Self is not detached from God and vice-versa.
Kabir explained that again in the simplest possible terms "Moko kahan dhoonde re Bande, main hoon tere paas".
I.E. Why are you seeking me here and there, I am with you (within you).

So why complicate matters? We're simple folks, we can find simple (and yet effective) ways! :)
 
.
If Congress is strong and if money can win elections in TN, then Robert Vadra would be the chief minister of TN by now and Rahul Gandhi would be sitting on 40 MP seats and Karunanidhi would have retired from politics.

Is not so simple,i was saying they r not that weak as people think they are.
 
.
With due respect, I beg to disagree with some points there:



Faith in God is a matter of self-comfort. Something that human beings (at least some of them) need.
E.G. when I was a child, and afraid of the dark; an uncle told me to whistle- it would help me make it through; while my Granny told me to pray to God, he'd protect me in the darkness. Both were right in their own ways; and both things meant the same: i.e. a means to reassure myself through a period of uncertainty. Of course I had to eventually dicover my own method(s) to deal with such a situation.

While our Philosophy very clearly explains, even enjoins us to understand that we have to have faith in ourselves, to really "give a boost to our morale and confidence."
We can't park it in God's doorway.




If you refer to what I said earlier here AND (most of all) our Philosophical texts; you'll understand that this concept may be infirm and fallacious. At best it is a "comforting mental cushion" (like whistling in the dark). The strength to recover from a daunting failure always is found within. Of course, may be with some stimulus, assistance from somebody else (usually another human :-))

To try and sum up in very simple terms; I am reminded of a simple Hindi expression which says:

"Dekhya, Parkhya, Seekhya"
Dekhya- to observe minutely with full concentration.
Parkhya- to analyse with complete application of all of one's faculties.
Seekhya- to learn with the utmost diligence.
Using this, anybody (including any Scientist) will be able to recover from nearly anything.

About faith in God: again the ancient Philosophical texts explain that Self is not detached from God and vice-versa.
Kabir explained that again in the simplest possible terms "Moko kahan dhoonde re Bande, main hoon tere paas".
I.E. Why are you seeking me here and there, I am with you (within you).

So why complicate matters? We're simple folks, we can find simple (and yet effective) ways! :)

i know it

no one can just rely on faith but also must have faith in himself and needs to do hardwork

as i said earlier for those ISRO scientists, may be faith in GOD is a "aadhar"
 
.
Tamizhan said:
Please mate, we all travel around and I have travelled my fair share, atleast in my native state and there is not much perciptible difference in how the Dalits practise Hinduism or we OBCs do it. They take their new bike to the temple for puja, they do Vasthu Puja before starting a construction, they do celebrate all festivals we celebrate if that is what the upper-caste practises as is insinuated.

Manas said:
Forget dalit ,even Adibasis of Odisha observes hindu rituals like any other caste Hinduss. They worship idols Hindu god/godess at home like any other hindu households.
So all Hindus are homogeneous. From Northern tip of India to Southern, from Eastern tip to the Western. Why does this remind me of AIML's claim in the 40s how all Muslims are homogeneous.

Do you realize, that by simply selecting to worship a different deity, you change everything, right from rituals to lifestyle. With accumulation of local cultural quarks - more secluded, more such accumulation - it may sometimes be unrecognizable.

Just watch how a Vaishnav goes about with his/her religious chores and then watch a Lingayat. Don't be surprised if you are surprised.
Tamizhan said:
Sure subtle differences might be there, but saying that a Dalit Hindu will be offended if some one does a Puja while inaugarating a new facility is ridiculous.
Forget Dalit. I, as Bengali, not just as an atheist, would be uncomfortable with this lemon/coconut thingie because we Bengalis don't do it that way. What gives.

Manas said:
If Area in front of ur room doesn't belong to you and If you had given the same piece of your mind in front of me provably i would crush the coconut on your head.
Of course. The moment you see an opposing view taking shape and challenging your hollow hegemony, your primal instinct of hurting the fellow kicks in. Then, you turn on your laptop, connect to internet, log on to PDF and point fingers at Islamists, and wax eloquent about their intolerance.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom