Indian defence & religion

[Rig Vedic]

The Indic civilization celebrates all its diversities, underlying which there is a civilizational unity.

It is a bouquet in which each flower is happy with itself, and celebrates all the other flowers.

 

[Subramanian]

Azaan in the morning & Church bells are no issue,

I never see people complaining about it.I know religious people in all religions and they are always nice,

it is only the god less marxists who have a dogged agenda to undermine us.

 

[Rig Vedic]

^^^ You should read Rajiv Malhotra's "Being Different" book, which looks at the underlying civilizational unity of the Indic world-views.

Being Different Book

 

[Hindustani]

I don't understand what's so "bad" about breaking a coconut for good luck.

Hell other "secular democracies" do something more or less similar.

The ceremony of christening new ships began in the distant past, and we know that Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians all held ceremonies to ask the gods to protect sailors.

By the 1800s the christenings of ships began to follow a familiar pattern. A “christening fluid” would be poured against the bow of the ship, though it was not necessarily wine or champagne. There are accounts in the US Navy records of 19th century warships being christened with water from significant American rivers.

The christening of ships became great public events, with large crowds assembled to witness the ceremony. And it became standard for champagne, as the most elite of wines, to be used for the christening. The tradition developed that a female would do the honors and be named the sponsor of the ship.

How To Break A Bottle.. for good luck | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore



France

French ship launchings and christenings in the 18th and early 19th centuries were accompanied by unique rites closely resembling marriage and baptismal ceremonies. A godfather for the new ship presented a godmother with a bouquet of flowers as both said the ship's name. No bottle was broken, but a priest pronounced the vessel named and blessed it with holy water.

India

In India, ships have historically been launched with a Puja ceremony that dedicates the ship to a god, and seeks blessings for her and her sailors. Historically, Hindu priests would perform the puja ceremony at launch. In the 20th century, ship are launched with a lady breaking a coconut on the bow of the vessel, which is sometimes followed by a small Puja.

Japan

Japanese ship launchings incorporate silver axes which are thought to bring good luck and scare away evil. Japanese shipbuilders traditionally order the crafting of a special axe for each new vessel; and after the launching ceremony, they present the axe to the vessel's owner as a commemorative gift. The axe is used to cut the rope which tethers the ship to the place where she was built.

United Kingdom

Sponsors of British warships were customarily members of the royal family, senior naval officers, or Admiralty officials. A few civilians were invited to sponsor Royal Navy ships during the nineteenth century, and women became sponsors for the first time. In 1875, a religious element was returned to naval christenings by Princess Alexandra, wife of the Prince of Wales, when she introduced an Anglican choral service in the launching ceremony for battleship Alexandra. The usage continues with the singing of Psalm 107 with its special meaning to mariners:

They that go down to the sea in ships;
That do business in great waters;
These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


In 1969, the British monarch Queen Elizabeth II incorrectly named the ocean liner RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 after herself, instead of the older liner RMS Queen Elizabeth, by saying "I name this ship Queen Elizabeth the Second. May God bless her and all who sail in her."

etc..

 

[LaBong]

If Area in front of ur room doesn't belong to you and If you had given the same piece of your mind in front of me provably i would crush the coconut on your head.

Ok Sir Internet tough guy.

You seem not to be befit of living in a civilized commune. Normally if crush coconut in front of others room in civilized societies, will not be tolerated a day.

Off couse I'd not mind if your clear the mess afterwards.

 

[Tamizhan]

No vendic chants while launching a new ship, if you know what I mean, it betrays our own vision.

What vision it destroys ?

Religion is an integral part of our armed forces and as someone who has relatives in it, I can personally attest to it.

And by religion I don't mean one religion in exclusivity but all. Sarv Dharmsthals are the highlight of any garrison or post along the border.Ofcourse Hinduism would have the maximum exposure by virtue of its adherents being the maximum in mumber,but it doesn't mean others are persecuted or discriminated.

This is the secularism in Army, not the narrow insecure types that are on display here.

kashmir diary - Broadcasting my thoughts

On another instance, I remember a Commanding 0fficer ordered the battalion Maulaviji to conduct the proceedings of Janamashtmi prayers because the panditji had to proceed on leave on compassionate grounds. No eyebrows were raised. It was the most rousing and best-prepared sermon on Lord Krishna I have ever had the pleasure of listening to.
[.....]
On the Line of Control, a company of Khemkhani Muslim soldiers replaced a Dogra battalion. Over the next few days, the post was shelled heavily by Pakistanis, and there were a few non-fatal casualties. 0ne day, the junior commissioned officer of the company, Subedar Sarwar Khan walked up to the company commander Major Sharma and said, “Sahib, ever since the Dogras left,
the mandir has been shut. Why don’t you open it once every evening and do aarti? Why are we displeasing the Gods?”

Major Sharma shamefacedly confessed he did not know all the words of the aarti. Subedar Sarwar went away and that night, huddled over the radio set under a weak lantern light, painstakingly took down the words of the aarti from the post of another battalion!
[.......]

How many of us know that along the entire border with Pakistan, our troops abstain from alcohol and non-vegetarian food on all Thursdays? The reason: It is called the Peer day — essentially a day of religious significance for the Muslims.

People need to rise above attributing religion to each and every ritual that has been practised since ages in this land. Even though it is also their culture, no one asks them to be proud of that or attend that..but just dont criticise it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Lighting a deepa is an integral part of all Indic religions and even Parsis who worship fire.

Again, stop using the names of other communities to hide your own insecurity. They don't deserve it.

In that case, the question arises: knowing very well that the deepa is restricted to the Indic religions, what is communicated to the others who are not of the Indic religions by using it in public functions?

What has the Parsi worship of the sacred fire got to do with lighting deepas? Do you even know the ritual and circumstances in which the sacred fire has to be lit? Are you seriously of the opinion that it is similar to lighting a deepa?

 

[LaBong]

I don't understand what's so "bad" about breaking a coconut for good luck.

Hell other "secular democracies" do something more or less similar.

There is nothing wrong as long as it remains your personal preference. But there is everything wrong in institutionalization of obscure rituals.

 

[Rig Vedic]

In that case, the question arises: knowing very well that the deepa is restricted to the Indic religions, what is communicated to the others who are not of the Indic religions by using it in public functions?

What has the Parsi worship of the sacred fire got to do with lighting deepas? Do you even know the ritual and circumstances in which the sacred fire has to be lit? Are you seriously of the opinion that it is similar to lighting a deepa?

It is a part of the civilizational heritage of all Indians.

Ask APJ Abdul Kalam. He understands a lot more about India than you do.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Periyar is a moron,

Fortunately, the other 99% of Tamil Nadu thinks differently.

He just taught people to trash talk and do nothing.

Would your hostility have anything to do with his withering contempt for Tamil Brahmins?

Many world famous Scientists are Jewish and many Indian Nobel winners are also religious people.

The many consists of four. What conclusions are you trying to draw from a sample of four? And have you checked out how many of the Jewish Nobel Laureates are atheist?

trying to use cause and effect relationship to this level is useless.

White man also discovered the Nuclear Bomb,almost all technological advances came in the wake of war/destruction,

so whats the point here?

Sending a man to the moon is more important than inventing numerals,is it?

Periyar says dont take a bath,dont waste water,he ll chop off his coconut groves because they are used for Toddy,

he is a solid moron paid off by missionaries.

You are right. Some asinine comments are simply not worth dealing with.

Ok, so you did, elaborate your experience now......

She said that she did not care either way, being agnostic, but felt it was preposterous that the entire matter was taken for granted, and that her consent, indeed, the whole team's consent, was assumed.

On checking in an Open House, most people, mostly Hindus, felt that it was a waste of time. A crestfallen Admin. Officer cancelled the ritual.

 

[Tamizhan]

I don't understand what's so "bad" about breaking a coconut for good luck.

Hell other "secular democracies" do something more or less similar.

All the countries listed are proud of the secularism enshrined in their constitution but say with equal pride that their culture has its roots in Judeo-Christian traditions. It is the same in India with the small change, our roots lie in Indic traditions. But try sayin that you will be faced with a deluge of hate mail proscribing you as a Hindutva fanatic, sangh parivar fascist, communalist and all such colorful adjectives. It is a peculiar inferiority complex rooted in the minds of many wherein anything remoted associated with Indic traditions, culture is despicable and critic worthy. They are the 'progressives' of today.

This candid essay by an ex-"secularist" cum activist Yoginder Sikand who till now was known for his scathing articles on brahmanists, Hindutva agents captures it all.

Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism' By Yoginder Sikand

Imagining myself as crusading on behalf of the 'oppressed' and as being a key player in the 'struggle' for 'social justice' for a host of 'marginalised communities' turned me completely blind to every good thing in those whom I began to see as their 'oppressors' (in the Indian context, mainly 'upper' caste/class Hindus) and in what was termed, in the jargon of the 'progressives' whose ranks I so desperately wanted to join, the 'present oppressive system'. There was nothing at all good in Hindu traditions or in America or in Capitalist Modernity, for instance, I convinced myself, for I was hooked onto the 'progressive' and 'radical' rhetoric that 'upper' caste Hindus in general (including most of my own family!) and almost every single American was complicit in perpetuating 'oppression'. If you had to be counted as a 'social activist', you simply couldn't see or find anything worthy at all in 'upper' caste Hindus or in Americans, and, if you did, your sincerity and commitment were gravely suspect. So deep-rooted was this negative mentality among 'social activists' supposedly committed to the 'oppressed' that for a 'progressive' to discern anything positive about 'the present system' or Indic spirituality, for instance, was about the most serious anathema conceivable.

Can you see the similarity in the line of thought ?

Fortunately, the other 99% of Tamil Nadu thinks differently.

No senor, a vast majority of them don't agree with the ideals/policies of Periyar regarding Hinduism. It is only the fossils in DK who still carry on that legacy.

In that case, the question arises: knowing very well that the deepa is restricted to the Indic religions, what is communicated to the others who are not of the Indic religions by using it in public functions?

I thought lighting candles was an integral part of xtianity too. Deepas, candles..not much difference

 

[Manas]

Ok Sir Internet tough guy.

You seem not to be befit of living in a civilized commune. Normally if crush coconut in front of others room in civilized societies, will not be tolerated a day.

Off couse I'd not mind if your clear the mess afterwards.

Alas you can't even get tough on the internet .

I am living in more civilized commune than yours where normally crushing of coconuts on the ground is done on religious events where people come out to celebrate and share coconut as Prasad.

We are talking public religious rituals here ,not inconvenient arsing out of bad behavior.

 

[Tamizhan]

There is nothing wrong as long as it remains your personal preference. But there is everything wrong in institutionalization of obscure rituals.

The world is not ideal. Every culture has its own quirky practices that lend the uniqueness and color to it. Doing away with it leaves a bland robotic process with no spice,color in it. This is our culture, our tradition and as such must be maintained.

Right side brain is necessary for the optimal utilization of left side.

 

[Subramanian]

In that case, the question arises: knowing very well that the deepa is restricted to the Indic religions, what is communicated to the others who are not of the Indic religions by using it in public functions?

What has the Parsi worship of the sacred fire got to do with lighting deepas? Do you even know the ritual and circumstances in which the sacred fire has to be lit? Are you seriously of the opinion that it is similar to lighting a deepa?

In TN,

The culture followed by many christians is in lieu with the hindus.They call the church as kovil and wear flowers on their hair,talk and behave the same way,call their god as saamy and all fine until the great preachers have to come and tell them random lies and create problems,make them aggressive,make them break temples and create a divide.

They also light candles in front of a photo/statue of jesus christ and i see the idea of lighting very similar to the deepam.

above all,real religious people ll never have issues with another persons religiousness.

 

[Tamizhan]

Indian culture is rooted in Indic traditions. That is a fact that some must get used to it and these rituals are just an continuation of that.

These traditions have been in practise long before a political entity called India was formed or the word "secular" was inserted into the constitution through a backdoor sometime in the 70s and as such don't erase these practises. That is India for you. Please learn to live with it rather than waste time on giving it ulterior motives and loosing sleep over it.