Indian Defence Minister to visit Moscow next month

[T90TankGuy]

Another visit to buy sub standard equipments from Russia. sigh

there is an old saying " dont open your mouth , if you do , it will remove all doubt "
at least educate your self before posting something as stupid as this.

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------

The most incompetent person in the whole cabinet ?

and you take the award for the most uninformed , on this forum.

 

[danger007]

We can call this visit, "IMMIDIATE REPORT/CLARIFICATION TO BOSS", probably India's will to join NATO's missile defense shield will be hot topic in this visit. It’s Hard to believe that he is coming for military purchases because there are projects already running in sequences.

@ DV RULES, i can see your hatred on INDIA. INDIA is not like Pakistan..by the way, we know how you get WOT budget....

 

[Infinity]

The most incompetent person in the whole cabinet ?

What is your Gauge to measure competency..............

 

[Jon Snow]

we also had two mishap with MKI and don't forget about our helis ..

Russian either delivers sub standard equipment or sell at the twice rate and delaying is their forte and add incompetency of MOD

2 crashes in over 10 years - thats actually a very good safety record even for western aircraft.
the mig 21s are too old to fly - thats why they crash - look at the other mig in the iaf inventory(one which still has some life in it), the mig 29 , it has a safety record better than the f 16 of pakistan despite iaf flying more hours than the paf.

 

[Executioner]

We don't have do anything just increase our defense budget.

 

[praful]

there is an old saying " dont open your mouth , if you do , it will remove all doubt "
at least educate your self before posting something as stupid as this.

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------



and you take the award for the most uninformed , on this forum.

This is what I have posted few days back

If you analyse his work you would come to know that he has harmed immensely

-- Buying c-17 at twice the rate

-- IA is regularly returning sanctioned money back to Gov. Last year they returned 5000 cr.

-- Procurement policy is in total mess. No major procurement in last 20 years for IA.

-- North eastern policy is in total mess

-- MCRA still is nowhere

-- Bureaucracy is still rampant

--Australia has got the C_17 for half the price -- US is milking us in a big way

--Mirage upgrade deal is a total blunder

--They have to returned money because they are not able to procure material which is very urgent

--Infra don't u know what happened in ladhak ?

--I am hearing about MCRA when i was in school and when will the procurement will start ?

--I really hate this indigenous crap, We recently had a snag in agni-2 which we inducted long back. and about LCA Tejas One should not open his mouth-- I recently met a engineer from NAL he told me the story behind LCA

--Buying substandard product from russian

-- Offset policy is total eye wash

---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

2 crashes in over 10 years - thats actually a very good safety record even for western aircraft.
the mig 21s are too old to fly - thats why they crash - look at the other mig in the iaf inventory(one which still has some life in it), the mig 29 , it has a safety record better than the f 16 of pakistan despite iaf flying more hours than the paf.

there is lot of concerned has been raised by Armed forces regarding the spare parts and sub standard quality of equipments russian have provided to us. There is no argument about it. And you smartly dodge the last two lines .

 

[Jon Snow]

This is what I have posted few days back




---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------



there is lot of concerned has been raised by Armed forces regarding the spare parts and sub standard quality of equipments russian have provided to us. There is no argument about it. And you smartly dodge the last two lines .

Well as for delays - they happen everywhere.... tell me the last time when HAL or any indian shipyard did anything on time??? and please define the term sub standard - how is russian equipment substandard??
now we come to price - Name just one other country that can provide us with an aircraft carrier for 1.6 billion dollars.... or 272 planes of the mki standard at 11 billion dollars... russian equipment is known to be cheap.

 

[praful]

Well as for delays - they happen everywhere.... tell me the last time when HAL or any indian shipyard did anything on time??? and please define the term sub standard - how is russian equipment substandard??
now we come to price - Name just one other country that can provide us with an aircraft carrier for 1.6 billion dollars.... or 272 planes of the mki standard at 11 billion dollars... russian equipment is known to be cheap.

yeah and we have u pay a hefty price for their maintenance and upgrades that is why in MCRA we are considering life cycle cost of the planes not the purchase price.

who told you price of aircraft carrier is 1.6 billions it is a 2.3 billion dollars deal which was initially signed for 900 mn dollars. And even after paying premium we are far from it. This is what I am explaining.

HAL and others are in the process of abosrption of technology they will delivers once they develop the capacity and capability but russian already have this so it is very disappointing. They are milking us in a very big way like french did.

 

[Jon Snow]

yeah and we have u pay a hefty price for their maintenance and upgrades that is why in MCRA we are considering life cycle cost of the planes not the purchase price.

who told you price of aircraft carrier is 1.6 billions it is a 2.3 billion dollars deal which was initially signed for 900 mn dollars. And even after paying premium we are far from it. This is what I am explaining.

HAL and others are in the process of abosrption of technology they will delivers once they develop the capacity and capability but russian already have this so it is very disappointing. They are milking us in a very big way like french did.

the over all cost of the whole gorshkov package is 2.4 billion but that includes the mig 29ks as well - i was just talking about the ship.
maybe we have to pay a high price for maintenance (dont really have any idea about this)but definitely not for upgrades - look at the mig 29 upgrade - all said and done at 900 mill for 70 fighters- that's damn cheap.

 

[praful]

the over all cost of the whole gorshkov package is 2.4 billion but that includes the mig 29ks as well - i was just talking about the ship.
maybe we have to pay a high price for maintenance (dont really have any idea about this)but definitely not for upgrades - look at the mig 29 upgrade - all said and done at 900 mill for 70 fighters- that's damn cheap.

\
they are not cheap because it will done in India which require another set of investment from India -- In simple term this is just a license fee.

 

[Jon Snow]

\
they are not cheap because it will done in India which require another set of investment from India -- In simple term this is just a license fee.

so will the mirage 2000 upgrade be done in india but that costs 2.4 billion for just 50 fighters- also the first 6 mig 29s will be upgraded in Russia and the rest in india by HAL - this is almost exactly what will happen in the mirage deal.

Russia may deliver first upgraded MiG to India in 2011 | Defense | RIA Novosti

Russia could deliver the first modernized MiG-29 fighter jet to India as early as in 2011, the head of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) said on Wednesday.
India signed a $960 million contract with Russia in 2008 to upgrade its five squadrons of 69 MiG-29 fighters, which have been in service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) since mid-1980s.
"The first upgraded plane, I think, will be delivered in 2011," Mikhail Pogosyan said on the sidelines of the Aero India 2011 air show, which opened on Wednesday in Bangalore.
"The whole upgrade program will be carried out on schedule agreed with the Indian side, and it will take several years to implement it," Pogosyan said.
The upgrades include a new avionics kit, with the N-109 radar being replaced by a Phazatron Zhuk-M radar. The aircraft is also being equipped to enhance beyond-visual-range combat ability and for air-to-air refueling to increase flying time.
The upgraded aircraft will be armed with sophisticated air-to-air missiles, high-accuracy air-to-ground missiles and 'smart aerial' bombs.
In 2007, Russia also sold India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) a license to manufacture 120 RD-33 series 3 turbojet engines for the upgrade.
The first six aircraft are being upgraded in Russia while the remaining 63 will be refitted at the HAL facility in India.

 

[praful]

so will the mirage 2000 upgrade be done in india but that costs 2.4 billion for just 50 fighters- also the first 6 mig 29s will be upgraded in Russia and the rest in india by HAL - this is almost exactly what will happen in the mirage deal.

Russia may deliver first upgraded MiG to India in 2011 | Defense | RIA Novosti


Russia could deliver the first modernized MiG-29 fighter jet to India as early as in 2011, the head of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) said on Wednesday.
India signed a $960 million contract with Russia in 2008 to upgrade its five squadrons of 69 MiG-29 fighters, which have been in service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) since mid-1980s.
"The first upgraded plane, I think, will be delivered in 2011," Mikhail Pogosyan said on the sidelines of the Aero India 2011 air show, which opened on Wednesday in Bangalore.
"The whole upgrade program will be carried out on schedule agreed with the Indian side, and it will take several years to implement it," Pogosyan said.
The upgrades include a new avionics kit, with the N-109 radar being replaced by a Phazatron Zhuk-M radar. The aircraft is also being equipped to enhance beyond-visual-range combat ability and for air-to-air refueling to increase flying time.
The upgraded aircraft will be armed with sophisticated air-to-air missiles, high-accuracy air-to-ground missiles and 'smart aerial' bombs.
In 2007, Russia also sold India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) a license to manufacture 120 RD-33 series 3 turbojet engines for the upgrade.
The first six aircraft are being upgraded in Russia while the remaining 63 will be refitted at the HAL facility in India.

isn't that the point I made before -- French and russians are milking us in a big way ? And this add another feather on the cap of "Incompetent Anthony"

 

[Jon Snow]

isn't that the point I made before -- French and russians are milking us in a big way ? And this add another feather on the cap of "Incompetent Anthony"

your point was that the deal we made for upgrading the migs was not cheap - unfortunately you seem to not understand the meaning of the word. you are looking at the intrinsic value ( even then this cost is believable as we will have to source everything we upgrade from russia) - while not realizing that cost is dependent on a lot of factors , not just how much that thing is worth -for example nike boots come for rs 10000 - are they really that good so as to justify the cost?? of course not. but if you find a shop which is giving you nike boots for 4000 instead of that 10000 you call it cheap - even tough intrinsic value of thise boots is still not 4000 but because in comparison you gain 6000. thats why I say that the mig 29 upgrade is cheap.

 

[praful]

your point was that the deal we made for upgrading the migs was not cheap - unfortunately you seem to not understand the meaning of the word. you are looking at the intrinsic value ( even then this cost is believable as we will have to source everything we upgrade from russia) - while not realizing that cost is dependent on a lot of factors , not just how much that thing is worth -for example nike boots come for rs 10000 - are they really that good so as to justify the cost?? of course not. but if you find a shop which is giving you nike boots for 4000 instead of that 10000 you call it cheap - even tough intrinsic value of thise boots is still not 4000 but because in comparison you gain 6000. thats why I say that the mig 29 upgrade is cheap.

so what is your point ? russian are milking us less than french ? u should compare that with CHina and pakistan. anthony is big mess.

 

[Jon Snow]

so what is your point ? russian are milking us less than french ? u should compare that with CHina and pakistan. anthony is big mess.

Exactly... they milk us the least.
Why would you want to compare india to pakistan?? Yes china gives pakistan equipment at a very cheap price and on soft loans but they can afford to, when the USSR was still kickin it also used to do the same for india - now russia is no longer in a position to be giving away its millitary hardware nor is india in a position where it cant afford to buy the hardware. anyways china needs pakistan to act as its proxy against india - the day comes when the chinese no longer need pakistan they'll be milking them double fast.