Featured Indian Army To Be Equipped With A Mix Of Russian AK-203s & American Sig Sauer Rifles

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What happened to the IMI Tavor?

And wasn't there some other proposal (or contract) with the Israelis on developing small arms for the Indian military?

On another note, I think we've discovered how India plans to 'isolate' Pakistan - they'll just buy something from everyone to make sure no one sells to Pakistan!

 

[IMARV]

What happened to the IMI Tavor?

And wasn't there some other proposal (or contract) with the Israelis on developing small arms for the Indian military?

On another note, I think we've discovered how India plans to 'isolate' Pakistan - they'll just buy something from everyone to make sure no one sells to Pakistan!

Or it could be India deciding to go with 7.62 * 39 mm cartridge rather than 5.56 * 45 mm NATO (Insas used this bore).

 

[Yasser76]

What happened to the IMI Tavor?

And wasn't there some other proposal (or contract) with the Israelis on developing small arms for the Indian military?

On another note, I think we've discovered how India plans to 'isolate' Pakistan - they'll just buy something from everyone to make sure no one sells to Pakistan!

I do not think even Indians can tell you the strategy or thought process behind all this, but great for Pakistan, when they supply their units they will have to bring two sets of spares and two types of ammo. It's like they want to compete with IAF over the number of different types of systems.

Right now in India infantry units

Tavor
AK
Sig
INSAS
Sterling SMG

Pak Infantry

G-3
Type 56

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

This shows why Indian military doctrine is a total joke. They can't even get interoperable rifles, imagine their mechanized, air and naval forces.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

I do not think even Indians can tell you the strategy or thought process behind all this, but great for Pakistan, when they supply their units they will have to bring two sets of spares and two types of ammo. It's like they want to compete with IAF over the number of different types of systems.

Right now in India infantry units

Tavor
AK
Sig
INSAS
Sterling SMG

Pak Infantry

G-3
Type 56

Indian infantry doesn’t use Tavors, they are for Special Forces use only, plus AK-47s are for forward deployed units like in LoC and RR units rest all are using INSAS.

In future it will be only AK-203, SIPiG-716i and Car-816

ps. Pak army uses MP5 as a CQB weapon.

 

[Yasser76]

Indian infantry doesn’t use Tavors, they are for Special Forces use only, plus AK-47s are for forward deployed units like in LoC and RR units rest all are using INSAS.

In future it will be only AK-203, SIPiG-716i and Car-816

ps. Pak army uses MP5 as a CQB weapon.

Pak Army no longer uses MP5 as CQB, stopped using long time ago. Please also be realistic, INSAS is in use in such heavy numbers it will not be completely replaced for at least a decade.

Sticking to facts will strengthen any argument you make as opposed to twisting them all the time in order to show India in a good light...

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Pak Army no longer uses MP5 as CQB, stopped using long time ago. Please also be realistic, INSAS is in use in such heavy numbers it will not be completely replaced for at least a decade.

Sticking to facts will strengthen any argument you make as opposed to twisting them all the time in order to show India in a good light...

Nah brother they will be replaced and are being phased out, 72500 are replaced with SiG-716 and next year 72500 more will be replaced by SiG-716.

Pak Army no longer uses MP5 as CQB, stopped using long time ago. Please also be realistic, INSAS is in use in such heavy numbers it will not be completely replaced for at least a decade.

AK-203’s first batch will be made in Russia and the others in India simultaneously so these will replace INSAS immediately

and after that 93500 Car-816 carbines will replace INSAS immediately.

Sticking to facts will strengthen any argument you make as opposed to twisting them all the time in order to show India in a good light...


I said this not to show pakistan below or something like that.
I said this because Pakistan army has not selected the final weapon to be procured so currently I can’t comment on that.

We have signed the deals for SiGs and The AKs and by this year we will place the order for the carbines.

whereas SCAR-H was the winner of competition for 7.62 NATO rifles but its pretty damn expensive that even America rejected it for Infantry and even Belgium the OEM of the gun doesn’t have it as standard issue of infantry so no gun has been ordered or selected finally in 7.62 NATO round.

plus no assault rifle has been selected by Pakistan army to be finally procured, they only declared AK-103 as the winner of the competition but no deal or contract or even EOI was issued to the OEM. So currently I assume Pak army will stick to these only as no contracts are signed

plus INSAS won’t be phased out completely in a few years as these are just a fraction of Indian army’s requirements. Indian army has a requirement as recently told as 10.5 lakh assault rifles, 3.5 lakh battle rifles and 4 lakh carbines more in total as a sizeable chunk of the AK-203 will go to Airforce, Navy, CRPF, BSF, ITBP, NSG, CISF, AR, SFF also.

and all the Active and reserve personnel will be armed by these weapons.

same will be for SiG and CARs but they won’t be issued to CAPFs but a small chunk will go to Indian Navy and Indian Airforce Along With AR and SFF.

 

[Yasser76]

Nah brother they will be replaced and are being phased out, 72500 are replaced with SiG-716 and next year 72500 more will be replaced by SiG-716.
View attachment 681296

AK-203’s first batch will be made in Russia and the others in India simultaneously so these will replace INSAS immediately
View attachment 681297and after that 93500 Car-816 carbines will replace INSAS immediately.
View attachment 681298

Sticking to facts will strengthen any argument you make as opposed to twisting them all the time in order to show India in a good light...


I said this not to show pakistan below or something like that.
I said this because Pakistan army has not selected the final weapon to be procured so currently I can’t comment on that.

We have signed the deals for SiGs and The AKs and by this year we will place the order for the carbines.

whereas SCAR-H was the winner of competition for 7.62 NATO rifles but its pretty damn expensive that even America rejected it for Infantry and even Belgium the OEM of the gun doesn’t have it as standard issue of infantry so no gun has been ordered or selected finally in 7.62 NATO round.

plus no assault rifle has been selected by Pakistan army to be finally procured, they only declared AK-103 as the winner of the competition but no deal or contract or even EOI was issued to the OEM. So currently I assume Pak army will stick to these only as no contracts are signed

plus INSAS won’t be phased out completely in a few years as these are just a fraction of Indian army’s requirements. Indian army has a requirement as recently told as 10.5 lakh assault rifles, 3.5 lakh battle rifles and 4 lakh carbines more in total as a sizeable chunk of the AK-203 will go to Airforce, Navy, CRPF, BSF, ITBP, NSG, CISF, AR, SFF also.

and all the Active and reserve personnel will be armed by these weapons.

same will be for SiG and CARs but they won’t be issued to CAPFs but a small chunk will go to Indian Navy and Indian Airforce Along With AR and SFF.

Making a long post to hide losing the debate will not help you. You claimed no INSAS in future. You are wrong, for at least next 10 years they will be in service.

Getting back to the point of the debate. India can take pride in the fact that it will be the only Army in the world that will have at least 4 different types of frontline rifles for it's infantry. Insane state of affairs, absolutely insane. This will also have severe implications for training and also the quality of Indian marksmenship.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Making a long post to hide losing the debate will not help you. You claimed no INSAS in future. You are wrong, for at least next 10 years they will be in service.

Getting back to the point of the debate. India can take pride in the fact that it will be the only Army in the world that will have at least 4 different types of frontline rifles for it's infantry. Insane state of affairs, absolutely insane. This will also have severe implications for training and also the quality of Indian marksmenship.

I never said that it will be replace immediately, I said it will be a long term plan and obviously nothing gets replaced in a year or two.

not 4 but 3 and every army has it,

US army uses M16 as Standard assault rifle, M4A1 as a carbine and MK16/17 as battle rifle so what’s the big deal?

Russians use so many different kinds of weapons, who stops them?

just because your army doesn’t have any carbine requirements doesn’t mean others also don’t have.
And won’t effect training, we have been using Kalashnikovs for years and
SiG-716 and CAR-816 are AR Pattern rifles so a better and newer training will be given.

if Pak army selects new guns of the long pending tender then your army will also have to receive newer training, what’s new in that. Once you replace your rifle after decades of use obviously you select new rifles, its natural.

once we both used bolt action guns now automatic guns, so youR “training issues” argument if fitted here during pak army replacing their bolt action rifles to G3 few decades back, then by your logic pak army should’ve been using those bolt action guns but again such things are useless to talk.

you replace a rifle, you get a new one, so you train on new ones its natural everywhere on Earth.


Russians use so many different kinds of weapons, who stops them?

 

[Yasser76]

I never said that it will be replace immediately, I said it will be a long term plan and obviously nothing gets replaced in a year or two.

not 4 but 3 and every army has it,

US army uses M16 as Standard assault rifle, M4A1 as a carbine and MK16/17 as battle rifle so what’s the big deal?

Russians use so many different kinds of weapons, who stops them?

just because your army doesn’t have any carbine requirements doesn’t mean others also don’t have.
And won’t effect training, we have been using Kalashnikovs for years and
SiG-716 and CAR-816 are AR Pattern rifles so a better and newer training will be given.

if Pak army selects new guns of the long pending tender then your army will also have to receive newer training, what’s new in that. Once you replace your rifle after decades of use obviously you select new rifles, its natural.

once we both used bolt action guns now automatic guns, so youR “training issues” argument if fitted here during pak army replacing their bolt action rifles to G3 few decades back, then by your logic pak army should’ve been using those bolt action guns but again such things are useless to talk.

you replace a rifle, you get a new one, so you train on new ones its natural everywhere on Earth.


Russians use so many different kinds of weapons, who stops them?

No Army uses 4 rifles for it's standard infantry weapon. No Army in the world other than India. Fact that Sig will only be given to 150k front line troops means everytime those front line troops are replaced the new troops will need to be trained on new rifles. You are capable of understanding the implications of that right?

 

[HostileInsurgent]

No Army uses 4 rifles for it's standard infantry weapon. No Army in the world other than India. Fact that Sig will only be given to 150k front line troops means everytime those front line troops are replaced the new troops will need to be trained on new rifles. You are capable of understanding the implications of that right?

There are 3 rifles, I can say the same for you, you use AK-47s and G3s if a soldier is trained on AK-47 is replaced then G3 Trained soldier will have to be trained for it.

Plus all our soldiers are already trained with the AK-47 so AK-203 is nothing news and both CAR-816 and SiG-716 both are AR Pattern rifles so not an issue,

as I told.

USA uses M16, M4 and MK16/17 as their standard issue for all roles.
Russia uses tonnes of assault rifles for Infantry.

Israel uses Tavor-7, X-95, Galil and many others as standard.

AK-203 is standard assault rifle, CAR-816 is standard carbine, SIG-716 is standard battle rifle.

 

[Yasser76]

There are 3 rifles, I can say the same for you, you use AK-47s and G3s if a soldier is trained on AK-47 is replaced then G3 Trained soldier will have to be trained for it.

Plus all our soldiers are already trained with the AK-47 so AK-203 is nothing news and both CAR-816 and SiG-716 both are AR Pattern rifles so not an issue,

as I told.

USA uses M16, M4 and MK16/17 as their standard issue for all roles.
Russia uses tonnes of assault rifles for Infantry.

Israel uses Tavor-7, X-95, Galil and many others as standard.

AK-203 is standard assault rifle, CAR-816 is standard carbine, SIG-716 is standard battle rifle.

Again, you think by spurting out lots of writing you are delibertaley trying to confuse issue. Yes, Pak Mil uses G-3 and Type 56. That is it, mist soldiers trained on both.

US uses two types max, but M-16 in very limited numbers.

AK-47 and AK-203 have host of differences, that or for some reason India is now setting up a manufacturing plant to churn out a 70 year old rifle design.

Tell me on thing then, soldier that is posted to front line who had been using INSAS will automatically become expert with Sig? Real life does not work like that. In essence you will now have front line soldiers with new fancy rifles they will not know how to fully use properly, as they will be forced to hand them back and revert to INSAS/AK afterwards.

Realise how insane this set up is?

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Again, you think by spurting out lots of writing you are delibertaley trying to confuse issue. Yes, Pak Mil uses G-3 and Type 56. That is it, mist soldiers trained on both.

US uses two types max, but M-16 in very limited numbers.

AK-47 and AK-203 have host of differences, that or for some reason India is now setting up a manufacturing plant to churn out a 70 year old rifle design.

Tell me on thing then, soldier that is posted to front line who had been using INSAS will automatically become expert with Sig? Real life does not work like that. In essence you will now have front line soldiers with new fancy rifles they will not know how to fully use properly, as they will be forced to hand them back and revert to INSAS/AK afterwards.

Realise how insane this set up is?

Thats what I said, you replace weapons after a time, you have to do it. Every firearm as a lifespan, obviously a new gun will require training. Consider your army selects CZ BREN and SCAR-H will your soldiers trained on AK-47s and G3s automatically be able to use it? No! It will take time and it has to be done whats so special about this issue? Its normal.

 

[Yasser76]

Thats what I said, you replace weapons after a time, you have to do it. Every firearm as a lifespan, obviously a new gun will require training. Consider your army selects CZ BREN and SCAR-H will your soldiers trained on AK-47s and G3s automatically be able to use it? No! It will take time and it has to be done whats so special about this issue? Its normal.

No, you are missing the point, either deliberately or because you do nit understand.

India has imported Sig for just 150,000 front line troops. These will often get replaced by new troops every 6 months or a year (depending on length of combat tour), the new troops will than have to retain on Sig, than afterwards give it back again.

Pakistani troops keep the same weapons, and once they change over will keep the new weapon for life.

Very big difference.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

No, you are missing the point, either deliberately or because you do nit understand.

India has imported Sig for just 150,000 front line troops. These will often get replaced by new troops every 6 months or a year (depending on length of combat tour), the new troops will than have to retain on Sig, than afterwards give it back again.

Pakistani troops keep the same weapons, and once they change over will keep the new weapon for life.

Very big difference.

This is initial order, considering India has requirement of 3.5 lakh battle rifles, maybe this can reach 3.5 lakh. Plus its no rocket science. Indian and Pakistani armies aren’t fool to purchase different cal weapons.


Plus how much of a difference In Training? AK-203 is like a normal AK-47 in terms of handling and CAR-816 and SiG-716 are both AR Pattern rifles so no issues in training.