Indian Army shot Pakistani officers, after calling flag meeting

[ares]

Only two Pakistani soldiers have died who are buried with full military honors

Well BBC, Reuters, Huftington post ..infact most of the respected international media groups are saying 4 Pakistani soldiers have been killed..hardly anyone is quoting Pakistan's version of events.

Infact during last bout of cease fire violations in October..Pakisitani media claimed, that No Pakistani soldiers had died, but now couple of months later..they accept 3 rangers were killed.
"
Brig Waseem revealed that eleven Pakistani citizens including three Jawans of the Chenab Rangers were killed and more than 38 people were injured seriously by unprovoked intensified heavy shelling on Sialkot border villages by Indian BSF during the month of October "

2014. Govt urged to boldly reply to Indian madness

 

[karan.1970]

Ab accha hai ya bura, khayal to aapka hi hai..

Dil kay behlanay ko ghalib yeah khayal accha hai....

still invalid

failed again

Well BBC, Reuters, Huftington post ..infact most of the respected international media groups are saying 4 Pakistani soldiers have been killed..hardly anyone is quoting Pakistan's version of events.

Infact during last bout of cease fire violations in October..Pakisitani media claimed, that No Pakistani soldiers had died, but now couple of months later..they accept 3 rangers were killed.
"
Brig Waseem revealed that eleven Pakistani citizens including three Jawans of the Chenab Rangers were killed and more than 38 people were injured seriously by unprovoked intensified heavy shelling on Sialkot border villages by Indian BSF during the month of October "

2014. Govt urged to boldly reply to Indian madness

Pakistani establishment does this a lot... Kind of false bravado. Even if you see the news articles about ZeA, very rare mention of Sec forces casualties, but every month the total number keeps climbing.

Baseless, Says India on Pakistan's Allegations over Cross-Border Firing

India has rejected as baseless allegations made in a letter to External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj, by Pakistan's Foreign Affairs Adviser Sartaj Aziz, over cross-border firing earlier this week.

In the letter, Pakistan had alleged that India killed two Pakistani Rangers in cold blood after calling them for a meeting on the International Border on December 31.

In a statement, Pakistan's Foreign Office said Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has condemned the incident and Mr Aziz has lodged a strong protest through the letter, calling for an immediate investigation.

"On December 31, 2014, the Indian Border Security Force troops invited the personnel of the Punjab Rangers for a flag meeting, but greeted the unsuspecting soldiers with a volley of unprovoked fire, causing severe injuries to two soldiers. The unabated Indian firing denied timely medical attention to the wounded soldiers, who succumbed to their injuries," claimed a press release issued by the Pakistan Foreign Office.

The Indian Foreign Ministry has strongly denied the accusation, saying this had already been conveyed at a meeting in Islamabad between Pakistan's Foreign Secretary and India's High Commissioner.

 

[Matrixx]

Please send us the proof ... we will look in to it....thank you and get lost if you dont have any proof

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No it is not. Unless she calls out the flag meeting ambush, there is no reason to read anything into it except the standard demand put in with a purpose of accusing India for starting the skirmish and not allowing the injured to be evacuated during the firing. Chenab rangers and FO were not on the same page at all. You can read into that statement basis your desire to read something into it, but she clearly avoided any mention of a flag meeting.
Thats a weird line of reasoning. The transcript of the statement is public information published in MoFA site which clearly shows Tribune misquoting your spokesman. The burden of denial is not on MoFA at all. Tribune's story is not matching with official Pakistani govt's version. Now if you want to give more credibility to tribune than the official statements of Pakistan govt, that's your prerogative.
No we dont. Since official govt papers say otherwise. Unless MoFA changes the transcript and admits there was an error in the previous transcript, its a fake news by Tribune. Surprisingly there was not a single question about this from the assembled media apart from one about ceasefire violations.
No they don't. Demand for investigation is for ceasefire violations as per the transcript and nothing else. Unless MoFA amends the transcript, linking those words with what Chenab rangers said is simply fanciful kite flying.

All the above on your part was for naught - Sartaj Aziz is being quoted today as reiterating the account of the incident provided by the Chenab Rangers, so now please stop clutching at straws to discredit the Pakistani account.

Adviser to the Prime Minister on National Security and Foreign Affairs, Sartaj Aziz on Friday addressed a letter to the India’s Minister of External Affairs, Shushma Swaraj, to protest the killing of two soldiers of the Punjab Rangers in Zafarwal Sector.

On December 31, 2014, the Indian Border Security Force (BSF) troops invited the personnel of Punjab Rangers for a flag meeting. However, the unsuspecting soldiers were greeted with a volley of unprovoked fire, causing severe injuries to two soldiers who later died.

In the letter, which has been released to media, the adviser condemned the action of the BSF and lodged a strong protest with the Indian government.

He called for an immediate investigation into the incident and urged bringing the perpetrators to account.

The letter underlined: “The ambush of soldiers would undermine mechanisms established by the two countries to ensure peace and tranquillity along the Line of Control (LoC) and the Working Boundary (WB).”

The adviser’s letter was handed over to the Indian high commissioner by the foreign secretary.

Expressing concern at the way the incident had taken place, the foreign secretary underlined that the incident was not only a contravention to the rules of engagement, but also amounted to breach of trust of Pakistani soldiers in these mechanisms.

The foreign secretary also impressed upon the Indian high commissioner that it was not in Pakistan’s interest to increase tension on the LoC and WB, adding, “Our law enforcement agencies and armed forces were fully engaged in combating terrorism and militancy across the country.”

The Indian insinuations that Pakistan supported infiltration attempts were, therefore, far removed from reality, Foreign Secretary Aizaz Chaudhry remarked.

The Indian envoy was told that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif as well as the entire nation took serious notice of the condemnable Indian aggression and expressed their shock and anger at the killing of the soldiers in cold blood.

Keeping in view the seriousness of the incident, the foreign secretary also briefed the Heads of the Missions of P-5 countries and the EU in Islamabad and emphasised the importance of maintaining ceasefire on the LoC and WB.

He stressed the urgency of the international community playing its role in counselling India to refrain from actions that threaten peace and stability in the region.
Pakistan lodges protest with India against killing of Rangers personnel - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

By your logic, Here's Pakistani COAS openly asking his troops to commit war crimes but keeping them at a low scale

https://www.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-press_release&date=2009/5/13

Here's another COAS apologizing for war crimes

COAS Apologizes for Tirah Valley Collateral Damage | Page 2

Read both again - in the first the COAS is calling for the troops to avoid/minimize collateral damage, even if it entails 'risking the lives of soldiers', and in the second he is apologizing for the collateral damage that occurred, in error. The COAS/Pak Military made no threat to 'inflict collateral damage on the Tribes because of their support for the TTP'. The BSF statement on the other hand is one in which the BSF is threatening to deliberately inflict collateral damage as a punitive 'response'. There is no comparison between the two.

The first is a legitimate statement completely in accordance with international laws on armed conflict, the second (by the BSF) is an outright declaration of intent to commit War Crimes.

Wrong again. The Simla agreement ratifying the charter solidifies the non binding nature of the Kashmir resolution. and after not following the binding resolution(both on financial transactions and his ability to frrely travel within Pakistan) on Hafiz Saeed & JuD by the same UNSC, Pakistan has no standing to demand any thing from India regarding any resolution.

There is nothing in the UN Charter that declares the UN Resolutions on Kashmir to be 'non-binding'. The only distinction between Chapter VI and Chapter VII resolutions is the ability of the UNSC to authorize enforcement actions. A large number of international treaties (including Simla, the Indus Water Treaty etc) do not have any 'enforcement mechanisms' built in that can coerce a State to abide by their treaty obligations, so the UN Resolutions on Kashmir are no different from any other international treaty or commitment India has entered into. India is simply willfully choosing to violate the commitments her government made to implement the UNSC Resolutions per her obligations under the UN Charter.

On the subject of Hafiz Saeed, India, or other nations, are free to raise any issues (in the UN) they see regarding Pakistan's implementation of the UN Sanctions on HS under the UN Charter. Pakistan has not refused to implement hose resolutions - Pakistan claims that the implementation actions it has carried out are in accordance Pakistani obligations under the UN Charter, a stance completely counter to the one taken by the Indian Government on the UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir, whereby India refuses outright to even consider implementing the resolutions.

Well BBC, Reuters, Huftington post ..infact most of the respected international media groups are saying 4 Pakistani soldiers have been killed..hardly anyone is quoting Pakistan's version of events.

Infact during last bout of cease fire violations in October..Pakisitani media claimed, that No Pakistani soldiers had died, but now couple of months later..they accept 3 rangers were killed.
"
Brig Waseem revealed that eleven Pakistani citizens including three Jawans of the Chenab Rangers were killed and more than 38 people were injured seriously by unprovoked intensified heavy shelling on Sialkot border villages by Indian BSF during the month of October "

2014. Govt urged to boldly reply to Indian madness

Complete and utter BS. At least do a simple google search before plastering what ends up being blatant lies. Here is an account from the Dawn in October that lists the death of a Ranger as a result of Indian ceasefire violations:

A Pakistani military official said a member of the paramilitary Rangers was killed “due to unprovoked firing by Indian Border Security forces” near the eastern city of Sialkot.
Rangers' official killed by Indian firing near Sialkot - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[ares]

Complete and utter BS. At least do a simple google search before plastering what ends up being blatant lies. Here is an account from the Dawn in October that lists the death of a Ranger as a result of Indian ceasefire violations:

A Pakistani military official said a member of the paramilitary Rangers was killed “due to unprovoked firing by Indian Border Security forces” near the eastern city of Sialkot.
Rangers' official killed by Indian firing near Sialkot - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

What is wrong with you?

Check the date of your news you have quoted.

Rangers' official killed by Indian firing near Sialkot
AFP
Updated Oct 17, 2013 02:15pm

We are talking about flare up in Oct 2014 in which Pakistan consistently maintained, that it did not loose any soldiers.

"However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi’s bravado ups the ante in LoC flare-up – The Express Tribune

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What is wrong with you?

Check the date of your news you have quoted.

Rangers' official killed by Indian firing near Sialkot
AFP
Updated Oct 17, 2013 02:15pm

We are talking about flare up in Oct 2014 in which Pakistan consistently maintained, that it did not loose any soldiers.

"However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi’s bravado ups the ante in LoC flare-up – The Express Tribune

Point being that the Pakistani media does not 'hide' casualties that occur during clashes with India.

 

[ares]

Point being that the Pakistani media does not 'hide' casualties that occur during clashes with India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Indian firing at LoC kills Pakistani soldier – The Express Tribune


Again, do a basic google search before spouting off the usual Indian media nonsense. Brainwashing only works if you let it, and too many Indian posters appear to be letting their media brainwash them with hatefilled and poisonous anti-Pakistan propaganda.

The Pakistani media has been consistently publishing accounts of casualties from military exchanges with India.

 

[ares]

Indian firing at LoC kills Pakistani soldier – The Express Tribune


Again, do some basic googling before spouting off the usual Indian media nonsense. Brainwashing only works if you let it, and too many Indian posters appear to be letting their media brainwash them with hatefilled and poisonous anti-Pakistan propaganda.

It is time you start using common sense, the point made was pertaining to LOC flare up in Oct 2014..in which Pakistan claimed that none of its rangers were killed.(to which I have posted the relevant news also)

I pointed news article from Dec 2014(two months after the incident) claiming Pakistan lost three of its rangers in Oct 2014 flare up.

There is no point bringing news of Pakistan admitting to a ranger casualty in Oct 2013 or Nov 2014, the incident being discussed was Oct 2014.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is time you start using common sense, the point made was pertaining to LOC flare up in Oct 2014..in which Pakistan claimed that none of its rangers were killed.(to which I have posted the relevant news also)

I pointed news article from Dec 2014(two months after the incident) claiming Pakistan lost three of its rangers in Oct 2014 flare up.

There is no point bringing news of Pakistan admitting to ranger casualty from Oct 2013 or Nov 2014, the incident being discussed was Oct 2013.

No, the 'common sense' that needs to be used is on your part - why would the media randomly pick the month of October 2014 to not report military casualties in military exchanges with India, while reporting them in the prior year and also the subsequent months (November & December 2014)?

If you are going to argue some half-arsed 'conspiracy theory' that the 'Pakistani media is not reporting casualties, then the lack of reporting should be consistently missing across the board, not just in one random month, with casualties prior and subsequently being reported. It is also possible that casualties (deaths specifically) are not reported if soldiers are injured and pass away later. The latter would make far more sense, given that the deaths of Pakistani soldiers have been covered in the Pakistani media, than some conspiracy theory that the media is hiding the deaths of soldiers.

 

[ares]

No, the 'common sense' that needs to be used is on your part - why would the media randomly pick the month of October 2014 to not report military casualties in military exchanges with India, while reporting them in the prior year and also the subsequent months (November & December 2014)?

If you are going to argue some half-arsed 'conspiracy theory' that the 'Pakistani media is not reporting casualties, then the lack of reporting should be consistently missing across the board, not just in one random month, with casualties prior and subsequently being reported. It is also possible that casualties (deaths specifically) are not reported if soldiers are injured and pass away later. The latter would make far more sense, given that the deaths of Pakistani soldiers have been covered in the Pakistani media, than some conspiracy theory that the media is hiding the deaths of soldiers.

It is not media, media reports numbers, what they are conveyed by your armed forces.

Your rangers tried to downplay their own casualties from Oct 2014 flare up.. perhaps

1. because it was embarrassing or
2. to avoid Public outrage to not able to inflict similar casualties on the enemy force
3. To demonize BSF, that they are exclusively targeting Pakistani civilians and not the soldiers.

Or how else would explain the discrepancies between the reports published two months apart?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is not media, media reports numbers, what they are conveyed by your armed forces.

Your rangers tried to downplay their own casualties from Oct 2014 flare up.. perhaps

1. because it was embarrassing or
2. to avoid Public outrage to not able to inflict similar casualties on the enemy force
3. To demonize BSF, that they are exclusively targeting Pakistani civilians and not the soldiers.

Or how else would explain the discrepancies between the reports published two months apart?

Then why is an official Ranger's official mentioning those casualties barely 2 months later? Why were casualties after October mentioned? Why not keep hiding them?

Your rationale only makes sense if the 'hiding of casualties' was consistent and across the board.

 

[livingdead]

god.. this is already running for 40 pages. May be time to close this thread.
btw.. could it be a mistake due to wrong color of flag you guys showed up with..

 

[ares]

Then why is an official Ranger's official mentioning those casualties barely 2 months later? Why were casualties after October mentioned? Why not keep hiding them?

Your rationale only makes sense if the 'hiding of casualties' was consistent and across the board.

Because now people have moved on, no body bat an eyelid, when this news came out in december..admit the casualties or don't ..they are inconsequential now, they are just statistics.

But at the time of the flare up things were hot..detailed discussions were being carried on social media and news channels...deep emotion were involved.

One side suffering more casualties than the other has a feeling of emasculation and defeat attached to it.

Conversely can you explain, why rangers did not admit these casualties in October itself?

 

[Matrixx]

you guys watch too many Pakistani movie...