Indian Army shot Pakistani officers, after calling flag meeting

[I <3 PAK ARMY]

#Shame on BSF

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM - I am sure you are aware of the diplomatic crisis this incident could have created, if true.

Not until verified by both sides, and I don't really agree on the diplomatic crisis part. It took the massacre of civilians by the BSF (which it is not openly threatening to do with its comments about collateral damage, which is nothing less than a threat to commit war crimes by the BSF) for Pakistan to take the issue to international forums.

The real impact will be the reduction of faith in the existing mechanisms (such as flag meetings) between the two militaries. The Rangers are going to investigate the call for a flag meeting on their side and expect the BSF to do the same and determine what went wrong.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Steady on dear boy. No one wins in such engagements. More this and more that, are you playing Clash of Clans here?

First of all it is nice to talk to a moderator

Sir Pakistan has tried every trick in the book to capture Kashmir

What has it gained ; As far LOC clashes are concerned India also suffers casualties

But given our superior strength we give it back much hard

Otherwise IF the Indian Army was NOT As strong AS IT IS ; Pakistan Army and
the teeming hordes of Jihadis would have STORMED THE LOC

What prevents Pakistan from STORMING The LOC ; The Indian ARMY

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Indian media has better facts about LoC than Pakistani media, is it because of the Pakistani media blackout at LoC?

There is no 'black out' - the Pakistani media was quoting the Rangers Spokesperson much like Indian media is quoting the BSF spokespersons. In fact, two officially identified BSF spokespersons provided 2 contradictory accounts.

 

[PoKeMon]

Not until verified by both sides, and I don't really agree on the diplomatic crisis part. It took the massacre of civilians by the BSF (which it is not openly threatening to do with its comments about collateral damage, which is nothing less than a threat to commit war crimes by the BSF) for Pakistan to take the issue to international forums.

The real impact will be the reduction of faith in the existing mechanisms (such as flag meetings) between the two militaries. The Rangers are going to investigate the call for a flag meeting on their side and expect the BSF to do the same and determine what went wrong.

You are severely undermining the possible impact then. Its equivalent to calling pakistanis for a peace talk and then shooting them up.

Indians dont even feel like refuting pak "media" claims. Neither PA bother to come up with an official statement.

I am sure pak army would have cried from deep of their epiglottis along with GoP to draw international attention. What a better chance to vilify and shame India.

 

[waz]

First of all it is nice to talk to a moderator

Sir Pakistan has tried every trick in the book to capture Kashmir

What has it gained ; As far LOC clashes are concerned India also suffers casualties

But given our superior strength we give it back much hard

Otherwise IF the Indian Army was As strong AS IT IS ; Pakistan Army and
the teeming hordes of Jihadis would have STORMED THE LOC

What prevents Pakistan from STORMING The LOC ; The Indian ARMY

My friend I'm pleased to meet you, Kashmiri history is a little off-topic.
Both sides like you said take casualties. The Pakistani army is India's equal, you have a stronger airforce and navy.
Of course when India hits back, it will hurt. But that's the nature of the conflict we are in.
As for the whole "teeming jihadis", maybe if this was the late 80's and early 90's, your description would be apt. The rest is obvious.

 

[karan.1970]

If you consider the 2 contradictory BSF accounts as 2 different events over the course of one day, then the total casualty count (per the BSF) would have been the 2+4 of the 2 different events. Since that is not the case, both BSF officials are referring to the same event and providing contradictory accounts of the same event.

Also, what I pointed out was that the Dawn and Tribune reports, while paraphrasing the Rangers Spokesperson's comments, are suggesting that the Rangers were close to the border minutes before the Flag meeting, perhaps on a routine patrol (given that a flag meeting had been called the assumption is that firing from both sides would cease until after the meeting) or perhaps as an advance party prior to higher ranking officials. Either way it was a cowardly act in that an informal code of conduct was violated.

The Rangers not only mentioned the Flag meeting but also provided a specific time at the press conference.

There are no contradictory statements by BSF. There is only one formal statement that says 4 rangers killed . rest were media quotes. Probably while the situation was developing.

And why is there no formal complaint about this from Pakistan to India. Specifically around firing while flag meeting was to happen. The contradictory statements are actually coming from the rangers' side. First it was 2 killed. Now its 4. Multiple news papers reported the Sergeant and the corporal as the senior officials attending the flag meeting accompanied by 3 soldiers who survived the ambush. Which is ridiculous, since the flag meetings dont happen at that level anyway. Your conjecture of these guys being on a patrol is not being supported by any theory in any media or official statement.
An talking of cowardly acts, what about Pakistani cowardly acts of firing on Indian posts to help terrorists sneak in while a cease fire is in effect. ? Isnt that a cowardly act? So even if this is true, there is really no high horse for Pakistan to climb on to.

About the flag meeting, tribune is reporting that the flag meeting was called at 11 AM by India AFTER the incident.

 

[PoKeMon]

There is no 'black out' - the Pakistani media was quoting the Rangers Spokesperson much like Indian media is quoting the BSF spokespersons. In fact, two officially identified BSF spokespersons provided 2 contradictory accounts.

However DAWN relying on Indian media to report "pakistani" casualties is baffling.

Thats shows how much support they are getting from PA sources.

 

[SamantK]

There is no 'black out' - the Pakistani media was quoting the Rangers Spokesperson much like Indian media is quoting the BSF spokespersons. In fact, two officially identified BSF spokespersons provided 2 contradictory accounts.

I was not talking about the quotes but there is no video of dead soldiers being sent back for final rites from Pakistan, where as the one killed on the Indian side was covered by many news channels on the ground.

The news channels were quick to get the reactions from the locals who suffered the fire on their homes. They were quoted as saying new year and we could not sleep the whole night.

 

[PoKeMon]

My friend I'm pleased to meet you, Kashmiri history is a little off-topic.
Both sides like you said take casualties. The Pakistani army is India's equal, you have a stronger airforce and navy.
Of course when India hits back, it will hurt. But that's the nature of the conflict we are in.
As for the whole "teeming jihadis", maybe if this was the late 80's and early 90's, your description would be apt. The rest is obvious.

@waz you are too nice a person to be moderator... since ever.

Please resign.

 

[waz]

@waz you are too nice a person to be moderator... since ever.

Please resign.

Lol, thanks for the compliment my friend.

 

[karan.1970]

@waz you are too nice a person to be moderator... since ever.

Please resign.

I second that.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

My friend I'm pleased to meet you, Kashmiri history is a little off-topic.
Both sides like you said take casualties. The Pakistani army is India's equal, you have a stronger airforce and navy.
Of course when India hits back, it will hurt. But that's the nature of the conflict we are in.
As for the whole "teeming jihadis", maybe if this was the late 80's and early 90's, your description would be apt. The rest is obvious.

I would really request to you to find out the EXACT Size and strength of Indian Army
NOT the available figures on wikipedia or that officially declared by India ; You would be surprised

And that is why Pak Army needs strategic assets

These strategic assets ie Jihadis are still infiltrating LOC ;
and that sparks ALL the clashes on the LOC
what is wrong in my statement

My original statement in reply to @Rafi is true that
since we have more manpower and more firepower we will win every duel

 

[karan.1970]

#Shame on BSF

 

[waz]

I would really request to you to find out the EXACT Size and strength of Indian Army
NOT the available figures on wikipedia or that officially declared by India ; You would be surprised

And that is why Pak Army needs strategic assets

These strategic assets ie Jihadis are still infiltrating LOC ;
and that sparks ALL the clashes on the LOC
what is wrong in my statement

My original statement in reply to @Rafi is true that
since we have more manpower and more firepower we will win every duel

The size and strength issues have been discussed a thousand times here. We are all familiar with them.
I don't like the strategic assets and gradually Pakistan will move away from them hopefully.
No one wins such duels. People die. No land is won, no side backs down and so forth. If you cant to count the folks who have died, as an indicator of which side is "winning', then that is thing I find a waste of time.