Indian Army movement plans leaked to ISI in 2014

[Screambowl]

@Oscar I have to concur with @Jango here. If you are observing news coming out of Rajasthan sector. The cold start and Rapid deployment corps are deployed in Rajasthan. For last 3-4 years they are practicing rapid deployment in annual exercises in Rajasthan sector. Nasr is specifically developed and fielded for this sector. Cold start concept started with Rajasthan Corps and later changed to Rapid deployment of both army and air force assets in 24-48 hours

Any sudden movement by IA 1 corps in Rajasthan would usually bring knee jerk reactions from PA planners.

On a side note. This is the reason Pakistan don't share evidences of Indian involvement in Balochistan and FATA publically because the moles would get exposed

Then how does India share Information? That is not how exactly it is. Electronic Data, Photographs, Intercepts do not reveal any mole'S identity.

I remember Ajit Doval saying.

''For a terror strike, Recruited from J&K, Trained in Quetta, PLanned in Karachi, entered Via Bangladesh and what happens in Hyderabad is just a manifestation of the crime, there is no evidence there , where is the evidence? It is In the periphery of the Country, outside.''

Under such condition, it is the movement which is tapped based on just mere suspicion. And With technical assistance from MI. And similar is the modus operandi of Pakistan. But Pakistan has strong laws which allows military to interrogate the culprit and take out all necessary information.

 

[Bratva]

Then how does India share Information? That is not how exactly it is. Electronic Data, Photographs, Intercepts do not reveal any mole'S identity.

I remember Ajit Doval saying.

''For a terror strike, Recruited from J&K, Trained in Quetta, PLanned in Karachi, entered Via Bangladesh and what happens in Hyderabad is just a manifestation of the crime, there is no evidence there , where is the evidence? It is In the periphery of the Country, outside.''

Under such condition, it is the movement which is tapped based on just mere suspicion. And With technical assitance from MI. And similar is the modus operandi of Pakistan.

Just like IA Mole identity was narrowed down due to leakage of electronic data, how could you say Electronic intercepts, photographs would not reveal mole identity in Afghanistan if made public? or if certain Audio intercepts were to be made public, India wouldn't guess which frequency they were intercepted from and change encryption and frequency in which case we lost valuable goldmine of SIGINT and all the hard work done in cracking the frequency channel and have to start from scratch again ?

 

[Screambowl]

Just like IA Mole identity was narrowed down due to leakage of electronic data, how could you say Electronic intercepts, photographs would not reveal mole identity in Afghanistan if made public? or if certain Audio intercepts were to be made public, India wouldnot change encryption and frequency in which case we lost valuable goldmine of SIGINT and have to start from scratch ?

IA mole's cover was blown due to EXACT movement of PA to counter IA deployment before time, which gave a suspicion of possible leak.

The chatter or interception would have later investigated.

Electronic Data, Chatter, Photographs as an evidence not as a measure of prevention. These are two different things.

 

[rockstar08]

Could be a ploy to spread dis information. Happens all the time.

that make more sense to me

 

[Bratva]

IA mole's cover was blown due to EXACT movement of PA to counter IA deployment before time, which gave a suspicion of possible leak.

The chatter or interception would have later investigated.

Electronic Data, Chatter, Photographs as an evidence not as a measure of prevention. These are two different things.

How these are two different things? do you think Indian Intelligence analysts are that dumb they would not be able to pinpoint the source of Electronic data, chatter and of photographs ?

When we say Baloch rebels are using Indian passports, how do you think we get that information? Through Humint obviously. Moles at Afghan airport, Moles within Afghan Intel who facilitate Indian diplomat movements. If we pinpoint the exact baloch rebel leaders who use Indian passports publically, what do you think will happen?

 

[truthseeker2010]

@Oscar I have to concur with @Jango here. If you are observing news coming out of Rajasthan sector. The cold start and Rapid deployment corps are deployed in Rajasthan. For last 3-4 years they are practicing rapid deployment in annual exercises in Rajasthan sector. Nasr is specifically developed and fielded for this sector. Cold start concept started with Rajasthan Corps and later changed to Rapid deployment of both army and air force assets in 24-48 hours

Any sudden movement by IA 1 corps in Rajasthan would usually bring knee jerk reactions from PA planners.

On a side note. This is the reason Pakistan don't share evidences of Indian involvement in Balochistan and FATA publically because the moles would get exposed

sir isn't the armored div of 1 corps based at hisar and pakistan's nearest div at multan isn't pakistan's divisons near to border than india, also if there are corp level movements, can't they be picked up by human intelligence?

you said we are not sharing evidence, at what cost? don't you think we are unable to get international attention because we are not exposing them, and india is as always acting too innocent because of our negligence.

 

[Screambowl]

How these are two different things? do you think Indian Intelligence analysts are that dumb they would not be able to pinpoint the source of Electronic data, chatter and of photograp

Do you think that terrorist and moles are dumb that they will continue to operate on the same frequency all the time? More over, Frequency is not a problem, the problem is encoded message modulated on the carrier wave.

More over, it is known to military world, what frequency is basically used for chatter. If IN ship intercepts Chatter between Karachi and some XYZ vessel , where is the mole involvement?

 

[Bratva]

sir isn't the armored div of 1 corps based at hisar and pakistan's nearest div at multan isn't pakistan's divisons near to border than india, also if there are corp level movements, can't they be picked up by human intelligence?

you said we are not sharing evidence, at what cost? don't you think we are unable to get international attention because we are not exposing them, and india is as always acting too innocent because of our negligence.

The problem is not about picking up Indian movement, Problem is Pakistan corps cant rapidly deploy in 24-48 hours to counter Indian movement. Hence the haste in Pakistani movements exposed the mole. So that if indians try to deploy rapidly, there would be first line of defense against them and PA don't get caught off handedly and meanwhile first line of defence concurrently be reinforced with other PA elements in 48-72 hours

We shared evidences with US. We can't get international attention because beggars can't be the choosers.

Do you think that terrorist and moles are dumb that they will continue to operate on the same frequency all the time? More over, Frequency is not a problem, the problem is encoded message modulated on the carrier wave.

More over, it is known to military world, what frequency is basically used for chatter. If IN ship intercepts Chatter between Karachi and some XYZ vessel , where is the mole involvement?

I think you didn't understood what I meant. Let's say, Indians think they are communicating on a pretty strongly encrypted channel which can't be hacked and would not change the frequency over time. But by sheer luck or a mole who passed the decryption keys, or Pakistan cracked the frequency. Do you think Pakistan would share intercepts publically ?

It's all hypothetical. I'm just giving you a upper view of Pakistan hesitation in laying all the evidences publically. Though we did share with USA .

 

[Screambowl]

I think you didn't understood what I meant. Let's say, Indians think they are communicating on a pretty strongly encrypted channel which can't be hacked and would not change the frequency over time. But by sheer luck or a mole who passed the decryption keys, or Pakistan cracked the frequency. Do you think Pakistan would share intercepts publically ?

It's all hypothetical. I'm just giving you a upper view of Pakistan hesitation in laying all the evidences publically. Though we did share with USA .

YES.

IF Pakistan reacts to any Indian development, which is confidential, Because Indians will come to know that keys have been leaked. This way or the other way Mole will be caught, once investigation starts. So it will better to drop the mole, or expose it. This happens in the spy world.

 

[Bratva]

YES.

IF Pakistan reacts to any Indian development, which is confidential, Because Indians will come to know that keys have been leaked. This way or the other way Mole will be caught, once investigation starts. So it will better to drop the mole, or expose it. This happens in the spy world.

You are mixing up ISI and Pakistan Army reactions. Remember the assassination of Indian MI brigadier in Indian embassy explosion ? That would be the reaction in spy world. If evidences aren't shared publicly. It means it's still a Live pipe.

You could take an example of Indian MI TSD unit. Despite the exposure of such unit in media, officials refused to share the OPS it conducted in Pakistan.

 

[Screambowl]

You are mixing up ISI and Pakistan Army reactions. Remember the assassination of Indian MI brigadier in Indian embassy explosion ? That would be the reaction in spy world. If evidences aren't shared publicly. It means it's still a Live pipe.

You could take an example of Indian MI TSD unit. Despite the exposure of such unit in media, officials refused to share the OPS it conducted in Pakistan.

Evidence is only then not shared Publicly till there is Human intel involved, when info is collected through mole behind the lines.Shared Publicly , when SIGNIT, ELNIT are used depending on the act, not behind enemy line. In case of terror, they are shared. Because terrorist will not use it the same frequency again.

IN Military scenario, no evidences would be shared. And if Shared remains in the periphery of Military.

 

[Bratva]

Evidence is only then not shared Publicly till there is Human intel involved, when info is collected through mole behind the lines.Shared Publicly , when SIGNIT, ELNIT are used depending on the act, not behind enemy line. In case of terror, they are shared. Because terrorist will not use it the same frequency again.

IN Military scenario, no evidences would be shared. And if Shared remains in the periphery of Military.

And it is indian intelligence we are talking about here, not some terror outfit.

 

[Screambowl]

And it is indian intelligence we are talking about here, not some terror outfit.

We need to take every scenario. Because government is answerable to terror strike.

In case of Military espionage or attack one military, you will not see any details of what kind of info leaked , how caught, how intercepted or chatter.

In case of terror strike on civilians, Intelligence, be it MI will be shared depending on the situation and characteristics of the details or evidences. Like ELNIT and SIGNIT collected by Vessel, or Satellite or hacked Pc's sitting in India.

 

[Bratva]

We need to take every scenario. Because government is answerable to terror strike. In case of Military espionage or attack one military, you will not see any details of what kind of info leaked , how caught, how intercepted or chatter.

In case of terror strike on civilians, Intelligence, be it Military will be shared depending on the situation and characteristics of the details or evidences. Like ELNIT and SIGNIT collected by Vessel, or Satellite or hacked Pc's

Indian role is mostly providing funds, weapons, facilities and training through NDS just like Pakistan in 80's. Russian wasn't able to prove Pakistan role but does it mean Pakistan was not involved ?

 

[Screambowl]

Indian role is mostly providing funds, weapons, facilities and training through NDS just like Pakistan in 80's. Russian wasn't able to prove Pakistan role but does it mean Pakistan was not involved ?

But if India does such activities around or in Pakistan, not a single piece of evidence? It is not possible. Even if MI/ISI does not want to share because of an excuse that sources will be exposed. Don't you think, this will invite Indian counter intelligence to investigate about what sources Pakistan is talking about, blaming India?

What will be the use of that source if Pakistan is not able to utilize the information the source is providing?