Indian Anti-Sumabrine Warfare Capabilities

[DaRk WaVe]

Emo, In my openion what u are talking is a possibility like any other as nothing is impossible. We still dont know the choice is german or french, let alone the modifications u suggested.

it has been already tested for short range & i have no doubt sooner or later a longe range under water to air missile will be available

But a more realistic possibility is that Naval Fighters Scramble as soon as they get a glimpse of a P8.
But then P8 too will have escorts.

this will be not feasible for PN, IN air wing is just too good for PN

 

[Kinetic]

U-214 doesn't have IDAS missile but U-212 for German and Italian navies.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

U-214 doesn't have IDAS missile but U-212 for German and Italian navies.

U-214 is a improved U-212

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

 

[jagjitnatt]

U-214 is a improved U-212

YouTube- Pakistan navy's next generation submarine the type-214

U212 / U214 Attack Submarines - Naval Technology

U214 is not an improved U214. It is an export oriented version succeeding the Type 209. It does share some features of U212, U212 is more lethal and powerful.

It is a rumor that people tend to believe because of the higher number that U214 is an improvement over 212.

212 is advanced sub for domestic purposes. U214 is derivative with some special features but not as lethal as U212 and its an export only version.

Read this

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/36119-type-212-vs-type-214-explained.html

 

[S.U.R.B.]

it is almost impossible to miss, all air Bourne targets will have to come very near to surface to detect the stealthy subs like U-214, keeping into consideration that that speed of the Air Bourne platform is not much , it just simply kills the possibility of missing a target

A blue-green LIDAR might get employed at higher altitudes, but then the ability to penetrate thicker layers of waters is hard to achieve.

The P-8A(which the P-8i might get as well) also uses a new Hydro-Carbon Sensor to detect fuel vapors from diesel submarines.Don't know what the effective altitude for the detection of subs by this system.
If the sub is cruising at high speed with diesel propulsion rather than AIP(which is just for silent cruising) .Then it might become a soft target.With Poseidon going high to scan the suspicious area.

what i think IDAS is good enough for slow moving targets. (hellis)
But to state that it might be able to shoot down an Indian MPA is a bit reductive.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

U214 is not an improved U214. It is an export oriented version succeeding the Type 209. It does share some features of U212, U212 is more lethal and powerful.

It is a rumor that people tend to believe because of the higher number that U214 is an improvement over 212.

212 is advanced sub for domestic purposes. U214 is derivative with some special features but not as lethal as U212 and its an export only version.

Read this

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/36119-type-212-vs-type-214-explained.html

Plus the IDAS never being tested from U214....
It's an option for which PN will need to negotiate.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

it is almost impossible to miss, all air Bourne targets will have to come very near to surface to detect the stealthy subs like U-214, keeping into consideration that that speed of the Air Bourne platform is not much , it just simply kills the possibility of missing a target

I must disagree with U here. No the aircrafts like p8 operate from certain height. also they drop sonoboyo into the sea and receive the inputs from . Of course there r other ways too. The missile is ideal for the helo ASW platforms.

 

[Just Yash]

I must disagree with U here. No the aircrafts like p8 operate from certain height. also they drop sonoboyo into the sea and receive the inputs from . Of course there r other ways too. The missile is ideal for the helo ASW platforms.

Even if you are Firing Missile Against slow moving helos form sub then there are every chances that sub will detected by the Heloes or near by War ships because sub have to come vary near to surface Right....

And once detected Slow moving Subs are Sitting Ducks..

It's not Difficult to Fire Missile form Subs.USA ,Russia,Uk. France and many more Countries and doing this form Decades.... But to kill Air born target with Subs doesn't suit the Role of Subs. Subs main role is to remain hidden from every one else and fire to your target and run away form there.........

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Even if you are Firing Missile Against slow moving helos form sub then there are every chances that sub will detected by the Heloes or near by War ships because sub have to come vary near to surface Right....

And once detected Slow moving Subs are Sitting Ducks..

It need not to come that near to the surface to get detected for IDAS.

It's not Difficult to Fire Missile form Subs.USA ,Russia,Uk. France and many more Countries and doing this form Decades.... But to kill Air born target with Subs doesn't suit the Role of Subs. Subs main role is to remain hidden from every one else and fire to your target and run away form there.........

That's why i said IDAS has changed the tide.You got confused i guess. The IDAS system is also the world's first missile which gives submarines the capability to engage air threats, and the first tube-launched missile that does not emerge in a capsule, but is fired directly from the torpedo tubes.If you have based your whole ASW on helis then it's the end of the game for helis......it's a smart missile for last ditch defence.
Since you can upload 4 missiles in a torpedo tube.You can have a second strike option,keeping in mind that it can hit helis of the deck as well.

 

[chachachoudhary]

Firstly IDAS has not yet been repeatedly tested by user navy other than germans against anything like 800+ km/h cruising speed ASW aircrafts. It is primarily designed for helis and ships that come dangerously close to it.

It is expected to be operational for german navy by 2014 onwards.

P-8A and P-8I pack a deadly anti-sub punch. No sub will risk to disclose its presence by firing a wire-guided missile through its torpedo tube at them. The missile again is fiber-optic guided. So, increasing its range will not be a near-future possibility.

 

[Just Yash]

It need not to come that near to the surface to get detected for IDAS.

That's why i said IDAS has changed the tide.You got confused i guess. The IDAS system is also the world's first missile which gives submarines the capability to engage air threats, and the first tube-launched missile that does not emerge in a capsule, but is fired directly from the torpedo tubes.If you have based your whole ASW on helis then it's the end of the game for helis......it's a smart missile for last ditch defence.
Since you can upload 4 missiles in a torpedo tube.You can have a second strike option,keeping in mind that it can hit helis of the deck as well.

I think u don't understand what i want to say........

So let me put it vary simple way.



Our one helo is searching for enemy sub in sea.
Sub some how able to know the position of the moving helos form under sea. OK

Now sub fire it's missile(According to u form torpedo tube) which make noise due to Compress air have to Push the missile our of the Tube...right

This is More then enough noise to pin point location of the Sub.(Vary easily because Helos generally search the sea near by War ships around 80 to 100 km max), then what happen to sub i don't have to describe.

Now i don't understand Why Sub want to give up it's position to just shoot Helos?????????

 

[S.U.R.B.]

I think u don't understand what i want to say........

So let me put it vary simple way.



Our one helo is searching for enemy sub in sea.
Sub some how able to know the position of the moving helos form under sea. OK

Now sub fire it's missile(According to u form torpedo tube) which make noise due to Compress air have to Push the missile our of the Tube...right

This is More then enough noise to pin point location of the Sub.(Vary easily because Helos generally search the sea near by War ships around 80 to 100 km max), then what happen to sub i don't have to describe.

Now i don't understand Why Sub want to give up it's position to just shoot Helos?????????

That's why i said earlier to make it easy for you that there will be always more than one missile in the torpedo tube.

Now kindly try to understand.

A common tactic might thus be to launch a pair of IDAS, one to destroy the immediate thread, the second one to get a clear picture of the surrounding air- and seaspace and to attack targets of interest, like a second ASW helicopter, a maritime patrol aircraft, ship or UUV. Additional missiles could be than be quickly launched if the need dictates it. Especially fleets moving at high speed employ a large variety of air-based assets to rapidly search the area ahead. In this case a submarine might fire a considerable volume (WCS permitting) of IDAS to wipe a large part of the dippers out of sky or off the decks. So if you give them a flaming datum, it should be a red hot one.....Plus you make sure that your last ditch attempt doesn't go in vain.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Firstly IDAS has not yet been repeatedly tested by user navy other than germans against anything like 800+ km/h cruising speed ASW aircrafts. It is primarily designed for helis and ships that come dangerously close to it.

It is expected to be operational for german navy by 2014 onwards.

P-8A and P-8I pack a deadly anti-sub punch. No sub will risk to disclose its presence by firing a wire-guided missile through its torpedo tube at them. The missile again is fiber-optic guided. So, increasing its range will not be a near-future possibility.

That's what i'm trying to explain.For Poseidon it's not effective and need improvement.But for some helis hovering around a ship...it's deadly.

 

[gogbot]

^^^^^^^

where is faithful guy , he is always going on about how , Indian does not have American hardware.
And make's A point of rubbishing Indian hardware and that of her allies.

Well this time it is American origin hardware , so why don't you put your talents to use and defend Indian hardware for once

 

[Just Yash]

That's what i'm trying to explain.For Poseidon it's not effective and need improvement.But for some helis hovering around a ship...it's deadly.

Which type of Sub commander want to destroy it's Millions of dollars sub and Kill his own crew members to just shoot Helos ??

why you think that Sub will fire it's Missile at anti sub helos first?
there are more chances to being detect first and get destroy.

Sub's main weapons is not any missile or torpedo but Stealth and by firing Fiber optic missile at vary less valuable helo it loosing it's main weapon