Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[sudhir007]

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Abingdonboy
You remember few days back in a Rafale thread you said imagine in 5 years or when jags, Migs, mirages retire and we dont have FGFA, AMCA in distance, what could be a nightmare scenario.. Some damaging points like that here..

Read below.. its from

http://164.100.47.134/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_8.pdf



The major points what IAF representative said during Oral evidence.

See what the committee recommended

@MilSpec @anant_s @Water Car Engineer @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @SR-91 @others
Pls do check this out.. Seems some are very strong points.. Committee did talk about MMRCA and LCA also..

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy
You remember few days back in a Rafale thread you said imagine in 5 years or when jags, Migs, mirages retire and we dont have FGFA, AMCA in distance, what could be a nightmare scenario.. Some damaging points like that here..

Read below.. its from

View attachment 287502
http://164.100.47.134/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_8.pdf



The major points what IAF representative said during Oral evidence.



View attachment 287501
View attachment 287500

See what the committee recommended

View attachment 287503
View attachment 287508
View attachment 287509


View attachment 287505



@MilSpec @anant_s @Water Car Engineer @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @SR-91 @others
Pls do check this out.. Seems some are very strong points.. Committee did talk about MMRCA and LCA also..

This is what we had discussed bro and it's pretty logical- fighter aircraft retiring> aircraft being inducted= declining SQN strength.

All sides can see it, it's now up to the GoI to do something about it.

 

[anant_s]

@Abingdonboy
You remember few days back in a Rafale thread you said imagine in 5 years or when jags, Migs, mirages retire and we dont have FGFA, AMCA in distance, what could be a nightmare scenario.. Some damaging points like that here..

Read below.. its from

View attachment 287502
http://164.100.47.134/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_8.pdf



The major points what IAF representative said during Oral evidence.



View attachment 287501
View attachment 287500

See what the committee recommended

View attachment 287503
View attachment 287508
View attachment 287509


View attachment 287505



@MilSpec @anant_s @Water Car Engineer @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @SR-91 @others
Pls do check this out.. Seems some are very strong points.. Committee did talk about MMRCA and LCA also..

I guess two things would be important to avoid this rather gloomy scenario:
1. Long term plan of procurement and consolidate fleet by reducing type of aircrafts. redundancy in terms of role across platform needs to be avoided. this will help in reducing cost f ownership in long run and simplification of Doctrines and Strategy that IAF would formulate.
2. Success of Make in India as it will:
a. Allow Development of private sector Aviation industry competency.
b. Allow faster completion of orders.
c. Allow parallel induction of fighters.

 

[SR-91]

@Abingdonboy
You remember few days back in a Rafale thread you said imagine in 5 years or when jags, Migs, mirages retire and we dont have FGFA, AMCA in distance, what could be a nightmare scenario.. Some damaging points like that here..

Read below.. its from

View attachment 287502
http://164.100.47.134/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_8.pdf



The major points what IAF representative said during Oral evidence.



View attachment 287501
View attachment 287500

See what the committee recommended

View attachment 287503
View attachment 287508
View attachment 287509


View attachment 287505



@MilSpec @anant_s @Water Car Engineer @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @SR-91 @others
Pls do check this out.. Seems some are very strong points.. Committee did talk about MMRCA and LCA also..

With Rafale deal almost out of way, the only concern is with FGFA. IAF is looking to procure but where does the MOD stands on this? They need to sign the damn deal and get those 3 prototypes and start changing it to IAF specs.

My concern is, ever since PM Modi came to power, India has shyed away from Russia. Procurements are on most needed equipment only. Hope to see two deals signed up, FGFA and MTA.

 

[SUDIP]

@Abingdonboy
You remember few days back in a Rafale thread you said imagine in 5 years or when jags, Migs, mirages retire and we dont have FGFA, AMCA in distance, what could be a nightmare scenario.. Some damaging points like that here..

Read below.. its from

View attachment 287502
http://164.100.47.134/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_8.pdf



The major points what IAF representative said during Oral evidence.



View attachment 287501
View attachment 287500

See what the committee recommended

View attachment 287503
View attachment 287508
View attachment 287509


View attachment 287505



@MilSpec @anant_s @Water Car Engineer @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @SR-91 @others
Pls do check this out.. Seems some are very strong points.. Committee did talk about MMRCA and LCA also..

Sir you should go cautiously while posting these on pakistani site. It's an old report, it was there in BR sience some months . BTW this BR guys have already gained notoriety for leaking defense ministry's file on INTERNET.

Who Is Responsible?
IMO this kind of situation is inevitable and it had already known that this situation is ought to come in the future. The major blame should be given to the babus of MOD and IAF itself.

Cause of this
General and Commanders of IAF and ARMY always used to be in opinion that with merely 2 trillion of GDP and a meager 45 billion of annual budget they can easily maintain 4th largest airforce and 3rd largest army with all imported state of the art weapons.

Since Independence both of the org has developed a pristine love for bureaucracy and imports lobbyist. They never tried to groom up any MIC in their respective field. On the same place why Navy has been so successful on indignation of its programs.

Going specific on IAF requirements, one can argue that after all the MIG 21 saga they kept alive the light section of the fighter and tried to fill up the medium section through imports. May be they would have thought all import plan will go as per plan rather than a fiasco in the future. When IAF were preparing a license production of Mirage-2000 india, due to heavy kickbacks to congress and mulayam singh we got our SU30s as love from Russia, but still after that IAF kept demanding a MMRCA and another license production. They have failed miserably to coordinate with the LCA pgm and turn it into MCA. With all chnging requirements they missed this one. They failed to establish a second line of an aircraft manu company besides HAL. Only after all failed import efforts and a lot of yelling from some good men and leaders they are on immense pressure now to go for "indigenously developed" and babus are also accepting it.

Probable Solution: (IMO only LCAs)

Forget 45 SQN for this time period trgt sud be regain 42 SQN by atleast 2025, so that with minimum of 750 AC we can engage 300 with Pakis and 400 with chinis and 50 reseve (for a two front war).

16 SQn of MKIs
10 SQn of JAGs+29s+Mirage
4 SQn of Rafael ( 36 + 36 follow on if every thing goes well as per planned (Doubtful) , No license prod of this but with some TOT critical spares should be made in india in our PVT sectors)
Total: 30 SQn
Now we need 12 more means 240 ACs.

Among another 240 ACs 120 will be LCA mark1a, so for another 120-150 ACs there can be 3 no of ways.

!>1. (It will be the best option )All 240s should be LCAs mark1-a, made in two different line of production (HAL+PVT sec but still skeptical abt this bcoz of our babugiri). HAL have claimed that they will gradually increase the LCA prod to 16 per annum by 2018, so by this figure it will take 15 yrs from 2018 (2033) to achieve the goal, so split this order between two and achieve the goal in 7-8 yrs. By this we r saving cost, time and most preciously, our effort to negotiate the price and TOTs with anyone. Moreover we r making a paradigm shift in our local aerospace industry by this.

!>2. ( Most popular now ) going for 9 to 10 SQn (or 7-8) of Raffy Seriously speaking despite being a BHAKT i hardly convinced that, this government has the intention to go for it. Even if a congress led gov after 2019 will hesitate to go for this. Because for 160-200 raffy we required 20-30 billion of rokda. You may calculate in a different way, deliberately try to show a trimmed figure, may publish a no of paid article for it, no matter what you do the figure will remain same or even exceeds.So no sane politician ( as they always want to play safe rather than leading from the front) will agree to invest 20 billion with a partial TOT in the present fragile era of media.

Until any miracle like, really a corrupt goverment and DM, 2019 onwards who really want to destroy indigenous industry with a lot of kickbacks or MP will become ruthlessly corrupt and start taking gifts from Dassault or Dassault will have transfered all the raffy prod line to HAL, there is a little room for above option. Because even if some one agree to procure another 150 Rafael jet then we will only have the "NEGOTIATION ARE ON THE FINAL STAGE" moments until the next war.

So after all this drama one retire IAF chief will write a paid article, pointing out that " We have air superiority with MKIs , We have CAS with JAGs and Mirages, We have air defence with 29s and point defense with LCAs but now we need 150 more Rafael to fulfill our deep-strike and multi role capability, then i will rest my case and will go for a .

"AT DROUGHT YOU CAN'T CHOOSE YOUR LOVING DISH FROM THE MENU" : By No one

3:> out of 240, 180 mark 1a and 60 raffy ( just a random calculation, not a matter of discourse but the same no 2 conditions will be applied)

So moral of the above story : " DO EVERYTHING BUT IMPORTS"

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I have been telling about falling numbers but.....
In my opinion the most probable way to beef up the numbers us to look 360°. Not concentrate in just one direction.

Meaning , it will not damage the reputation of IAF and MoD if they go for second hand Mirages.

1. They need to go and buy 2nd hand mirages.
They will come quick and we will be able to make up for the Mig27 squadrons we will be losing. Options are that of Greece, France and Qatar .
And then get a private company to sign a deal to upgrade 50% of the fleet in India and rest in France.

2. A couple of Mig29 squadrons. Again they will be quick and " Cheap "while delivering a very decent 4th gen multirole capabilities.

3. Bring up 2 more production lines of Tejas. One from Private sector and one from HAL. AND give an order for 2 squadrons each and place a condition , who delivers faster gets more orders.

Meanwhile get a private Indian company and a foreign consultant , mostly Dassault and set up a system wherein they try to refine and upgrade the aircraft every 2 Years .


4. Place an addition order of 2 squadrons of Flankers. And get the Daamm HAL to produce 18 aircrafts a year.

5. I will not talk about Rafale.... it seems like eternity.

6. Get the Fcuk more fund..... Just see what a smaller UK airforce or French airforce.... they operate less aircraft with a bigger pocket.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Awesome to see the formation flying by the Mirages, such beautiful and elegant aircraft (even if the MKIs hog all the attenton in this regard).

@PARIKRAMA @Taygibay @Vauban @SpArK @MilSpec @Levina @nair @bloo @Water Car Engineer @Roybot

 

[Taygibay]

For an Indian, the love expressed for the M2000 by the pilot interviewed in the clip
should be soothing. You want your airmen and all soldiers to feel that good and that
confident about their tools!

And yes, Abingdonboy my friend, it's as pretty as they come. Pure lines of a pure breed!

Good day mate, Tay.

 

[Levina]

@Abingdonboy
Is this true?
I didn't see anyone else reporting it.

@PARIKRAMA @Taygibay @Vauban @SpArK @MilSpec @Levina @nair @bloo @Water Car Engineer @Roybot

I did not get any notification.

 

[Taygibay]

There are more reports milady :
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/rajasthan-fighter-jet-accidently-drops-5-bombs/1/580089.html

It seems mixed up with downing a balloon. My supposition is that the two cases are indeed linked
so that it may not be as simple as that. Maybe the bombs were cannon shells instead from firing
at the unidentified object? 30mm ammo from a downward facing fighter are more than powerful
enough to crack houses of modest construction after missing their target. The image in many reports
show such shells' tips :

The explosions reported however, if true, would be from a Sudarshan unless exaggeration is at fault?

I'll bet on cannon passes at the balloon.
Great day to you, Tay.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy
Is this true?
I didn't see anyone else reporting it.


View attachment 289793


I did not get any notification.

There are more reports milady :
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/rajasthan-fighter-jet-accidently-drops-5-bombs/1/580089.html

It seems mixed up with downing a balloon. My supposition is that the two cases are indeed linked
so that it may not be as simple as that. Maybe the bombs were cannon shells instead from firing
at the unidentified object? 30mm ammo from a downward facing fighter are more than powerful
enough to crack houses of modest construction after missing their target. The image in many reports
show such shells' tips :

View attachment 289845

The explosions reported however, if true, would be from a Sudarshan unless exaggeration is at fault?

I'll bet on cannon passes at the balloon.
Great day to you, Tay.

Indian media at their best!

No bombs were dropped. What the villagers found were reminents of 30mm cannon fire on the balloon and the "blast" sounds were sonic bombs, the IAF went to the village and clarified this completely.


Many not accustomed with the concept of a sonic boom could find them quite alarming, I remember something similar happening in Goa soon after the IN's MiG-29Ks entered service (the first supersonic aircraft of the IN), many villagers along the coast were rather concerned:


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...stal-residents-about-super-sonic-boom-1434785

http://twocircles.net/2010sep07/navy_warns_fighter_planes_sonic_booms_goa.html#.VqlGhvGHdpk

http://www.heraldgoa.in/Goa/The-Sun...eople-not-to-panic-over-sonic-boom/39853.html

 

[W@rwolf]

No bombs were dropped. What the villagers found were reminents of 30mm cannon fire on the balloon and the "blast" sounds were sonic bombs, the IAF went to the village and clarified this completely.

Any official response from IAF?? Like a press release or something?
I think this is the first time an IAF jet has gone supersonic over land (as it not allowed to do so) But this being a scramble could have led to the MKI breaking the barrier to shoot it down.

 

[Taygibay]

Thanks for that find / confirmation, Abingdon mate!

Tay.