Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[sasi]

I need to find out the planned projection for production of the PS-90 engine for the MTA. If it is to be dependent on material flow from Russia then there could be low op. availability. Lets see.

The lack of an indigenous heavy-lift hepter is going to bite us though, how many Mi-17V5s are up atm? How many are projected- sorry for being lazy- I know you mentioned the number earlier.

i think engine is our choice for mta(possibly western!).
80 mi-17 in 2008 and 71 in 2012 signed.
Atm and projected don't know!

 

[Dillinger]

i think engine is our choice for mta(possibly western!).
80 mi-17 in 2008 and 71 in 2012 signed.
Atm and projected don't know!

Yaara I was asking specifically for the no. of V5s.

The MTA engine has already been decided, Aviadvigatel PS-90A-76.

 

[Dillinger]

@Abingdonboy PSK says we're going in for 2 more Airborne brigades, the latter of the two being an airborne assault brigade out of the 54th div. So that will make 3 brigades in all- 2 short of a division. That's still a division short of what we'll face. Damn it! People think its all impenetrable hills along the LAC- how do they think the infiltration occurs- a few jump points do exist.

Dunno about the airlift assets being provided to them- will seriously have to look into that. Btw that LWIR sensor on the Nag ain't ours or so it seems BUT the miniaturized cryo cooling system is.

Man I would give my left arm for something like the 501st legion, Vader's Fist, right out of the screen.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy PSK says we're going in for 2 more Airborne brigades, the latter of the two being an airborne assault brigade out of the 54th div. So that will make 3 brigades in all- 2 short of a division. That's still a division short of what we'll face. Damn it! People think its all impenetrable hills along the LAC- how do they think the infiltration occurs- a few jump points do exist.

Dunno about the airlift assets being provided to them- will seriously have to look into that. Btw that LWIR sensor on the Nag ain't ours or so it seems BUT the miniaturized cryo cooling system is.

Man I would give my left arm for something like the 501st legion, Vader's Fist, right out of the screen.

What the IA desperately needs is to evolve its doctrine. The idea of "air Assualt" was pioneered by the 101st of the US army in Vietnam. Now whilst the IA has Airborne brigades of doesnt quite have "Air Assualt" brigades when compared to the 101st's example. What needs to be done is a close tie between the rotary wing assets (helos) and the air Assualt troops- this needs to be their bread and butter. Now whilst most infantrymen in the IA can fast rope from helos, it takes a lot more for troops to be considered "Air Assualters". You need doctrines to back it up as well as understanding.


Let's see how things evolve, I think it is a question of mindsets needing to get with the times- the resources and assets are all there; it is about formulating the correct practices/formations/plans from this.


I also think the Airborne forces as a whole need to be re-orginaised. The PARA (Airborne) btns need to be complety seperated from the PARA (SF) btns and then explanded. AFAIK, there are 3 PARA (Airborne) btns which is woefully inadequate and in the PARA regmt the weight is actually in the SFs.


I do like the idea of the 50th (Independent) Parachute brigade. A self-contained rapid action force. It's a sweet asset.

 

[Dillinger]

What the IA desperately needs is to evolve its doctrine. The idea of "air Assualt" was pioneered by the 101st of the US army in Vietnam. Now whilst the IA has Airborne brigades of doesnt quite have "Air Assualt" brigades when compared to the 101st's example. What needs to be done is a close tie between the rotary wing assets (helos) and the air Assualt troops- this needs to be their bread and butter. Now whilst most infantrymen in the IA can fast rope from helos, it takes a lot more for troops to be considered "Air Assualters". You need doctrines to back it up as well as understanding.


Let's see how things evolve, I think it is a question of mindsets needing to get with the times- the resources and assets are all there; it is about formulating the correct practices/formations/plans from this.


I also think the Airborne forces as a whole need to be re-orginaised. The PARA (Airborne) btns need to be complety seperated from the PARA (SF) btns and then explanded. AFAIK, there are 3 PARA (Airborne) btns which is woefully inadequate and in the PARA regmt the weight is actually in the SFs.


I do like the idea of the 50th (Independent) Parachute brigade. A self-contained rapid action force. It's a sweet asset.

4 PARA battalions, actually the 50th already had organic, signals, field sappers and artillery elements- what we need is a combat aviation brigade to go with it. That's when you reach the point of air assault.

The 54th div. is being restructured into one airborne brig right along the lines of the 50th independent and another air-assault brigade.

Facing off against the 15th airborne corps- doable but not an enviable situation at all.

SARDP-NE is a sore stub in all of this- god damn babaus been warming their behinds on top of it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

4 PARA battalions, actually the 50th already had organic, signals, field sappers and artillery elements- what we need is a combat aviation brigade to go with it. That's when you reach the point of air assault.

The 54th div. is being restructured into one airborne brig right along the lines of the 50th independent and another air-assault brigade.

Facing off against the 15th airborne corps- doable but not an enviable situation at all.

SARDP-NE is a sore stub in all of this- god damn babaus been warming their behinds on top of it.

The 50th isn't meant to be an Air Assualt Brigade though bro- it is very much meant to fly by fixed wing assets to wherever India needs a rapid military reaction. I think they remain on 12 hour alert (that's a figure I heard somewhere) meaning within 12 hours of getting the call the first elements of the brigade will be "wheels up". Interestingly (not a coincidence though) the 50th is based not very far from Hindon AFS and what now lives there? That's right 6 C-130J-30s and soon 10 C-17s!


You're right about the 50th having its own support elements from combat engineers to signals, pathfinders etc all airborne qualified and they would jump in with the Airborne infantry.


Oh right it is 4 btns- 5,6,7 and the 12th (raised in 2011). Not sure if the 12th is fully up and running though.

 

[Dillinger]

The 50th isn't meant to be an Air Assualt Brigade though bro- it is very much meant to fly by fixed wing assets to wherever India needs a rapid military reaction. I think they remain on 12 hour alert (that's a figure I heard somewhere) meaning within 12 hours of getting the call the first elements of the brigade will be "wheels up". Interestingly (not a coincidence though) the 50th is based not very far from Hindon AFS and what now lives there? That's right 6 C-130J-30s and soon 10 C-17s!


You're right about the 50th having its own support elements from combat engineers to signals, pathfinders etc all airborne qualified and they would jump in with the Airborne infantry.


Oh right it is 4 btns- 5,6,7 and the 12th (raised in 2011). Not sure if the 12th is fully up and running though.

In a year or so.

That's the point, see all the Para Bats. are very much qualified to be air assaulter bats- they lack the air assault brigade. For three airborne Brigades at least one combat aviation brigade is required.

Composition of Combat aviation brigade-

2 attack/rec. bats- 40+ attack helis.
1 AHB- 30 medium lift helos
1 GSAB- 8 heavy lift helos (the US uses the Chinook), and 20 or so support helos.
and 1 aviation support bat

This can cater to around 2-3 airborne brigades but the ideal number is 2 combat-aviation brigades for full air assault.

 

[Abingdonboy]

In a year or so.

That's the point, see all the Para Bats. are very much qualified to be air assaulter bats- they lack the air assault brigade. For three airborne Brigades at least one combat aviation brigade is required.

Composition of Combat aviation brigade-

2 attack/rec. bats- 40+ attack helis.
1 AHB- 30 medium lift helos
1 GSAB- 8 heavy lift helos (the US uses the Chinook), and 20 or so support helos.
and 1 aviation support bat

This can cater to around 2-3 airborne brigades but the ideal number is 2 combat-aviation brigades for full air assault.

Do you not think the IA should seperate the roles? Like in the US where they have the 82nd Airborne and the 101st air assult. The PARA (AIRBORNE) btns for sure can do Air Assualt operations. But I'd say have an entirely seperate Air Assualt Divsion with its own dedicated rotary-wing assets. I think 50th is a pretty specialised unit as it is. It is meant to be a Rapid Action force but not nesercarily for prolonged all-out warfare. They are the IA's "QRF". It'll be pretty sweet when these guys are also armed with M777 ULHs and can jump out a C-130/C-17 with the guns.


The IA should also give their air Assualt and Airborne forces specialised light armour.

 

[Dillinger]

Do you not think the IA should seperate the roles? Like in the US where they have the 82nd Airborne and the 101st air assult. The PARA (AIRBORNE) btns for sure can do Air Assualt operations. But I'd say have an entirely seperate Air Assualt Divsion with its own dedicated rotary-wing assets. I think 50th is a pretty specialised unit as it is. It is meant to be a Rapid Action force but not nesercarily for prolonged all-out warfare. They are the IA's "QRF". It'll be pretty sweet when these guys are also armed with M777 ULHs and can jump out a C-130/C-17 with the guns.


The IA should also give their air Assualt and Airborne forces specialised light armour.

Yaara we only have 3 brigades anyway- so no need to separate the role and ONLY one of those brigades shall be an air-assault brigade.

The difference between the 82nd and and 101st is that the 101st has two CABs instead of just one in the case of the 82nd- that's why the 101st is the air-assault division.

We are not even at division level- not unless one more airborne brigade is raised- after which the addition of one CABs will provide us with one parachute assault division with organic heli-lift, one more CABs will convert that into an air-assault division.

That means for a complete division, we need one more Airborne brig. plus 2 CABs along with the existing 50th independent and two brigs. coming up out of the 54th div.

 

[Dillinger]

@Abingdonboy Yaara, one can only wish wrt the light combat vehicles and ULH artillery but before we go for qualitative requirements lets get the structure in place.

 

[Dillinger]

@S-DUCT waise the LCH doesn't seem to have an IR suppressor for its engine exhaust outlet. Any plans for the same, any idea?

 

[S-DUCT]

@Dillinger
Digital mockuo of LCH does not seem to have any IR suppressors.But in the official brochure it is said to have stealth features with IR supression,so i guess it'll have IR supressor.

PS
Sorry 4 the late reply.Actually i read your reply at 6pm,but i was very-very tired.

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger
Digital mockuo of LCH does not seem to have any IR suppressors.But in the official brochure it is said to have stealth features with IR supression,so i guess it'll have IR supressor.

PS
Sorry 4 the late reply.Actually i read your reply at 6pm,but i was very-very tired.

Yaara they have IR cm, no IR suppressors for the engine exhaust itself IMO. The engine exhaust has been left uncovered.

Port exhaust IR suppressor.

 

[S-DUCT]

 

[Dillinger]

@S-DUCT Something akin to the black-hole Ocarina- which btw is a structural addition and not an integral design part.

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