Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[Bratva]

Here is the Range that Dr.Carlo Kopp mentions in the article which both you and I have quoted wrt the No11m BARS
is 117.5 Naut. Mi. for a 1m2 RCS.
How many Kms is 117.5 Naut.Mi?
Do the math......
Figures speak more clearly at any time than any hearsay information devoid of any figures. And our reasoning skills can work adequately to digest that.

If you have read that article; then consider how Kopp has even graphically illustrated the Tactical Implications of High Power Aperture Fighter Radars.

He has even described the development cycle of the BARS radar and attempted a comparitive analysis of Western an US Radars. Of course we even have to keep in mind that most specs of Radar equipment are not even fully exposed and there is a tendency to under-report.

Finally, the BARS No11M i s not even the final iteration of the development cycle of this family of Tikhomirov radars. The next step up is the IRBIS-E which will not be the last step. Its in fact the IRBIS that will be part of the MKI upgrade.

You are at perfect liberty to accept whatever your reasoning skills permit you to.

Most probably, 117.5 NMI is when radar is operating at it's peak power. If you google the radar range calculator, one factor in calculation is Peak power. But in normal operating mode, Radar can't work on peak powers for extended period or else it will do some serious damage or worse radar would burn.
What offical radar designer figure is when N011M operating at it's optimal power which most aircraft radars operate at.

RMAX = Radar Range
Pt = Transmitted Pulse Peak Power
G = Maximum Power Gain of Antenna
Ae = Antenna Aperture
S = Radar Cross Section Area
PMIN = Minimum Detectable Signal of Receiver

 

[sancho]

Official ( russian) and unofficial links state 140-145 KM detection range for 5 m^2.

Indian anon sources says 200 KM for 5 m^2 and on basis of it claims it to be a mini awac.

Who is right and who is wrong, that's what I'm trying to ascertain.

Both are right, but a common mistake is taking 5m² as the target size, while the official Russian manufacturer source says:

Detection range for a MiG-29 type fighter in 300 sq.deg

Meaning 3m2!!! The Russians measure their AESA and PESA radars (Zhuk AE, BARS, IRBIS-E), just as most other countries against 3m² targets, while older puls doppler radars like the Zhuk ME are measured against 5m² targets. That means, that the BARS offer a detection range of around 140Km for a 3m² target, which makes detecting a 5m² at around 200Km logical.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Meaning 3m2!!! The Russians measure their AESA and PESA radars (Zhuk AE, BARS, IRBIS-E), just as most other countries against 3m² targets, while older puls doppler radars like the Zhuk ME are measured against 5m² targets. That means, that the BARS offer a detection range of around 140Km for a 3m² target, which makes detecting a 5m² at around 200Km logical.

I have a doubt!
"Detection range for a MiG-29 type fighter in 300 sq.deg. scanning zone" was the statement in the website,so how did you get to the 3m^2 figure?
Thanks!

 

[sancho]

I have a doubt!
"Detection range for a MiG-29 type fighter in 300 sq.deg. scanning zone" was the statement in the website,so how did you get to the 3m^2 figure?
Thanks!

Because it's just another scale unit, compared to square meter. Just as measuring the lenght of a product in meters or in centimeter, or if you calculate in crores or millions. Here is another example of different scale unit:

In air-to-air mode, the RBE2 gives a tracking range beyond 60 nautical miles against a 30-square-foot target, with detection ranges up to 75 nautical miles. The radar can track and prioritize up to 40 targets simultaneously and engage up to eight with Mica, and soon Meteor, air-to-air missiles.

Avionics Magazine :: Serious Squall


If you convert it into square meter, you again get 3m² and as I said, the other Russian AESA and PESA radars are also measured against 3m² targets.

 

[SamBahadur]

Both are right, but a common mistake is taking 5m² as the target size, while the official Russian manufacturer source says:



Meaning 3m2!!! The Russians measure their AESA and PESA radars (Zhuk AE, BARS, IRBIS-E), just as most other countries against 3m² targets, while older puls doppler radars like the Zhuk ME are measured against 5m² targets. That means, that the BARS offer a detection range of around 140Km for a 3m² target, which makes detecting a 5m² at around 200Km logical.

Any information on the extent of RCS reduction and type of radar ( BARS or IRBIS) in future upgrade of Su-30MKI

 

[sancho]

Any information on the extent of RCS reduction and type of radar ( BARS or IRBIS) in future upgrade of Su-30MKI

Nothing official or reliable so far. We know that composites and RAM will be added, we know that the radar will be upgraded, but we neither know to what extend that will change the RCS since we even estimate the current RCS, nor can we say how the radar will be upgraded since we haven't decided about it so far (BARS PESA upgrade more comparable to IRBIS-E, BARS upgrade to AESA more comparable to RBE 2 changes, or replacement with Zhuk AE).

The only estimate is, that the RCS can be reduced with replacing metall parts with composites and more importantly apply RAM for about 4 to 5 times, based on the improvements of the Russians with the latest Mig 29s or Flankers.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[sancho]

India, UK sign deals worth £370 million

Deals worth at least £370 million (around Rs.3,800 crore) were signed between India and the UK on Monday, the first day of a visit by George Osborne, the British chancellor of the exchequer, and William Hague, the country’s foreign secretary. The Indian Air Force and companies such as the Mahindra Group and Cipla Ltd were among those that signed business agreements with UK-based corporations. Osborne told a press conference in Mumbai that India’s defence ministry has signed a £250 million contact with missile maker MBDA of the UK for the supply of advanced short range air-to-air missiles (ASRAAM) to the Indian Air Force’s fleet of Jaguar aircraft...

India, UK sign deals worth £370 million - Livemint

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Faak!
The ASRAAM has BVR Missile like range!
Plus,High off boresight and LOAL!
The IAF has some of the best SRAAM in the world!
1)Python-5
2)ASRAAM
3)R-73E(or M?)

 

[Abingdonboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/491832892280958977

 

[Abingdonboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/488608949562667008

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/488608949562667008

So already they are planning to dump sudarshan and astra.

 

[Abingdonboy]

So already they are planning to dump sudarshan and astra.

Where did you get that from? Rather the opposite.

 

[Echo_419]

Where did you get that from? Rather the opposite.

More Good news

IAF to induct sixth C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft on Monday

IAF to induct sixth C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft on Monday - The Economic Times

https://twitter.com/x/status/488608949562667008

Is this dude reliable

 

[Abingdonboy]

Is this dude reliable

IMHO yes he is- by far the most reliable Indian defence journo out there. Google him, read some of his op-eds and tweets he is very balanced, fair and well-informed across the board. He is no PSG or Shiv Aroor thank god!