Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[sancho]

First MKI picture (that at least I know of), with an LGB!

 

[sancho]

Crossposting from the key forum (credits to Kovy)

(upgraded IAF Mirage 2000-5 with full MICA load)

 

[RPK]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=590470374383625

 

[Agent_47]

F-15, F-22, Su-30, Mig-29N, BAE Hawk and F/A-18 flying together during Cope Taufan 2014.
Not MKI ,Its MKM.

 

[Sri]

Yesterday been to Dindigal (Near Hyd), MKI's did some spectacular displays there e.g cobra, stall, free fall etc. I did not carry camera to take any decent pics . Any idea why that show was there.

 

[Agent_47]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Bratva]

What's MKI radar range ?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

What's MKI radar range ?

@Bratva
I did observe some "misinformation" being peddled by some people here on another thread, where you had raised some points.
After all; nothing feels as good as a feel good story, as is commonly said.

Here is the information from Dr.Carlo Kopp:
Flanker Radar Power Aperture Product
Radar Type Antenna Design Av Power [kW] PAAVE [dBWm2] Pk Power [kW] PAPEAK [dBWm2] Range [NMI]
1 m2 RCS LNA NF [dB]
N001 Myech Twisted Cassegrain MSA 1.0 28.0 4.0 34.1 43.0 - 53.0 unspec ~9.0
N001VE Twisted Cassegrain MSA 1.0 28.0 4.0 34.1 72.0 - 81.0 unspec ~9.0
N001VEP Twisted Cassegrain MSA 1.0 28.0 4.0 34.1 72.0 - 81.0 unspec ~9.0
N001VE-Pero Space Feed PESA 1.0 29.4 4.0 35.4 ~102.0 unspec ~9.0
N011 Planar Array MSA 2.0 31.1 8.0 37.1 75.0 unspec ~9.0
N011M BARS Hybrid ESA 1.2 28.9 4.8 34.9 ~104.0 / 75.0 spec 3.0
N011M BARS Hybrid ESA 1.6 30.1 6.5 36.2 ~117.5 3.0
Irbis-E Hybrid ESA 5.0 35.1 18.6 40.8 ~153.0 3.5
Zhuk AS/ASE AESA est 16.3 TBD TBD TBD TBD ~3.0

Comparative Performance
APG-71 (F-14D) Planar Array MSA 0.9 m 7.0 36.5 10.2 38.1 115 - 400.0 unspec ~9.0

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

What's MKI radar range ?

Search range:400 Km
Tracking Range:200 Km
From the official website(?):
"Air-to-Ground" mode:

Detection ranges are as follows:
- of a railway bridge: 80..120 km.;
- of a group of tanks: 40..50 km.;
- of a torpedo-boat destroyer: 80..120 km.;
- of an aircraft carrier: 250 km.

Detection range for a MiG-29 type fighter in 300 sq.deg. scanning zone is as follows:
- at head-on courses - up to 140 km;
- at trailing courses - up to 60 km.
Radar control system "BARS" for Su-30MKI, Su-30MKA, Su-30MKM fighters

 

[Bratva]

@Bratva
I did observe some "misinformation" being peddled by some people here on another thread, where you had raised some points.
After all; nothing feels as good as a feel good story, as is commonly said.

Here is the information from Dr.Carlo Kopp:
Flanker Radar Power Aperture Product
Radar Type Antenna Design Av Power [kW] P AAVE [dBWm2] Pk Power [kW] PAPEAK [dBWm2] Range [NMI]
1 m2 RCS LNA NF [dB]
N001 Myech Twisted Cassegrain MSA 1.0 28.0 4.0 34.1 43.0 - 53.0 unspec ~9.0
N001VE Twisted Cassegrain MSA 1.0 28.0 4.0 34.1 72.0 - 81.0 unspec ~9.0
N001VEP Twisted Cassegrain MSA 1.0 28.0 4.0 34.1 72.0 - 81.0 unspec ~9.0
N001VE-Pero Space Feed PESA 1.0 29.4 4.0 35.4 ~102.0 unspec ~9.0
N011 Planar Array MSA 2.0 31.1 8.0 37.1 75.0 unspec ~9.0
N011M BARS Hybrid ESA 1.2 28.9 4.8 34.9 ~104.0 / 75.0 spec 3.0
N011M BARS Hybrid ESA 1.6 30.1 6.5 36.2 ~117.5 3.0
Irbis-E Hybrid ESA 5.0 35.1 18.6 40.8 ~153.0 3.5
Zhuk AS/ASE AESA est 16.3 TBD TBD TBD TBD ~3.0

Comparative Performance
APG-71 (F-14D) Planar Array MSA 0.9 m 7.0 36.5 10.2 38.1 115 - 400.0 unspec ~9.0

Радиолокационная система управления «БАРС» для истребителей Су-30МКИ, Су-30МКА, Су-30МКМ

Flanker Radars in Beyond Visual Range Air Combat Karlo copp

Cited detection range for a closing target (High PRF) is up to 76 NMI, for a receding target up to 50 NMI

Official ( russian) and unofficial links state 140-145 KM detection range for 5 m^2.

Indian anon sources says 200 KM for 5 m^2 and on basis of it claims it to be a mini awac.

Who is right and who is wrong, that's what I'm trying to ascertain.

Search range:400 Km
Tracking Range:200 Km

But russian radar designer says tracking or detection range of a Mig-29 size fighter aircraft is 140 KM?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Bratva;

Here is the link to the article by Dr.Carlo Kopp that I quoted from:
Flanker Radars in Beyond Visual Range Air Combat

Interesting to read. Please read through it. It makes a comprehensive analysis of not just the Flanker's Radar but also of the Radar/Missile Combinations of various aircraft as well as an exposition of Missile Kinematics and their relation-ship to an aircraft's lethality.

Seems more credible than any "hearsay information" got from any Gp.Captain's pet bird.......

 

[Bratva]

@Bratva;

Here is the link to the article by Dr.Carlo Kopp that I quoted from:
Flanker Radars in Beyond Visual Range Air Combat

Interesting to read. Please read through it. It makes a comprehensive analysis of not just the Flanker's Radar but also of the Radar/Missile Combinations of various aircraft as well as an exposition of Missile Kinematics and their relation-ship to an aircraft's lethality.

Seems more credible than any "hearsay information" got from any Gp.Captain's pet bird.......

I read it through. Read links in my Previous post. Radar designer website > Karlo copp observation but both make a point that No11M bars on MKI does have a detection range of 140-145 KM. Has IAF mentioned MKI radar range by any chance ?

P.S. No need for personal attacks. Criticize person upfront, not on his back

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I read it through. Read links in my Previous post. Radar designer website > Karlo copp observation but both make a point that No11M bars on MKI does have a detection range of 140-145 KM. Has IAF mentioned MKI radar range by any chance ?

Here is the Range that Dr.Carlo Kopp mentions in the article which both you and I have quoted wrt the No11m BARS
is 117.5 Naut. Mi. for a 1m2 RCS.
How many Kms is 117.5 Naut.Mi?
Do the math......
Figures speak more clearly at any time than any hearsay information devoid of any figures. And our reasoning skills can work adequately to digest that.

If you have read that article; then consider how Kopp has even graphically illustrated the Tactical Implications of High Power Aperture Fighter Radars.
He has even described the development cycle of the BARS radar and attempted a comparitive analysis of Western an US Radars. Of course we even have to keep in mind that most specs of Radar equipment are not even fully exposed and there is a tendency to under-report.

Finally, the BARS No11M i s not even the final iteration of the development cycle of this family of Tikhomirov radars. The next step up is the IRBIS-E which will not be the last step. Its in fact the IRBIS that will be part of the MKI upgrade.
You are at perfect liberty to accept whatever your reasoning skills permit you to.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Okay,I googled a bit and found another source for the ranges that I mentioned.
I do not vouch for the authenticity,though
They have the most detailed article on the BARS(Even the NIIP website does not have that much information!)

The forward facing NIIP NO11M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated radar sighting system. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar (X and L Band, NATO D and I). The N011M can function both in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneusly while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial / GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. The aircraft has an opto-electronic surveillance and targeting system which consists of a IR direction finder, laser rangefinder and helmet mounted sight system. The HMS allows the pilot to turn his head in a 90º field of view, lock on to a target and launch the much-feared R-73E missile. The Sura-K HMS for the Su-30MKI has been supplied by the Ukranian Arsenal Company (the same also makes the APK-9 datalink pod for the Kh-59M).

The N011M radar has been under flight testing since 1993, fitted to Su-27M (Su-35) prototype '712'. It employs the same level of technology as the now abandoned N014 radar which was to have equipped Mikoyan's MFI "fifth-generation" fighter and was initiated by Tamerlan Bekirbayev. The nose of the Su-30MKI was modified (compared the Su-27) to accommodate the fixed antenna array and more avionics boxes. The first improved N011M radar for the Su-30MKI was flown on 26-Nov-2000. Note that the N011M is different from the N011 "Mech" radar: the latter is mechanical scanning and equips the No 24 Sqn aircraft.

Antenna diameter is 1m, antenna gain 36dB, the main sidelobe level is -25dB, average sideobe level is -48dB, beamwidth is 2.4 deg with 12 distinct beam shapes. The antenna weighs 100 Kg.

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of detecting Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. The radar can track 20 air targets and engage the 4 most threatening targets simultaneously (this capability was introduced in the Indian RC1 and RC2). These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. For comparison, Phazotron-NIIR’s Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. "We can count the number of blades in the engine of the aircraft in sight (by the NO11M) and by that determine its type," NIIP says.

The forward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation (+/-45 degrees vertical and +/-70 degrees horizontal have also been reported). N011M can withstand up to 5 percent transceiver loss without significant degredation in performance.

The Su-30MKI can function as a 'mini-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to atleast 4 other aircraft. This feature was first seen in the MiG-31 Foxhound, which is equipped with a Zaslon radar.

Radar Computers

Purpose
> Facilitate automatic PRF selection of hostile targets moving at blind speeds
> Enhance tracking capability to 8 targets

Characteristics
> 486 main processor
> 386 Summit processor
> ARINC 429 Interface
> Dimensions 32cm x 19cm x 19cm
> Weight 14 kg each

RC1 Functions
> Interfaced to MCDP through ARINC and MIL-1553 BUS
> Interfaced to RC2 via high speed parallel Q bus
> Processes radar input and passes results to mission computer

RC2 Functions
> Interfaced to PSP
> Interfaced to various radar devices and combat computer via Q bus

Ground surveillance modes include mapping (with Doppler beam sharpening), search & track of moving targets, synthetic aperture radar and terrain avoidance. To penetrate enemy defenses, the aircraft can fly at low altitudes using the terrain following and obstacle avoidance feature. It enables the pilot to independently find his position without help from external sources (satellite navigation, etc.); detect ground targets and their AD systems; choose the best approach route to a target with continuous updates fed to the aircraft navigation systems; and provide onboard systems and armament with targeting data.

According to Sukhoi EDB the Su-30MKI is capable of performing all tactical tasks of the Su-24 Fencer deep interdiction tactical bomber and the Su-27 Flanker A/B/C air superiority fighter while having around twice the combat range and atleast 2.5 times the combat effectiveness.

The N011M offers a quantum leap in technology over the earlier Russian radars. Small ground targets, like tanks, can be detected out to 40-50 km. The MiG-29, Su-27 and other fighters can be provided with a ground strike capability only if their radars can operate in the down-looking mode which generates a map of ground surface on a cockpit display (this mode is called the Mapping Mode).

N011M ensures a 20 m resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km. Coupled with the air-launched Brahmos-A AShM, the Su-30MKI will become an unchallanged platform for Anti-Ship duties. The Brahmos is a result of a joint collaboration between India and Russia and is a variant of the Yakhont AShM (which has not entered service).

N011M Bars supplied to the IAF have progressively updated capabilities. Future upgradation plans include new gimbals for the antenna mount to increase the field of view to about 90-100 degrees to both sides. New software will enable a Doppler-sharpening mode and the capability to engage up to eight air targets simultaneously. Additionally the capability of the world-best PJ-10 Brahmos missile will be incorporated. The Air launched version of the missile 'Brahmos-A' requires modifications to the airframe due to high weight. As many as three can be carried on the MKI, but only if the weight of the missile can be reduced. Untill then a capability to carry one Brahmos and two Krypton ("mini moskit") missiles is being worked on.

AircraftRadarRemarks
Su-30MKI Phase-IN011M Mk.1
> Only Air-to-Air modes

Su-30MKI Phase-IIN011M Mk.2
> Ability to engage targets with four R-77
> Ground mapping
> Ground/Sea target search and lock
> Integrated with Kh-31A and Kh-59ME

Su-30MKI Phase-IIIN011M Mk.3
> Russian C101 radar computer replaced by Indian processor.
> Ground attack mode with simultaneus air target search
> Integration with Rafael Litening pod

Su-30MKIN011M
> 2007 debut
> New gimbals for the moving antenna: +/-100 degrees azimuth & elevation
> New computer: 180 km tracking range

The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena