Indian Air Force - Exercises Discussions

[Contrarian]

How?


Right, read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-30MKI


Why not? Have you flown or studied either JF-17 or the J-10?

again put J-10 or JF-17 in wikipedia, to learn more about their stated capabilities. Their real capabilities surely cannot exceed their stated paper capabilities, unless China made a counter to the F-22, and stated all the **** with ridculously low stats to hide it.

Please share with us how the MKIs would have changed the equation?

The MKI's wont have changed a damn things. What is being said is that even the base model Su-30's, n Su-30 MK's managed to put some punches.


Now read the wikipedia article, you will CLEARLY see the difference b/w an MKI and other Su-30 models.

And you will see clearly stated there, it is a better match than the US F-15. F-16's are simply not a match.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-30MKI

Dont confuse yourself, no1 is saying that India can take on the USAF, it is simply a matter to compare, that if this was the case with Su-30's and F-15's.What would happen with MKI's and F-16's.Now do u see where i am getting?

 

[Contrarian]

Not quite true.

Please, tell me which aircraft in the Indian subcontinent can currently beat teh Su-30MKI?????


oh btw MiG_ACE, if the su-30's could match the F-15's, imagine what the MKI's would do to the F-16's!

 

[Neo]

oh btw MiG_ACE, if the su-30's could match the F-15's, imagine what the MKI's would do to the F-16's!

F-15E/F would be a good match.
USAF F-15 were stripped down as explained above.

 

[Goodperson]

The exercises are over long back, Let us stick to what ever planes were used
infact topic started started by saying US did not use its best planes.

Whatever I have given neutral source too.

 

[Contrarian]

F-15E/F would be a good match.
USAF F-15 were stripped down as explained above.

roger,had missd this fact .

 

[Munir]

Facts:

USAF was only allowed in outnumbered by IAF situations
USAF was not allowed to use long range radar or AESA
USAF was not allowed BVR
USAF pilots were not top a2a pilots

Reason:

funding F22...

 

[Goodperson]

Read this

USAF: Indian Exercises Showed Need For F/A-22, Changes In Training
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-iaf-usaf-su30-f15-article01.html

 

[Munir]

The needed funding and this was handy trick to get it...

Your source is not working and is probably not objective.

 

[Neo]

oh btw MiG_ACE, if the su-30's could match the F-15's, imagine what the MKI's would do to the F-16's!

MKI's main advantage over the F-15E/F, F-18E/F or even the block 52 F-16C/D is not the TVC capability or the EW suit but the powerful radar but in a BVR scenario supported with Aew&cs it loses the edge.
Israeli avionics are no doubt good but American counterparts are far superior.

TVC provides you higher manoeverablity in a dogflight but try to avoid an Aim-9x when it has a lock on you.

It would be interesting to see IDAF F-16I take on the MKI without any restrictions.
I'm sure the results will be stunning.

 

[Munir]

During war against the Spanish armade (the largest and best ships at that moment) lost the battle against the Dutch wich had smaller older ships...

With smaller RCS, agile missiles and netcentric approach there is hardly a need for a big mki... Nice moves with TVC are handy for airshows but I don't hear anyone getting scared. Maybe the Russians are good in aerobatic planes but the western approach is about winning the airwar...

MKI is more or less an impressive plane but the arena is not the same anymore. PAF adopted new strategy (ground radar, netcentric, IFR, AWACS, low RCS, BVR etc etc) while IAF is stilling enjoying a few MKI and a lot of Mig21's...

 

[Goodperson]

OK try this

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-iaf-usaf-su30-f15-article01.html

Munir there is no point in arguing with you, As you feel USAF is fool to field less capable plane and technologies to get funding for F-22. Read the article
and see the facts.

You do seem to have pre concieved bias so no point in covincing you.

 

[Munir]

your source:

In these offensive and defensive missions, four F-15Cs were usually flying against 10 or 12 of the same model Indian fighter, according to Col. Greg Neubeck, deputy commander of operations for the wing’s 3rd Operations Group and exercise director for Cope India. The 3rd Operations Group is responsible for the 3rd Wing’s flying mission...

...He emphasized the fact that U.S. forces were always outnumbered in these scenarios, but said the missions proved more difficult than expected.

About those other restrictions... They were there. Go to f16.net or some other forums... I don't feel the need to do more work to prove the same I already said.

I am not biassed... I ook at the broader picture... That makes you biassed...

 

[Goodperson]

Now, granted, the Indians had the Americans outnumbered: usually 10 or 12 to 4, during the Cope India air combat exercise held 2004 February at the Gwalior Air Force Station. But American officials also credited Indian pilots with being "very proficient in [their] aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome," USAF Col. Greg Neubeck told Inside the Air Force. (The article is off-limits to those who don't subscribe. But The Times of India is running major excerpts.)

"The adversaries are better than we thought," Col. Mike Snodgrass added. "And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated."

According to the magazine, "The Indians flew a number of different fighters, including the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian-made MIG-27 and MIG-29, but the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MIG-21, and the SU-30K Flanker, also made in Russia."


http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000976.html


Plus Cope India is annual exercise and India did carry out exercises with France earlier and Singapore later too.

 

[MIG_ACE]

"MKI is more or less an impressive plane but the arena is not the same anymore. PAF adopted new strategy (ground radar, netcentric, IFR, AWACS, low RCS, BVR etc etc) while IAF is stilling enjoying a few MKI and a lot of Mig21's..."

A few facts.

India has bought green pine and aerostat radars to boost its ground radar capability.The new network centric warfare capability has already been flagged off( i'll try to get u a link but it was widely reported in the indian media) India is also buying Phalcon AWACS. The IAF mirage-2000,mig-29,su-30MKI and Mig-21 bison are all already BVR capable.

OK here's the link...

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200510180904.htm

 

[Munir]

Now, granted, the Indians had the Americans outnumbered: usually 10 or 12 to 4, during the Cope India air combat exercise held 2004 February at the Gwalior Air Force Station. But American officials also credited Indian pilots with being "very proficient in [their] aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome," USAF Col. Greg Neubeck told Inside the Air Force. (The article is off-limits to those who don't subscribe. But The Times of India is running major excerpts.)

"The adversaries are better than we thought," Col. Mike Snodgrass added. "And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated."

According to the magazine, "The Indians flew a number of different fighters, including the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian-made MIG-27 and MIG-29, but the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MIG-21, and the SU-30K Flanker, also made in Russia."


http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000976.html


Plus Cope India is annual exercise and India did carry out exercises with France earlier and Singapore later too.

Maybe they anticipated them as turkey shoot? One other thing that suproses me is that Indian pilots/media are the only one to shout that they have beated opponents badly... It is a matter of respect not to degrade opponents during training. There you are with a top western F15 limited on all levels and fighting in outnumbered situation... What else would you expect?

Let me put it differently... you will go with MKI to the US. There you will fight a4 skyhawk and f5 freedom fighter. You are not allowed to use BVR, BVR radar modes, HMS, and you will be always fighting 4 versus 12... I think the US will still say positive words about you... Purely respect.