India: World's Largest Mobocracy

[SuvarnaTeja]

Ok. Answer ONE question. Did Aryan invaders introduce the caste system to the subcontinent?

Your question itself shows how shallow your knowledge is.

What ancient India had was varnas but they were not fixed. They were meant for a purpose. The higher the Varna the greater is the punishment.

For example,

The Greatest Rishi Vishwamitra was born Kshatriya.

The Greatest King Daksha was a Brahman.

Ravana the King of Dravidians was a Brahman.

The Great Rishis Vyasa and Valmiki were born Sudras.

 

[Crixus]

Did you find the list of temples constructed on Buddhist stupas .... let me give you the list of mosques over Hindus temples if you want?

Those Mughals were just Uzbekistani thieves, plunderers and butchers nothing more

Ok. Answer ONE question. Did Aryan invaders introduce the caste system to the subcontinent?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Your question itself shows how shallow your knowledge is.

What ancient India had was varnas but they were not fixed. They were meant for a purpose. The higher the Varna the greater is the punishment.

For example,

The Greatest Rishi Vishwamitra was born Kshatriya.

The Greatest King Daksha was a Brahman.

Ravana the King of Dravidians was a Brahman.

The Great Rishis Vyasa and Valmiki were born Sudras.

The wording is not important. The concept is. Did Aryans invade the subcontinent and did they implement/introduce/propagate a caste system?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Did you find the list of temples constructed on Buddhist stupas .... let me give you the list of mosques over Hindus temples if you want?

Those Mughals were just Uzbekistani thieves, plunderers and butchers nothing more

. I provided you with references already. Read post 149. Or rather, stop pretending you haven't read it.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Mughals were just Uzbekistani thieves, plunderers and butchers nothing more

They looted temple wealth looted from the poor of the subcontinent. They butchered backwards people who sacrificed humans.

They were invaders who improved the lives of millions. What did Aryan invaders do for you?

 

[Crixus]

No names, no locations, no timelines in your articles, it was just he did this he did that ...... so better provide some relevant links.

There is specific timelines, name of Uzbekistani thieves and name of temples and mosques constructed over them ...

. I provided you with references already. Read post 149. Or rather, stop pretending you haven't read it.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

The wording is not important. The concept is. Did Aryans invade the subcontinent and did they implement/introduce/propagate a caste system?

Of course the concepts and purpose are totally different.

Varnas were not fixed by birth. As I said earlier, The purpose of varnas was to facilitate law.For example, If one indulges in a theft willingly and in full senses knowing the implications, he/she could be penalized 8 times if being a Shudra, 16 times if being a Vaishya, 32 times if being a Kshatriya and 64-128 times if being a Brahman. In other words, the punishment was directly proportional to knowledge and social status of the criminal.

Coming to Caste, It is fixed by birth. it was a medieval concept that took birth in the last few hundred years after the advent of Islamic and Colonial powers in the subcontinent. There is no mention of caste in any historical dharmic texts. Islamic and colonial powers used castes to divide and rule the subcontinent.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

No names, no locations, no timelines in your articles, it was just he did this he did that ...... so better provide some relevant links.

There is specific timelines, name of Uzbekistani thieves and name of temples and mosques constructed over them ...

"However, a 12th century text states that Sasanka persecuted Buddhists with a vengeance and endeavored to extirpate the Buddhists from his dominions. He allegedly destroyed innumerable Buddhist stupas and converted viharas to Hindu temples in places such as Nalanda, Bodhgaya, Sarnath and Mathura. It is also alleged that he cut the Bodhi tree where the Buddha found enlightenment, in the Mahabodhi Temple of Bodh Gaya. What we see today is not the original tree"

Now stop bothering me with your nonsense that medieval Hindus were somehow a magical and holy people who didn't indulge in religious violence. You were and still are. Hindu kings raided buddhists, Muslims and other hindus. It's all documented, many times over. Search on this forum. Be my guest. It's all there. I'm not your personal librarian.

 

[Crixus]

Which buddhist text , who was the author and which stupas were destroyed, and which temples constructed over them , Bodh gaya is still buddhist with buddhist temple from Gupta time is still there :

And just FYI Sasanka ( 7th century)ruled after Gutas(6th century ) , Sasanks demolished but left the biggest Buddhist temple ?

This is what distructed site looks like , this is what Bakhtiya Kilji did one more thief and plundere in the long list :

"However, a 12th century text states that Sasanka persecuted Buddhists with a vengeance and endeavored to extirpate the Buddhists from his dominions. He allegedly destroyed innumerable Buddhist stupas and converted viharas to Hindu temples in places such as Nalanda, Bodhgaya, Sarnath and Mathura. It is also alleged that he cut the Bodhi tree where the Buddha found enlightenment, in the Mahabodhi Temple of Bodh Gaya. What we see today is not the original tree"

Now stop bothering me with your nonsense that medieval Hindus were somehow a magical and holy people who didn't indulge in religious violence. You were and still are. Hindu kings raided buddhists, Muslims and other hindus. It's all documented, many times over. Search on this forum. Be my guest. It's all there. I'm not your personal librarian.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Of course the concepts and purpose are totally different.

Varnas were not fixed by birth. As I said earlier, The purpose of varnas was to facilitate law.For example, If one indulges in a theft willingly and in full senses knowing the implications, he/she could be penalized 8 times if being a Shudra, 16 times if being a Vaishya, 32 times if being a Kshatriya and 64-128 times if being a Brahman. In other words, the punishment was directly proportional to knowledge and social status of the criminal.

Coming to Caste, It is fixed by birth. it was a medieval concept that took birth in the last few hundred years after the advent of Islamic and Colonial powers in the subcontinent. There is no mention of caste in any historical dharmic texts. Islamic and colonial powers used castes to divide and rule the subcontinent.

What idiocy. So quite simply, did Aryans introduce the concept of stratifying social class on the basis of skin colour (and by consequence, by birth status), or did they not introduce this
? Before they arrived, were the elephant riders of the gangetic plains stratified socially by the position they were born into or not?

If Aryans introduced it (and there is overwhelming evidence that the white skinned Aryans did murder or enslave dark skinned natives on a caste basis), then why blame later empires who simply saw a method of quickly and easily taking advantage of a system already in place?

Your moral dilemma is simple. You either believe Aryans invaded and brought caste with them, or you believe something else. Go ahead and believe what you like.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

What idiocy. So quite simply, did Aryans introduce the concept of stratifying social class on the basis of skin colour (and by consequence, by birth status), or did they not introduce this
? Before they arrived, were the elephant riders of the gangetic plains stratified socially by the position they were born into or not?

If Aryans introduced it (and there is overwhelming evidence that the white skinned Aryans did murder or enslave dark skinned natives on a caste basis), then why blame later empires who simply saw a method of quickly and easily taking advantage of a system already in place?

Your moral dilemma is simple. You either believe Aryans invaded and brought caste with them, or you believe something else. Go ahead and believe what you like.

Aryans were natives of the ancient India and Persia which included Central Asia and West Asia.

Over the centuries Aryans lost lands in West Asia and Central Asia to other invading forces like Arabs, Turks & Mongols.

 

[Rakesh]

I had NEVER thought India was ever a democracy. This is not some emotional rant. Having lived a lifetime in America and Pakistan I can fairly compare repressive systems (like Pakistan and India) vs something resembling a democracy.

Change of govts through ballots is not a valid yard sticks of democracies. It takes much more than that. By every criteria India was always a communal state where the Hindu majority was biding its time to strike and strike it did! Decades of cosmetic measures like the Muslim Bollywood stars and even a Muslim President (with a peon's real authority) and similar ones could never hide the brutal massacres of Muslims and Sikhs (and less reported against lower Caste Hindus) happening throughout India's history. And I mean BIG MASSACRES!! Forget Muslims if you have an anti-Muslim leaning. Ask the Sikhs about what happened in 1984!! The massacres in India would make KKK, the Jim Crow Laws, the Lynchings in America to look like child's play.

So the Court's decision about Babri Masjid is not a surprise at all. And in the same way the Court's delaying on the verdict on the annexation of Indian Occupied Kashmir is another indication of how compliant and FAKE the mightiest Court in India really is.

India is not the world's biggest democracy. It is the world's BIGGEST HYPOCRISY!!

Your analysis is correct but conclusion is erroneous. Yes change of governments through ballots is not a valid yard stick of democracies.

If there is no mechanism in the form of functional institutions, based on principal of neutrality than the so called democracy is farce. This was very well understood by our founding fathers and they created enough safe guards in constitution.

There are article 15(1), article 30(1) and many other provisions of constitution for safe guarding the right of minorities.

Question is whether these provisions are implemented in letter and spirit. There shall always be some who will try to circumvent the constitution and will try to impose its will on people.

However, this particular aspect was also considered by Supreme Court and it was settled once for all by a judgement that basic structure of constitution can not be changed.

If you have followed the anti-CAA movement, you must have seen, most of the Muslims were protesting by reading preamble of constitution, because constitutions of India is the contract between its people and state. People will always expect State to honor the contract. If state fails to do so, then there will be chaos.
That is the reason, the present government took the route of court and didn't follow the path of legislation for Ram mandir in Ayodhya. Thus giving impression that they are following the path of constitution (no matter how farcical it looks.)

People know institutions are not always fair in their actions, but they know as long as guiding principal is just and impartial, there is a hope.
This also, solves the puzzle, "what makes Indian Muslims support India?"

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Aryans were natives of the ancient India and Persia which included Central Asia and West Asia.

Over the centuries Aryans lost lands in West Asia and Central Asia to other invading forces like Arabs, Turks & Mongols.

Lolz. And there we have it. "Out of India" in all its unadulterated and unabashed glory.

You people are an embarrassment to mankind.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Lolz. And there we have it. "Out of India" in all its unadulterated and unabashed glory.

You people are an embarrassment to mankind.

And you think Aryans emigrated from Central Asia to Persia/Iran too?

Did they emigrate to West Asia too?

 

[Chhatrapati]

Did Aryans invade the subcontinent and did they implement/introduce/propagate a caste system?

Is there any proof of the theory? It's a proposition made in the 17th or 18th century Britishers without any archeological pieces of evidence. Since then inward and outward theory has been proposed, but without any scientific backing, i.e from the time when IVC ended the supposed Aryan arrival there is no archeological evidence to suggest when and where or how they came. There were no texts, no evidence for an invasion, nothing. The word Aryan which supposedly described in Vedas itself has nothing to do with Horse riding white 'Vikings' or central Asians.

They looted temple wealth looted from the poor of the subcontinent. They butchered backwards people who sacrificed humans.

They were invaders who improved the lives of millions. What did Aryan invaders do for you?

Bullshit, wealth in Temples are not state coffers, they are offerings made by citizens including merchants for their good luck. That's why there are temples in India now with treasures coming as Roman coins, or pearls and cut diamonds that are of foreign origins and gold statues, diamonds anklets etc... Those invaders desecrated the temple because of their religious obligation to do so. Not for distributing wealth among poor kinda robin hood crap.

Most invaders were interested in wealth, had no interest in the welfare and the Subcontinent was fertile, and wealthy, unlike the desert they came from.