India wields oil 'weapon' to cut dependence on Saudi Arabia

[The Maverick]

Saudi will not be upsetting their 3rd largest customer in the world.

good business .. is listen to your customer we make Saudi billions of dollars

yes treat weak incompetent countries,with contempt but India is massive customer and will demand certain changes. They are a major player and they have voice which will.be heard loud and clear everywhere

 

[krash]

He can bully small countries like Pakistan. But with India, which is his third largest oil buyer, he'll tread carefully. But let's just wait and see.

Saudi will not be upsetting their 3rd largest customer in the world.

good business .. is listen to your customer we make Saudi billions of dollars

yes treat weak incompetent countries,with contempt but India is massive customer and will demand certain changes. They are a major player and they have voice which will.be heard loud and clear everywhere

Oh God....who will the Saudis sell their oil to if India doesn't buy it!? India, OTOH, has suppliers linning up at its door. If only it wasn't the most inelastic commodity in the world.

Seriously though, the Saudi's should learn from the Chinese. Given the extent of trade between India and China, the Chinese never dared to beat the Indians black and blue, literally.

 

[nahtanbob]

a bunch of hapless Pakistanis hoping the Saudis do things to India they cannot do

 

[magra]

Oh God....who will the Saudis sell their oil to if India doesn't buy it!? India, OTOH, has suppliers linning up at its door. If only it wasn't the most inelastic commodity in the world.

Seriously though, the Saudi's should learn from the Chinese. Given the extent of trade between India and China, the Chinese never dared to beat the Indians black and blue, literally.

Other countries cant suddenly create more demand for oil to buy from Saudi if India stops buying from them.
Whereas other countries such as US are eager to find new buyers and are ready to pump more oil if demand is there.

 

[krash]

Other countries cant suddenly create more demand for oil to buy from Saudi if India stops buying from them.

Incorrect. The demand for oil is infinite for the supplier who has the lowest cost/price, provided it is not producing more than the entire demand of the planet.

Whereas other countries such as US are eager to find new buyers and are ready to pump more oil if demand is there.

The US is eager for more buyers because the oil they are trying to sell is priced higher owing to higher costs of production. For example, the Saudis, in certain situations, outcompete both Canadian and US oil producers for the US market. The Canadians outcompete the US producers on the West Cost due to lower logistical costs. Did you not wonder why the US was looking for buyers for its own oil while still importing from the Saudis and Canadians? It took them 35 years to rid themselves of Saudi oil, for political goals. The Saudis did not bat an eye. Most believe it won't last for long. In 2016 the costs per barrel for the three countries was as below,

1) US shale: $23.35
2) US non-shale: $20.99
3) Canada: $26.64
4) Saudi Arabia: $8.98

If India stops buying from the Saudis they will sell it to the next country inline. That country will reduce its orders from, say, Canada and then India will end up buying from Canada for a much higher price.

So, no. While these fantastical claims might help Indians sleep better at night, India holds no chips against the Saudis in the Oil market. Especially when they control OPEC. Time to realize your reach does not exceed Bangladesh, Nepal, and Sri Lanka.

 

[Protest_again]

Incorrect. The demand for oil is infinite for the supplier who has the lowest cost/price, provided it is not producing more than the entire demand of the planet.



The US is eager for more buyers because the oil they are trying to sell is priced higher owing to higher costs of production. For example, the Saudis, in certain situations, outcompete both Canadian and US oil producers for the US market. The Canadians outcompete the US producers on the West Cost due to lower logistical costs. Did you not wonder why the US was looking for buyers for its own oil while still importing from the Saudis and Canadians? It took them 35 years to rid themselves of Saudi oil, for political goals. The Saudis did not bat an eye. In 2016 the costs per barrel for the three countries was as below,

1) US shale: $23.35
2) US non-shale: $20.99
3) Canada: $26.64
4) Saudi Arabia: $8.98

If India stops buying from the Saudis they will sell it to the next country inline. That country will reduce its orders from, say, Canada and then India will end up buying from Canada for a much higher price.

So, no. While these fantastical claims might help Indians sleep better at night, India holds no chips against the Saudis in the Oil market. Especially when they control OPEC.

Why not wait and see how Saudi will react to our overtures. Pakistanis should be last to advise others on strategic moves. Also India's oil requirements are growing by 10% year on year. Per recent report, India is expected to double its oil consumption by 2025. It is a huge market, no other market can replace India in the world. Atleast Saudis are prudent when it comes to money and trade unlike Pakistan. Why do you think Modi is given highest civilian award by both UAE and Saudi. May be it is better you leave this discussion to Saudis and us.

 

[magra]

Incorrect. The demand for oil is infinite for the supplier who has the lowest cost/price, provided it is not producing more than the entire demand of the planet.

I can answer you on the condition that you dont ban me using your moderator powers.
Demand for any commodity is always finite. You dont buy stuff you dont need. Other buyers like China are already buying all they want. They wont suddenly start buying more because India cancelled some orders from Saudi.

The US is eager for more buyers because the oil they are trying to sell is priced higher owing to higher costs of production. For example, the Saudis, in certain situations, outcompete both Canadian and US oil producers for the US market. The Canadians outcompete the US producers on the West Cost due to lower logistical costs. Did you not wonder why the US was looking for buyers for its own oil while still importing from the Saudis and Canadians? It took them 35 years to rid themselves of Saudi oil, for political goals. The Saudis did not bat an eye. Most believe it won't last for long. In 2016 the costs per barrel for the three countries was as below,

1) US shale: $23.35
2) US non-shale: $20.99
3) Canada: $26.64
4) Saudi Arabia: $8.98

If India stops buying from the Saudis they will sell it to the next country inline. That country will reduce its orders from, say, Canada and then India will end up buying from Canada for a much higher price.

So, no. While these fantastical claims might help Indians sleep better at night, India holds no chips against the Saudis in the Oil market. Especially when they control OPEC. Time to realize your reach does not exceed Bangladesh, Nepal, and Sri Lanka.

US was an oil importer eariler but not anymore since they produce their need domestically. Ofcourse middle eastern oil is cheaper, and India would prefer to buy from there. This is just to show Saudi that we will take some losses but wont fall for your blackmail.
Within sometime, sanctions on Iran will ease and then India will start buying the much cheaper Iranian oil. Saudis will have even less leverage then.

 

[krash]

Why not wait and see how Saudi will react to our overtures.

Yeah, sure.

Pakistanis should be last to advise others on strategic moves.

Given the quality of your posts here I'd wager an amoeba would be beyond well suited to advise you.

I, OTOH, was not advising anything at all. Merely deflating the air from your dreamt up 56" chest. You know, something us Pakistanis are the best at.

Also India's oil requirements are growing by 10% year on year. Per recent report, India is expected to double its oil consumption by 2025. It is a huge market, no other market can replace India in the world.

So, you did not understand a word of the post you've quoted. Best you ask for a simplified explanation next time before responding with the same nonsensical fantasies. The Saudis have the entire world who is willing to buy from them for the same or better price that they were selling it to you for. Who will your "huge market" buy it from for the price the Saudis were selling it to you for?

Atleast Saudis are prudent when it comes to money and trade unlike Pakistan.

No one is more prudent when it comes to money than you guys. Let's see if you have the integrity to pay much higher per barrel from another country.

Btw, which country will you buy it from if you don't buy it from the Saudis? You know it can't be one from OPEC, right? So none of the 8 out of the 10 countries you import most of your oil from?

Why do you think Modi is given highest civilian award by both UAE and Saudi.

To placate the child with a lollipop. By the looks of your post, it's working quite well.

May be it is better you leave this discussion to Saudis and us.

Why? Because my words don't let you create your pretty little fantasies?

 

[Protest_again]

Yeah, sure.



Given the quality of your posts here I'd wager an amoeba would be beyond well suited to advise you.

I, OTOH, was not advising anything at all. Merely deflating the air from your dreamt up 56" chest. You know, something us Pakistanis are the best at.



So, you did not understand a word of the post you've quoted. Best you ask for a simplified explanation next time before responding with the same nonsensical fantasies. The Saudis have the entire world who is willing to buy from them for the same or better price that they were selling it to you for. Who will your "huge market" buy it from for the price the Saudis were selling it to you for?



No one is more prudent when it comes to money than you guys. Let's see if you have the integrity to pay much higher per barrel from another country.

Btw, which country will you buy it from if you don't buy it from the Saudis? You know it can't be one from OPEC, right? So none of the 8 out of the 10 countries you import most of your oil from?



To placate the child with a lollipop. By the looks of your post, it's working quite well.



Why? Because my words don't let you create your pretty little fantasies?

Quality of my posts vary for people of different nationalities. You obviously are a poor judge.
I am not loosing sleep over it.

Rest of the post is just gibberish from a Pakistani with a skewed viewpoint when it comes to India. I hope you'll leave it to India and Saudi to work it out. Soon Saudi will be making a deal with India, just watch this space.

PS: Don't ban me.

 

[KurtisBrian]

I can answer you on the condition that you dont ban me using your moderator powers.
Demand for any commodity is always finite. You dont buy stuff you dont need. Other buyers like China are already buying all they want. They wont suddenly start buying more because India cancelled some orders from Saudi.


US was an oil importer eariler but not anymore since they produce their need domestically. Ofcourse middle eastern oil is cheaper, and India would prefer to buy from there. This is just to show Saudi that we will take some losses but wont fall for your blackmail.
Within sometime, sanctions on Iran will ease and then India will start buying the much cheaper Iranian oil. Saudis will have even less leverage then.

build electric rail, electric cars, clean coal power plants and nuclear power plants.
It is clean fresh water and electricity that makes the world amazing not oil.
Electricity can replace oil in many instances.

Pakistan now has surplus electricity. Freedom from the Arabs and USA is close.

 

[magra]

build electric rail, electric cars, clean coal power plants and nuclear power plants.
It is clean fresh water and electricity that makes the world amazing not oil.
Electricity can replace oil in many instances.

Pakistan now has surplus electricity. Freedom from the Arabs and USA is close.

India is moving towards renewable energy, but complete stop to fossil fuels cannot happen overnight.

 

[Protest_again]

India is moving towards renewable energy, but complete stop to fossil fuels cannot happen overnight.

India will just fasten the electric mobility option in my opinion. China has been aggressive in this regard. As consumption goes down, oil suppliers control on production will go down too. Then it will be buyers market. I hope OPEC will not be treated the same way it is treating buyers now. Then it will be tough for Saudi in particular.

 

[krash]

I can answer you on the condition that you dont ban me using your moderator powers.

Childish attempt at ad hominem. You weren't banned the last time you kept derailing the thread after express repeated warnings against it.

Demand for any commodity is always finite. You dont buy stuff you dont need. Other buyers like China are already buying all they want. They wont suddenly start buying more because India cancelled some orders from Saudi.

I don't think my post was very confusing, the concept is very simple to understand. If you purposefully do not want to acknowledge it because it flies in the face of how you wish it was, then I'd at least advise against responding just for the sake of it.

The Chinese will switch suppliers when a cheaper supplier becomes available. Everyone and anyone would. The Saudis are the cheapest out there. Like I said, not a difficult concept to understand.

US was an oil importer eariler but not anymore since they produce their need domestically.

I wonder what physical constraint forbade you from performing a quick google search before posting here. That too for a fact as obvious as this. Did you think that I would just take your word for it?

EIA forecasts the U.S. will import more petroleum than it exports in 2021 and 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

.

Ofcourse middle eastern oil is cheaper, and India would prefer to buy from there. This is just to show Saudi that we will take some losses but wont fall for your blackmail.

And, as explained before, the Saudis will tell you that they won't take any losses or strong arming from India.

India will not take "some" losses since the entirety of OPEC is under Saudi thumb. Where will you import all that oil from?

Within sometime, sanctions on Iran will ease and then India will start buying the much cheaper Iranian oil. Saudis will have even less leverage then.

Iran is an OPEC member. Do you know how OPEC works?

 

[magra]

India will just fasten the electric mobility option in my opinion. China has been aggressive in this regard. As consumption goes down, oil suppliers control on production will go down too. Then it will be buyers market. I hope OPEC will not be treated the same way it is treating buyers now. Then it will be tough for Saudi in particular.

Although contribution of oil in energy mix will reduce in percentage terms, in absolute terms it will rise for the next 2 decades. Thats because of the increasing energy demand.
So OPEC will continue to hold some power in the medium term. However, India being a big importer will obviously have good bargaining power as well.

 

[Protest_again]

And, as explained before, the Saudis will tell you that they won't take any losses or strong arming from India.

India will not take "some" losses since the entirety of OPEC is under Saudi thumb. Where will you import all that oil from?

US pips Saudi Arabia as second largest exporter of crude oil to India

India spent $101.4 billion on crude oil imports in 2019-20 and $111.9 billion in 2018-19. It is a key refining hub in Asia, with an installed capacity of over 249.36 million tonnes per annum. It has 23 refineries and plans to grow its refining capacity to 400 mtpa by 2025

Do you really think Saudi could afford to loose a customer with $100 billion purse and growing? Just as Malaysia learned its lesson with palm oil, so will Saudi.


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