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India v/s China: We’ve got Facebook! What’ve you got?

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An interesting analysis in TIME magazine, to the extent that it tries to be an analysis:

The ChIndian Century
And don’t forget to check out these two accompanying arguments, one for India and one for China:

The Case for India: Free to Succeed
The Case for China: The Power of Planning

I plan to blog about this general issue sometime soon. Right now however, I just can’t help commenting on just two points for the time being, particularly because many westerners have humongous misconceptions about these issues. Almost every article on the topic contains at least a reference to these two fallacious points.

From the Case for India article:

The only way either economy can keep growth roaring is to develop high-tech industries and innovative companies — a difficult leap that demands the type of smartly run companies India already has. It also requires democracy and civil liberties. By censoring the Internet, controlling the press and stifling debate, Beijing is suppressing the open exchange of information and risk-taking spirit necessary for entrepreneurial innovation. Indians, enjoying full freedom of expression and association, face no such hurdles
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This absolutely bullshit view – that of relating internet censorship and “human rights” to entrepreneurial spirit and scientific research, and concluding that the former stifles the later – is so common, especially in the west, that it really makes one wonder whether people have lost the ability to think. And I am not talking about the ability to think in any profoundly intellectual way – just normal thinking that separates Homo Sapiens as a species from, say, American politicians.

Analysts and Journalists focus only on the tiny, miniscule, 0.0001% of search results that China does censor – and then extrapolate it to conclude that this will negatively affect (“stiffle” is their favorite word) entrepreneurial spirit and scientific research. Yes – China does censor certain search terms. But what does a search result relating to the Dalai Lama have to do with a citizen who wants to begin a tech startup? How pray will a scientist’s research in quantum physics be affected if the Chinese government censors his google search results about Tiananmen?? (I can just see the headline now – China lags in Physics research due to government cover up of Tiananmen massacre, says scientist). How did the team that created the Sunway system (whose theoretical peak performance is 74% faster than the fastest US supercomputer, and it used homegrown chips) be stifled when they realized that they can’t use Facebook and Twitter?

“Screw government grants and cutting-edge research facilities!” – they’ll say. “We want to tweet and protest. We’re going to India – the land of freedom. So what if its richest city has 42% of its population living in slums and where more people have mobile phones than access to a proper toilet??! We don’t care about about living standards!!! We want freedom of speech and a free internet!! And not just the 99.9999% free internet that China offers! No sir – for us, that 0.00001% censored search results are more important!”

Now that I think of it – this will make for a good Onion story. I can just see the headline now – Scientist prefers Facebook over better standards of living. “It will make life better for my children” he says.

Another piece of BS:

We can also make the case that India is more entrepreneurial than China. Indian firms like Infosys, Tata Consultancy Services and Wipro practically invented the entire offshore IT-services industry — a sector China is now attempting to copy. At their ever expanding campuses, these companies train and absorb thousands of new hires each year while extending their reach to every corner of the globe — management challenges Chinese executives would struggle to tackle
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The BPO industry in India is based on call-center employees answering stupid phone calls from stupid customers in the US and other countries (BTW – that anecdote about Americans calling to say that their computers are not working when they were not actually plugged in – is actually true). All these call center employees (who go by the fanciful title of “executives”) have no technical skills whatsoever – they just read out the instructions that appear to them on their help screen to customers. It is common knowledge in India that people work at a call center iff (if and only if) they can’t get employment anywhere else – and a few do it for the money. It is nobody’s – and I mean nobody’s – first choice. In fact, joining a call-center is considered a sort of slur and an insult – that they couldn’t get employed anywhere else and had to join a call center and had to work night shifts. In a nutshell – they are “unemployable”. This is the sector that has put India on the global map.

NASSCOM says that 90% Graduates and 75% Engineers in India are unemployable. That explains why companies like Infosys and TCS have to spend an average of 6-8 months and spend crores of rupees training engineering graduates. Yes – those people have already acquired degrees – and they still need months of training! A very large number (perhaps the majority, though I can’t verify it) of fresh engineering graduates that these companies hire during campus recruitment drives – are actually graduates from non-software fields, such as Electronics, Telecommunication, Mechanical etc. And then they train them in software and teach them a few languages, and they are ready and qualified to work in a software MNC! Whatever they learnt in most of the past four years gone to waste – never to be used again. In fact, one recruiter from a major MNC once told me that they just require the “aptitude” of an engineer, they are going to teach them everything else anyway.

Name one software product that has come out of this so-called IT superpower. Name one Indian university that has broken into the top 100 in the world. Name just one piece of innovation (software or otherwise) that you’ve heard of that has come from India, despite its “freedom”. But who cares? We’ve got Facebook!

India v/s China: We've got Facebook. What've you got? | Hidden Harmonies China Blog
 
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While I agree with some of what you say, you have to admit, that freedom does do something for the mind. Though due to the Indian mind set (somewhat like the chinese not trying to bash you guys) how free are you? What with family, society and all being much tighter.

What I will say is this, has America forgot Nazi Germany? All the innovations that came from Europe? How free was Europe then? What about the Russians? Are they free under Stalin? Or free now?

Chinese behind in stuff is because of lack of scientific development during the Qing dynasty. Now China is trying to catch up to the West. If you look at Chinese innovations, it's so much more than a compass, so the Chinese can't innovate is baseless.

As to freedom, is freedom not relative? For all the articles that says China isn't free, how many have actually asked the general public how "oppressed" they feel. Oh and please don't show me the stupid video of a few people saying China sucks, there's a video that shows Americans don't know who fought in WW2, are Americans stupid? No, those people are.

As to political freedom, China is in transition more and more regulations will be setup so time will tell. Elections are a way people choose the leader, but you think there is no conflict in the Chinese government? There is a line that stretches 2 miles for a position of stewardess, how far do you think the line stretches for the Presidency of China?

Hu Jintao is he not from the poor? Has Xi's years in the poor country not tough or tougher than anything Obama faced? They climbed just as far in not further than Obama in the political ladder and I can say I trust the country in their hand. Who's to say that if election happened it won't be those people anyways?

China has many, perhaps too many flaws, but the Chinese people are working on it and if one thing the Chinese's got that the West don't is if a Chinese person is more realistic. A Chinese will look to improve himself rather than they world around him. This may seem selfish and perhaps ineffective, but enough people do it, you are changing the world, because you are part of it.

Occupy wall street is of course American, does those bums seriously think if wall street didn't exist then or now that they would be better? Would the Americans be relying on uneducated red necks? They like that cars can get them places, but the first sign of trouble, they say that cars should never exist.
 
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Didn't read too much of that but, I gotta say, Facebook is a horrible abomination that I hope will go away one day.

That's why I come here to chat with you fine people.
 
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India, a so called democratic country censors more than China, a communist country.

The fallacy of democracy & securalism in India. :tdown:

India is only democratic & secular by name. In ideology & culture it is not.
 
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Didn't read too much of that but, I gotta say, Facebook is a horrible abomination that I hope will go away one day.

That's why I come here to chat with you fine people.

On the subject of facebook, isn't censoring a form of protecting Chinese companies. On the surface, yea you can't be here, but in reality Chinese social media has flourished.

Why is Indian government not interested in developing India's own?
@JayAtl
you quote bloomberg? Why do you hate yourself, sometimes I think India is too comfortable with the west. Buying weapons, using their stuff and stuff like that. No plan to develop own stuff.

China uses too, but is always suspicious and always looking to develop a way out.
 
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Why is Indian government not interested in developing India's own?
@JayAtl
you quote bloomberg? Why do you hate yourself, sometimes I think India is too comfortable with the west. Buying weapons, using their stuff and stuff like that. No plan to develop own stuff.

China uses too, but is always suspicious and always looking to develop a way out.

You are asking me why I quoted a well sourced article- when you fall over a BLOG POST made on a chinese fanclub site? Am I missing something here .... heh

You bought a lot of weapons at one time. Difference is you had/have a very very limited market to buy from. Where were you when you were only a 2 trillion economy? And why would India not buy the latest and greatest while they build their industries?

Nobody knows much about your weapons, it's not like it is (99% of them) bench marked in the open market. Why are you buying the SU -35? being such a great developer of super duper stuff...?

Why do NATO nations buy stuff off each other?

So India has access to everyone in the world - they are taking advantage of it. Very smart of them. They will by the time at 7 trillion GDP like you probably have more advanced technologies thanks to JV's with the world leaders. I think that is smart and I think their non aligned policies are reaping them great benefits.
 
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The US spies on people through facebook, google and other websites, collecting and filtering massive amounts of personal data. Now they are crying because they can't spy on China.
 
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The US spies on people through facebook, google and other websites, collecting and filtering massive amounts of personal data. Now they are crying because they can't spy on China.

We don't need to spy, we have stealth B2's that can fly to you cities and come back without refueling.

:usflag:

India, a so called democratic country censors more than China, a communist country.

The fallacy of democracy & securalism in India. :tdown:

India is only democratic & secular by name. In ideology & culture it is not.

Yeah , they should follow your model. The envy of the world. Can you please knock some sense into these Indians, while you are at it- rest of the world too. They all don't know what their missing .
 
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We don't need to spy, we have stealth B2's that can fly to you cities and come back without refueling.

:usflag:



Yeah , they should follow your model. The envy of the world. Can you please knock some sense into these Indians, while you are at it- rest of the world too. They all don't know what their missing .

Who's "we"?

Americans don't consider immigrants their own.

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It's not about Pakistan, Indian.
 
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Who's "we"?

Americans don't consider immigrants their own.

----

It's not about Pakistan, Indian.

you are probably thinking our country treats it's minority citizens as second class citizens- like yours.
 
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Who's "we"?

Americans don't consider immigrants their own.

----

It's not about Pakistan, Indian.

On the contrary, here in Canada, they refer to USA as a melting pot. In Canada, we are considered immigrants. In USA, people are just considered American after citizenship. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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