India-U.S. Bilateral: Boeing To Shift F/A-18 Assembly Line If India Buys 200 Jets

[Cyberian]

If Indians proved incapable of assembling the Rafale in India, how will they assemble the F-18?

 

[Taygibay]

If Indians proved incapable of assembling the Rafale in India,

When did that happen?

. . . OH! I see what you mean! HAL; not Indians or India, just HAL!
Don't confuse the two, many Indians are hardworking and serious!

Just sayin' Tay.

 

[SrNair]

We like a good Indo -US relation.
But no thanks we cant afford the diversification of fighter variants again and again.
IAF have Mirage that is why they gave priority to Rafale.
Neither we have time nor have money.
So invest in LCA and FGFA .Rest in AMCA .
A big nation like ours cant depend on foreign tech in future.

 

[Immanuel]

. . . OH! I see what you mean! HAL; not Indians or India, just HAL!
Don't confuse the two, many Indians are hardworking and serious!

Just sayin' Tay.[/QUOTE]

Complete hogwash, HAL has building the MKI for many years now and the MKI is just as good if not in many areas better than the Rafale. If anything this whole thing of Rafale line in India stinks due to Reliance involved in it. Obviously many have been paid in Govt. to push this forward. Reliance has no experience in building anything remotely aircraft and they will assemble Rafale. haha

Has this 36 for $9BN figure been confirmed by anyone? Until that day there is no point in quoting it as gospel and using it to disparage the Rafale.

An excllent post as always @Taygibay I will just have to address this point:


India has stated offically that it is not looking to build up an enemy-centric military but a broad spectrum military capability congruent with its global aspirations. As such, "peace" with Pakistan would not see any reduction in military capabilty of India maybe just some redeployments.

Also, as it stands, the Indian defence budget is just 1.78% of GDP (far below international norms), 13% of the national budget and but a fraction of the amount spent on education, health and infrastrucutre.

Well the number being spoken of is around 9 billion, it may not be confirmed but its not far from it, they were quoting roughly the same years back to the Brazilians. Either way by the time this deal is signed we'll end up paying the same 9 billion or more which puts the cost of the Rafale at 250 million per bird.

 

[Taygibay]

Reliance has no experience in building anything remotely aircraft and they will assemble Rafale. haha

No but they succeeded at everything they did do ... & I'll be nice and forego answering the first and last parts of your post.

Good luck and day, Tay.

 

[Immanuel]

Of course, since they are!



9 billion is a phantasmagorical number related entirely to the inability of the Indian general press to do its work
and not in any way to Dassault's capacity to do its own.
8 B$ in Brazil was the price for the first 36 with an assembly line to make 72 more under license.
You seem confused between apple and oranges ... maybe even fantasy and reality, I'm sorry to say.

To show this to be true, check the two 6B$ deals with Egypt and Qatar.
Both are for 36 planes ( 24+12 opt. ) but Cairo also gets a FREMM ( how many Arleigh-Burkes with that F-18 line? )
while Doha has ordered enough weapons within its own to change its aerial projection capabilities ten-fold.

Good day both, Tay.

Qatar and Cairo ordered 24 for 6 billion. Neither have the same kind of offsets requirements hence the Rafale will cost India much more. Rafale in Brazil was actually even more than 8 billion. The same can be said for the SH, their offer was 1.5 billion lower. No one here is confused, certainly not me. Rafale is a good aircraft but a complete waste of resources, only being pushed forward now to further interests of certain highly corrupt and powerful people in India. The Super Hornet is a cheaper deal and any given day brings us more strategic benefits than working with the French does.

No but they succeeded at everything they did do ... & I'll be nice and forego answering the first and last parts of your post.

Good luck and day, Tay.

They succeed coz they have deep pockets but a day will come when their luck will run out. No one asks you to be nice

 

[Taygibay]

Qatar and Cairo ordered 24 for 6 billion. Neither have the same kind of offsets requirements hence the Rafale will cost India much more. Rafale in Brazil was actually even more than 8 billion. The same can be said for the SH, their offer was 1.5 billion lower. No one here is confused, certainly not me. Rafale is a good aircraft but a complete waste of resources, only being pushed forward now to further interests of certain highly corrupt and powerful people in India. The Super Hornet is a cheaper deal and any given day brings us more strategic benefits than working with the French does.

And will also reap more? So if negos were well handled at ISO crore spent, less to spend tomorrow?

Again, Brazil would have had license to re-sell to South & Central Americas for the total amount!

REALLY? You should inquire on past support from each ( say on your last nuclear testing for example? ).

But hey, you're entirely entitled to your opinion. I'd just rather be entitled by facts so let's forget it?
Good day, Tay.


P.S.

No one asks you to be nice

Oh yes! I ask it of myself!

 

[herono1]

If Indians proved incapable of assembling the Rafale in India, how will they assemble the F-18?

Boeing will assemble in India by moving assembly plant from US to India.

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

I envy your ambition on claiming F-18 is out dated. As I mentioned earlier, Canadians are still buying them and F-35 is way too costly for them. By contrast, Chinese don't have that luxury to claim something they cannot make as out-dated. Even the old Mig-21 was treasured until the Chinese could make something better.

nobody have balls to attack us's little sister.

 

[Immanuel]

And will also reap more? So if negos were well handled at ISO crore spent, less to spend tomorrow?

Again, Brazil would have had license to re-sell to South & Central Americas for the total amount!

REALLY? You should inquire on past support from each ( say on your last nuclear testing for example? ).

But hey, you're entirely entitled to your opinion. I'd just rather be entitled by facts so let's forget it?
Good day, Tay.


P.S.


Oh yes! I ask it of myself!

Well our nuke testing was old news dear, if we had to keep looking at old news we can't move forward, going by today's news C-17, C-130J, P-8I, Apaches, Chinooks, S-70B on the way and many more to come. Today, we have enough pull to ensure even if testing another nuke today, no body can really do shit. Economic sanctions are out of the question. I actually think we should test our thermo nukes just to prove this point. Actually Rafale should have been done deal3 years ago if it wasn't for the French way of pricing, haggling, pretty much every promise made from Full tot to sources codes were shitted upon. It's quite incredible we continue to have discussions with this company. Rafale deal should have been cancelled with the MRCA.

 

[My-Analogous]

NEW DELHI, DEC.12, 2015: American aerospace major Boeing Company has offered to shift its F/A-18 Super Hornet combat plane assembly line to India if given an assurance that 200 of these jets would be ordered for the Indian armed forces, Arming India has learnt from informed sources.

This is part of the American initiative to dramatically ramp up defense ties with India, a proposal that came up for discussion between Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar and U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter on Dec. 10 at the Pentagon.

The offer is significant in the context of the Indian Air Force (IAF) assertion that the requirement for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft stands despite the direct acquisition of 36 Rafale jets from France, announced in April 2015 by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his visit to Paris.

F/A-18 Super Hornet was one of the losing five combat planes in the 2007 context that was effectively shelved earlier this year following the announcement on the 36 Rafales deal.

IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha has publicly emphasized the continued requirement of an "affordable fighter of the MMRCA class".

The Indian Navy too is expected to have a requirement for 50 to 60 fighter aircraft in the context of the second Indigenous Aircraft Carrier program that India has decided to pursue and which is likely to become a reality around the year 2025.

Boeing Company's Chairman James McNerney, who was in India on Oct. 16 to attend a company-organised aviation summit, had first made the announcement on the firm's offer to build the F/A-18 in India.

An offer similar to Boeing's was made by Lockheed Martin for the F-16 during the visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to the U.S. last September. The Lockheed Martin boss was the only CEO from the American defence industry to have a one-on-one meeting with Modi during that visit.

A competing offer to India on manufacturing a contemporary combat plane in India has also been made by Sweden in the case of Saab's Gripen NG, another contestant in the terminated MMRCA tender.

Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar is said to have confirmed the Boeing Company and Lockheed Martin offers during his just concluded U.S. visit. "They (the US) are very positive on that," Parrikar was quoted as saying during his stay in the U.S.

The U.S., on its part, is said to have indicated that "pre-approvals" could be considered on such proposals, suggesting that the regulatory framework won't be an obstacle.

In another significant move, 17 new proposals have been put on the table to scale up the India-U.S. Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI). Eleven of these proposals have been mooted by the U.S., while India has proposed six. The two sides have concluded two of the six India had suggested and are fast working towards concluding two more, Parrikar said at a joint media interaction with Carter.

"We have identified many new areas for cooperative research and development, and both sides are committed to continue to exchange ideas in the search for additional projects for possible co-development and co-production that meet the spirit of DTTI," confirmed Frank Kendall, the U.S. Under Secretary for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, according to agency reports.

On Dec. 11, the two sides issued a joint statement, even as Parrikar concluded his week-long U.S. visit when he was shown around the Hawaii-based Pacific Command and also went on board the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) aircraft carrier to watch the carrier-borne flight operations.

Here are the key take-aways from the joint statement and media interaction of Parrikar and Carter at the Pentagon:

* The two sides committed to identifying additional projects for possible co-development and co-production of high technology items that meet the transformational intent of DTTI. There have been positive discussions at the Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Cooperation (JWGACTC), especially in the area of Aircraft Launch and Recovery Equipment (ALRE). The second meeting of the JWGACTC will be held in February 2016 in India. The Jet Engine Technology Joint Working Group (JETJWG), which met in Bengaluru in the week Parrikar was in U.S., concluded its Terms of Reference and had productive discussion on cooperation in this area.

* Carter informed Parrikar that in light of the strengthening relationship between the U.S. and India, the DoD has updated its policy on gas turbine engine technology transfer to India. As a result of this policy update, he is confident that the U.S will be able to expand cooperation in production and design of jet engine components. The two sides are looking forward to U.S. companies working with their Indian counterparts to submit transfer requests that will benefit from this updated policy.

* Carter welcomed India's participation in the Rim-of-the-Pacific (RIMPAC) multilateral naval exercise in 2016 as well as participation by the Indian Air Force in the multilateral Red Flag exercise in April-May 2016, and expressed support for greater Air-to-Air interaction in the future. Parrikar welcomed announcement of US participation in the International Fleet Review of the Indian Navy at Visakhapatnam in February 2016. The two sides announced their intent to soon complete a memorandum of understanding between their navies on "white shipping" information sharing. They also welcomed the renewal of the Fuel Exchange Agreement.

* Carter said U.S. sees a handshake of two complementary initiatives between the two nations: India's Make in India policy, and the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative; and also India's Act East policy, and American's rebalance to the Asia-Pacific. Carter said the Indo-Asia-Pacific is one of the most consequential parts of the world for America's future. And the U.S. welcomes India's rise as a security partner in the region - a region where half of humanity lives, and half of the world's economic activity takes place. The U.S.-India defense partnership will become an anchor of global security.

Please post the link

 

[Taygibay]

if it wasn't for the French way of pricing, haggling, pretty much every promise made from Full tot to sources codes were shitted upon.

Of course, nothing to do with HAL's bad work habits :

The fundamental problem, however, is that by codifying and closely regulating as many aspects of defense procurement as it could, India’s previous government created a web of red tape so complex and so arcane that mutually-acceptable defense deals have become virtually impossible.
Another – and so far unsaid - factor is that HAL’s work-force is not yet capable of assembling aircraft as advanced as Rafale, and the Indian government appears to have realized that it was insisting on an expensive and time-consuming industrial fantasy that it would probably be unable to implement in the short term.​

India to Sign Rafale Contract By June

or the reports of cost for each real work hour being higher than even in France.


I stand corrected and hence behind the sideline, amused and a tad sarcastic.

And still good luck, bye, Tay!

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Cherry picking some discussions from other forums. Credit to original poster randomradio(moderator of that site )

Point 1 SH for IN and IAF - scope

• The Indian Navy don't want the Super Hornet. Their leaders have clearly said the Rafale is the obvious choice along with the F-35.
• And the SH doesn't meet requirements anyway. By the time it undergoes development to match Rafale's current standards, which it will never achieve, Rafale would have gone far ahead in the technology curve while the SH would have become more expensive just trying to meet some of Rafale's current tech base.
• SH is a lemon for the IAF.

Point 2 Why SH is cheaper and inferior to Rafale

• SH is half a generation behind the Rafale right now. It will be one generation behind the Rafale in just 3 years from now. The difference between Rafale and SH in terms of technology is Spectra, DDM-NG, FSO and sensor fusion. Take these things out from Rafale and it will be much cheaper than SH.
• Australia paid $6B for 24 SHs. Lol. That's 250M each. And this version doesn't come with a IRST/camera, Spectra suite, sensor fusion etc.
• Heads up, just Spectra costs 30% of the value of the Rafale's flyaway. And Rafale costs 75M while SH costs 60M. Just removing Spectra will make Rafale cheaper, let's not even talk about how expensive sensor fusion is.
• In just 3 years, the Rafale will be able to do things SH cannot and will never be able to do for as long as it lives.
• Dassault is also equally punctual. And they can deliver better technology at lower cost and much faster. And US Congress won't allow a lot of ToT for the SH in comparison to the French Senate.

Point 3 Future scope of development - Whose funding?

• For SH all you will get is an inferior product at a bloated price. And the consolation prize is all future development of the SH will be borne by IAF thereby increasing costs exponentially, unlike Rafale where the French military/DGA is paying for the future development of Rafale and we are just buying what they make at the same cost as ADLA.

Point 4 Customers of SH

• Lost to LM for both USAF fighter projects. Their fighters were practically export failures. SH has just one export customer and that's because RAAF wanted a stop gap before they buy LM's F-35. The F-15 is relatively better, but it has few buyers even though it did not have competition.
• Their only good projects were large aircraft and some of them were simply based on very old designs. C-17, C-130, KC-135, Apache, Chinook etc are all very old designs.
• Boeing actually lost the KC-X competition to Airbus. Then the USG pulled some strings and gave the deal to Boeing. Even today it is a crappy tanker compared to the A330 that India is buying. Boeing did not even participate in the Indian tender because they knew they had no chance.
• Comparatively, the other competitors make and sell brand new aircraft with new technology. And here you are supporting the induction of the most useless aircraft in the entire MMRCA.
• Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen are leagues ahead of SH and F-16 in terms of technology. SH is as expensive as Rafale but does nothing that Rafale can do. At least the F-16 is cheap to operate. Both the teens are relics beyond retirement. USN has already started plans to replace them.

Some love from @halloweene who posted below - @Abingdonboy @Taygibay

Why we should not choose F18 and 16s.. see this pic.. it explains it and a nice article to state the obvious
Stunning Photos Show the F-22 Raptor training with the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale in the U.S.

NATO’s three most advanced combat planes flying together during exercise

The Aviationist » Stunning Photos Show the F-22 Raptor training with the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale in the U.S.

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

your wasting your time he is a false flagger

you also said that i am a false flagger just 2 hours ago.
@herono1

 

[Perpendicular]

Please post the link

Arming India