India-U.S. Bilateral: Boeing To Shift F/A-18 Assembly Line If India Buys 200 Jets

[axisofevil]

You really special aint you.
The F-18 assembly is good, but they'll want parts of assembly and training. Such an assembly line is needed, but not to manufacture a F-18 which is NOT a modern design like Typhoon or Rafale.
Would be waste. A twin engine LCA would be better idea.

Have you seen the new block version for the F 18? You think tejas is a new modern design LMAO?

 

[sathya]

F18 vs Rafale

Cost is also going to factor in, but not worth going to multiple platforms again.

 

[Mike_Brando]

It won't happen, india is so poor they don't have money to buy 200 jets.

Oproh,oproh,oproh,oproh,oproh

 

[surya kiran]

No but they succeeded at everything they did do ... & I'll be nice and forego answering the first and last parts of your post.

Good luck and day, Tay.

I hope its the Mukesh Ambani group and not the Anil Ambani group. If it's Anil Ambani, might as well have given it to HAL.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Well,

If you check back my posts in 2009, I was infact one of the few who advocated that F/A 18 was the best fit for MMRCA :

- AESA Ready
- Proven
- Growler
- Common for Navy / IAF
- Best technology
- Timly Delivery

The usual issue was ToT, But give the Success of C 130s , C17s and offensive platforms like Apache, We could go for US.

Dont forget the even France WILL NOT Transfer Technology for AESA / Engine Core. ( With 36 Orders )

However, When in 2015, i feel Americans are late. Its more wise to go for 150 Rafale than 200 F/18 ( the No. 200 was also coined back in 2009 /10 )

But it will be Interesting as India is Negotiating Separately for the Engine Technolgy and already has a Desi AESA Raedy.

 

[Taygibay]

I hope its the Mukesh Ambani group and not the Anil Ambani group. If it's Anil Ambani, might as well have given it to HAL.

No, no, it's RIL but thanks for the laugh!

Good day all, Tay.

 

[Hellfire]

Utter nonsense, you don't get a safety record as remarkable as the IAF's by being so incompetent that OEMs forbid you from getting near their aircraft. The IL-76s have been in IAF service for decades without any serious issues all thanks to the IAF's impressive proffesionalism.

The point you make about C-17s being maintained by the OEM (Boeing) is because the IAF paid for this privlage- the IAF opted to join the C-17's Global Sustainment Partnership (GSP) wherein Boeing guarentees availability rates of >85%.

Strange, the serviceability of IL-76s is a record that speaks for itself. More than 50% of the existing fleet is composed of AOGs. Safety standard of the Indians is being defined by Mig-21s record, one of the best aircrafts that have now unfortunately been named as flying coffins. While some aircrafts are lost due to human error, majority are due to poor maintenance (read of the spare part supply). The BRDs are not the problem, it is the spares being provided by concerned sources.Please read the contract of warranty for C-130s. And the incident about IL-78s, am sure if you contact the concerned people, you will come to know the veracity of the incident. Hell, go to recent spate of loss of Nishant UAVs in western desert in Ex Drad Sankalp

 

[Immanuel]

Cost of the C-17 of 410 million per bird includes 45 F117-PW-100 engines (40 installed and 5 spare engines), ten AN/ALE-47 Counter-Measures Dispensing Systems, ten AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning Systems, spare and repairs parts, repair and return, warranty, pyrotechnics, flares, other explosives, aircraft ferry and refueling support, crew armor, mission planning system software, communication equipment and support, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical data, US Government and contractor technical, engineering, and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.

Cost of the aircraft themselves was around 1.8 billion or 170 million per bird, not bad at all.

 

[Abingdonboy]

No one here is confused, certainly not me. Rafale is a good aircraft but a complete waste of resources, only being pushed forward now to further interests of certain highly corrupt and powerful people in India. The Super Hornet is a cheaper deal and any given day brings us more strategic benefits than working with the French does.



They succeed coz they have deep pockets but a day will come when their luck will run out. No one asks you to be nice

If you are accusing the highest levels of the Indian government (PM and DM) of being embroiled in a massive scam you better have some facts to back it up before spouting such slanderous and outrageous comments.

@PARIKRAMA @Star Wars

Yes, m'well ... for once I'll have to disagree with you my friend! Official position schmoozition honestly!
We both know that troops and jets are clearly marked for Pakistan within the Indian armed forces.
So are soldiers ( and pigeons from what I"ve read ) on this side to face them!
Compare that to French troops serving in a common units with Germans to defend against outsiders to both.
In Germany, mind you, so no need for them home! There is a gain to be had for sure.

As for weight of budget itself, the problem remains that you have over a billion folks to take care of.
That's a gargantuan task! Any economy should be welcome?

No offence as you know, good day, Tay.

With all due respect sir this is rather irrelvent. Any improvment in ties between India and Pakistan would take decades to translate into a state where the two were willing to redeploy their assets away from one another. And the key word here is- redeploy. India would not dissarm, it would simply shift its assets elsewhere- probably to the East.

As for weight of budget itself, the problem remains that you have over a billion folks to take care of.
That's a gargantuan task! Any economy should be welcome?

Very true sir but as I have said above there is little scope to make economies where defence is concenred. The defence budget is already but a fraction of the health,education and infrastrucutre budgets and the threat from China is omnipresent.

 

[Taygibay]

With all due respect sir this is rather irrelvent. Any improvment in ties between India and Pakistan would take decades to translate into a state where the two were willing to redeploy their assets away from one another. And the key word here is- redeploy. India would not dissarm, it would simply shift its assets elsewhere- probably to the East.

Fully agreed on the drawn out schedule for such a feat but that is no excuse by itself. Or else we'd never start much of anything!
However, the relevance in my answer was not clear if taking in militaries only. As the soldiers left our borders,
living quality has increased for civilians too. Just replace those state servants with nurses and teachers instead?
I understand the patriotic view very well but peace [/and love] has[/have] its[/their] merit[/s] too. Prosperity anyone?

there is little scope to make economies where defence is concenred.

In squandered money, there is! Of course, that may yet again seem a civilian thing but these play a big role
in defence spendings if only through politic; they're intertwined!

and the threat from China is omnipresent.

See, I'm not sure I believe that entirely which may be at play in this exchange of ours.
China is doing an awesome transformation job military wise but it can't attack all and every neighbour it has yet!
Is india their main fare or next course in the mil expansion business? No, that would be securing naval hegemony
as of these years and the growth of the IN of late shows this to have been computed by Dehli. Of course they have
the means to play stupid and dirty party tricks on the LoC and in Arunachal Pradesh and are unlikely to stop.

But a full frontal while they're coalescing most other countries East at them by building sand castles in the sea is
not credible considering how many folks would turn against them at once. Out of sequence, let's say!

This may not be the right thread for us to carry this one convo on though.
We can come back to it elsewhere? All the best to you and yours, Tay.

 

[My-Analogous]

Arming India

When you post any thread along with thread always give link and it is mandatory in PDF.

 

[Immanuel]

If you are accusing the highest levels of the Indian government (PM and DM) of being embroiled in a massive scam you better have some facts to back it up before spouting such slanderous and outrageous comments.
QUOTE].

Well there isn't a single deal that involves Reliance that isn't corrupt at some level or the other, it will be quite difficult to prove as these guys have mastered the art. Party funds here and there, all it really takes. These guys have plenty of liquidity and when its crunch time it flows as easy as water. The MRCA farce exactly pointed out to many things: Rafale is far more expensive than it really was mentioned to be & the French can't be relied upon to make transparent offers.

They were even kicked out in the MRCA process during submission of bids, some how magically they came back. They became L-1 only later to find out, they deliberately left out critical costs in the price bid including cost of 100% TOT. They then point out at flaws of the RFP, they knew since day one of the RFP that they had to work with HAL only much later on pointing out HAL can't absorb such tech, especially an air framer than has made & maintained hundreds of aircraft under license for decades including the Jag, Mirages, Mig-29s, Su-30MKI. During the early phases they made a lot of BS promises of full TOT, independence etc. So after much delay of over 3-4 years the MRCA was scrapped. Our new DM comes in to find out perhaps the Rafale's capabilities were exaggerated by the IAF vis a vis the Su-30MKI and that the MKI can do most of what the Rafale and much more for a lot less cost. He is clearly on the verge of completely scrapping the Rafale deal when Modi announces a straight out buy. Sorry but if this isn't a shady deal, then it makes every other deal pretty clean by standards.

The French under US pressure couldn't even deliver a nearly fully built Mistral to Russia. The French bring no strategic advantages. During a low point of the Rafale deal late last year and early this year, they even hinted at selling Rafale to Pak. These folks are no better. Atleast with the US you get what you get. We didn't sign CISMOA and other agreements this didn't hamper us from having US products with Indian key components in them

 

[raktaka]

Well there isn't a single deal that involves Reliance that isn't corrupt at some level or the other, it will be quite difficult to prove as these guys have mastered the art. Party funds here and there, all it really takes. These guys have plenty of liquidity and when its crunch time it flows as easy as water. The MRCA farce exactly pointed out to many things: Rafale is far more expensive than it really was mentioned to be & the French can't be relied upon to make transparent offers.

They were even kicked out in the MRCA process during submission of bids, some how magically they came back. They became L-1 only later to find out, they deliberately left out critical costs in the price bid including cost of 100% TOT. They then point out at flaws of the RFP, they knew since day one of the RFP that they had to work with HAL only much later on pointing out HAL can't absorb such tech, especially an air framer than has made & maintained hundreds of aircraft under license for decades including the Jag, Mirages, Mig-29s, Su-30MKI. During the early phases they made a lot of BS promises of full TOT, independence etc. So after much delay of over 3-4 years the MRCA was scrapped. Our new DM comes in to find out perhaps the Rafale's capabilities were exaggerated by the IAF vis a vis the Su-30MKI and that the MKI can do most of what the Rafale and much more for a lot less cost. He is clearly on the verge of completely scrapping the Rafale deal when Modi announces a straight out buy. Sorry but if this isn't a shady deal, then it makes every other deal pretty clean by standards.

The French under US pressure couldn't even deliver a nearly fully built Mistral to Russia. The French bring no strategic advantages. During a low point of the Rafale deal late last year and early this year, they even hinted at selling Rafale to Pak. These folks are no better. Atleast with the US you get what you get. We didn't sign CISMOA and other agreements this didn't hamper us from having US products with Indian key components in them

Yes very convincing Conspiracy theory

You forgot to add the tale about Modi's mistress who lives in Germany and France. That will explain his visit to germany as well

His visit to US and UK clearly indicate he was carrying Hawla cash to deposit in swiss bank. and his trip to dubai clearly shows his link to Dawood.

 

[wiseone2]

Well,

If you check back my posts in 2009, I was infact one of the few who advocated that F/A 18 was the best fit for MMRCA :

- AESA Ready
- Proven
- Growler
- Common for Navy / IAF
- Best technology
- Timly Delivery

The usual issue was ToT, But give the Success of C 130s , C17s and offensive platforms like Apache, We could go for US.

Dont forget the even France WILL NOT Transfer Technology for AESA / Engine Core. ( With 36 Orders )

However, When in 2015, i feel Americans are late. Its more wise to go for 150 Rafale than 200 F/18 ( the No. 200 was also coined back in 2009 /10 )

But it will be Interesting as India is Negotiating Separately for the Engine Technolgy and already has a Desi AESA Raedy.

F/A-18 is good for navy. I am not sure about air force

 

[Immanuel]

s

Yes very convincing Conspiracy theory

You forgot to add the tale about Modi's mistress who lives in Germany and France. That will explain his visit to germany as well

His visit to US and UK clearly indicate he was carrying Hawla cash to deposit in swiss bank. and his trip to dubai clearly shows his link to Dawood.

Well, everything I mentioned are factual chain of events with plenty of sources. Now Modi might not be corrupt per say but for Reliance to make a generous party donation at the right time can salvage such things, it may not be direct corruption more like furthering the interests of certain people. Eitherway, Rafale being at this stage not only points to Modi Govt. more so to the UPA which allowed the Rafale to get past the L1 in the first place. Technically speaking Eurofighter should have been the L1 based on everything they found later about how a lot of costs were missing in the original bid which were conveniently added on during further discussions.

F/A-18 is good for navy. I am not sure about air force

F-18 SH International is more than good enough for the IAF, it has reasonable operating costs, can deploy among the widest set of precision & standoff weapons, has a great sensor array. It doesn't specialize in any one particular role while being a jack of all trades which is what the IAF needs. It also performs roles like mini AWACS due to its radar having the detection ranges of over 400km as well as buddy refueling.