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India-U.S. Bilateral: Boeing To Shift F/A-18 Assembly Line If India Buys 200 Jets

You are hilariously overinflating the price India will pay for its Rafales and dramatically understating what an inherently inferior product, F-18 SH made in India would cost the IAF.


+ why are we all forgetting the IAF found the F-18 SH failed to meet their TECHNICAL criteria? Before the costs of all the prodcuts even came into the picture the F-18 had already been judged to be undesirable for the IAF so it shouldn't be a huge surprise that Boeing can claim it is cheaper than the Rafale. Marutis are cheaper than Ferraris are they not? Now all of a sudden we are being told to entirely ignore the IAF's 600+ point technical analysis and grab the US offer for what reason? This would be the biggest farce in India's military procurement history and make India look even more absurd on the world stage.

@PARIKRAMA
Yes you are right. The MMRCA tech evalaution seems to be the benchmark for IAF. I do feel IAF/MOD wont go for 16s and 18s. If the second MMRCA was really desired, it would have gone to Euro Fighter the ideal L2. Also I think UK PM Cameron and German Chancellor Merkel would have offered a much better package than what US would offer and also without such agreements and perhaps restrictions too..
 
Tell me one country that bought Rafale for USD 90 million.
so after your fake IDs od @Hafizzz & @Indian Patriot got pink this is your new ID :azn:


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more than the cost part, important thing is how much of a potential to improve in a platform is present.
with US already having plans to retire F 18 after induction of F 35 variants, what can India hope in terms of improvement later.
Rafale on other hand has full commitment from France and with future modifications, Rafale will provide an opportunity for India to customize the fighter as per future requirements.
i still feel Rafale is our best bet, no point in induction of anymore platforms.
 
US shifts its F18 plant assembly to india or not but Rafales are here to stay as main stay of IAF in future with number much higher then being directly imported now. All this is smart tactics by US to lure India into F18 deal but when this aircraft failed to meet IAF requirements in trial few years back what has changed now that it can meet those requirement now?
 
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I couldn't follow a thread for 8 pages on another speculation about India buying fighter plane x
for the love of me so I skipped most, sorry for that lack of graciousness, but ...

it did allow me to witness a magical moment as the first two pages went on with recurring suggestions
of a partnership between India and Pakistan. Understanding this possibility to only exist if relative peace
is established, I must admire and thank @dadeechi * @nang2 ** @GoldenRatio1618 @sharma1111
and the rest for their restraint from interfering.

This moment points out a psychosocial truth of importance : it is much more difficult because more involving
to solve disputes and conflicts with people close to oneself ( and yet worst within self / jihad al nafs ).
You forgive a co-worker for a small offence easily because he "stays at the office" as furniture does whereas
forgiving your wife or buddy for lousy behaviour gets old and arduous after years and thousands of incidents.
Hopefully, you have love for them over indifference for the guy in the next cubicle to help fuel the process.

It so happens that Pakistan and India are closer than they appear and maybe closer than they are apart even!
I mean that without knowing your viewpoint about the Indus civilization being the nascent beacon of Middle Asia
and Indians of yore mere turtle and snake worshipping swamp dwellers versus Bharat acquiring knowledge from
star travellers and Pakistanis refusing it to linger on the natural road of human development until Islam came,
I can say safely that whatever the variant, it is a common history I hear whose interpenetrating implications were
severed abnormally by the latest invader upon partition. You guys are old neighbours which shouldn't be forgotten
in any case.
Speaking of which, I come from a land that patched things up with an old neighbour from hell recently.
With some common stock but separated by centuries, one nation caused the resurgence of the other ( Napoleon )
to then witness 150 years of growing conflicts culminating in worldwide horror twice with the last tainted in infamy.
And yet, carried by ideas of pan-Europeanism, in 5 short years between 1958 and 1963, France and Germany
thanks to good men *** became friends and stuck to it since, building block of the EU as they remain today.

Why not here? Think of the money saved if both could refocus troops waiting for the next Kargil incident/war!
Pakistan can certainly use its troops for insurgency fighting; India can save its jets for Chinese J-xxx swarms
swooping over Himalaya. Both can divert some sums to infrastructure, health and education advantageously.

And mind you, over the cries of trolling, part of the bridging required to get there is happening here on PDF : -it
just did!!! which is a testimony to the forum's worth. So far fetched? Maybe but still worth it IMHoO.

Again, thanks for the unicorn and rainbow moment guys! It cheered me up so much I may not slap that annoying co-worker today.

Fingers crossed things did not morph into a cesspool in pp. 3-8 and great day all, Tay.

* Original mention of concept and excellent funny dialogue
** No they're not, the competition is not even re-opened yet!
... Super Hornets would make sense though, you are right!
*** Great men have often cost lives in one way or another.
... Besides, as good men although more benign can rise to
... greatness when circumstances call for it. I favour the latter.
 
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Brazil – F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Going by 2009 prices offered to Brazil, 36 Super Hornet with weapons and life time service cost around 194 million each. Not bad, since Rafale's figure exceeds 250 million based on current offer of 9 billion for 36 aircraft, Rafale's offer to Brazil was also around 8 billion.
Has this 36 for $9BN figure been confirmed by anyone? Until that day there is no point in quoting it as gospel and using it to disparage the Rafale.

An excllent post as always @Taygibay I will just have to address this point:

Why not here? Think of the money saved if both could refocus troops waiting for the next Kargil incident/war!
Pakistan can certainly use its troops for insurgency fighting; India can save its jets for Chinese J-xxx swarms
swooping over Himalaya. Both can divert some sums to infrastructure, health and education advantageously.
India has stated offically that it is not looking to build up an enemy-centric military but a broad spectrum military capability congruent with its global aspirations. As such, "peace" with Pakistan would not see any reduction in military capabilty of India maybe just some redeployments.

Also, as it stands, the Indian defence budget is just 1.78% of GDP (far below international norms), 13% of the national budget and but a fraction of the amount spent on education, health and infrastrucutre.
 
India has stated offically that it is not looking to build up an enemy-centric military but a broad spectrum military capability congruent with its global aspirations. As such, "peace" with Pakistan would not see any reduction in military capabilty of India maybe just some redeployments.

Yes, m'well ... for once I'll have to disagree with you my friend! Official position schmoozition honestly!
We both know that troops and jets are clearly marked for Pakistan within the Indian armed forces.
So are soldiers ( and pigeons from what I"ve read ) on this side to face them!
Compare that to French troops serving in a common units with Germans to defend against outsiders to both.
In Germany, mind you, so no need for them home! There is a gain to be had for sure.

As for weight of budget itself, the problem remains that you have over a billion folks to take care of.
That's a gargantuan task! Any economy should be welcome?

No offence as you know, good day, Tay.
 
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I support kndia to go for F 18 because it has no future irders other than USN most airforces dont want to upgrade them but to replace them

F 18 USA are very smart hope india buy them and put it self in jail
 
Boeing can sell F-18 far cheaper then Rafales.

Of course, since they are! :triniti:

Not bad, since Rafale's figure exceeds 250 million based on current offer of 9 billion for 36 aircraft, Rafale's offer to Brazil was also around 8 billion

9 billion is a phantasmagorical number related entirely to the inability of the Indian general press to do its work
and not in any way to Dassault's capacity to do its own.
8 B$ in Brazil was the price for the first 36 with an assembly line to make 72 more under license.
You seem confused between apple and oranges ... maybe even fantasy and reality, I'm sorry to say.

To show this to be true, check the two 6B$ deals with Egypt and Qatar.
Both are for 36 planes ( 24+12 opt. ) but Cairo also gets a FREMM ( how many Arleigh-Burkes with that F-18 line? )
while Doha has ordered enough weapons within its own to change its aerial projection capabilities ten-fold.

Good day both, Tay.
 
Simple point remains that when world over all airforces are trying to bring down the number of fighter jets available and try to induct a true multi role aircraft, we in India are doing the reverse. or so the media educates us daily.
Even Pakistan has done well to develop JF 17 as a singular platform to serve so many of her needs and given the attractive price, its a wonderful thing to do.
Let us hope good sense will prevail and in 10 years from now when barring MiG 29, most Soviet legacy fighters from MiG series would be gone, we'll not have more than 4 or 5 fighters in inventory. Best case scenario would be 2 from Sukhoi (MKI and FGFA), two from Dassault (M2K and Rafale) and one each from Mikoyan (29 upgrades and 29K) and HAL (LCA Mk 1 and possibly 2).
Anymore and we might start giving a turkish delight shop scare for variety.
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @GURU DUTT
Fingers crossed things did not morph into a cesspool in pp. 3-8 and great day all,
Don't be so sure Tay:p:
 
Simple point remains that when world over all airforces are trying to bring down the number of fighter jets available and try to induct a true multi role aircraft, we in India are doing the reverse. or so the media educates us daily.
Even Pakistan has done well to develop JF 17 as a singular platform to serve so many of her needs and given the attractive price, its a wonderful thing to do.
Let us hope good sense will prevail and in 10 years from now when barring MiG 29, most Soviet legacy fighters from MiG series would be gone, we'll not have more than 4 or 5 fighters in inventory. Best case scenario would be 2 from Sukhoi (MKI and FGFA), two from Dassault (M2K and Rafale) and one each from Mikoyan (29 upgrades and 29K) and HAL (LCA Mk 1 and possibly 2).
Anymore and we might start giving a turkish delight shop scare for variety.
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @GURU DUTT

Don't be so sure Tay:p:
that is the main thing which i dont get it why does IAF has such a fixation for so many diffrent types of fighters all we need for future needs after Mig29-M2k-MKI-Jaguar -Bison combo is super MKI-LCA-MK1a-FGFA-AMCA combo of which LCA & MKIs will become useless once AMCA-FGFA conbo comes in full strenth why do we need rafale or F/A-18 what we need for future is only 5th gen or maybe 6th gen fighters in future
 
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