India to build its own stealth fighter jet.

[Protectionist Gareth]

Why do Pakistani a$ses start burning in these kinda threads?
I see!The sadness of 'these kinda threads' not originating from Pakistan can be seen!

 

[SR-91]

U can only have peace when nations have similar capabilities and similar views and goals.If u have one nation being a big bully,how can u talk of peace.

 

[IndianArmy]

India should try to peacefully solve its border problems. Going for these weapons like this is only encouraging an arms race in our neighbourhood.

Well, why always India?? India is peacefully investing in weapons. If there is anything which can bring peace its weapons. How do you define peace? Have a french kiss and do a sayonara at the end of the day?

 

[LiberalAtheist]

India should try to peacefully solve its border problems. Going for these weapons like this is only encouraging an arms race in our neighbourhood.

we've been trying since 1948 we tried at the Lahore summit and for our efforts we were given the Kargil war and since then a number of terrorist attacks on our soil supported by the ISI conducted through groups like LeT as well as the continued infiltration of militants into Kashmir

and don't worry our military modernization is not aimed at you guys because you are not our primary threat China is

 

[kingdurgaking]

And who will stop those initial flurry of air superiority fighters from across the border ?

Fighters with huge RCS will do the job... or ground base radars

 

[perplexed]

Fighters with huge RCS will do the job... or ground base radars

Exactly ..... in short/medium term it should be the priority of MoD to shore up the numbers of "huge RCS fighters" like MKIs. ie who will stem the onslaught from our adversaries. Since if u just go by numbers then PLAAF has atleast 2 fighters for every IaF fighter.
We don't need Stealth Bombers till 2025.
So I think 2020 will be a good time to go about it. By then, our AMCA/MMRCA/PAKFA experience will give it a head start.

 

[Vibs]

Exactly ..... in short/medium term it should be the priority of MoD to shore up the numbers of "huge RCS fighters" like MKIs. ie who will stem the onslaught from our adversaries. Since if u just go by numbers then PLAAF has atleast 2 fighters for every IaF fighter.
We don't need Stealth Bombers till 2025.
So I think 2020 will be a good time to go about it. By then, our AMCA/MMRCA/PAKFA experience will give it a head start.

You are ignoring the advances made in modern offensive weapons like A2A missiles. In the past dog fights were done within visual range and so RCS did not matter. Today's air superiority fighters rely on BVR missiles. If our aircrafts have a huge RCS they will be shot down before they even detect enemy aircraft. Even a ratio of 10:1 in our favor would be useless if the RCS is huge.

P.S.:I'm not sure of how you came up with the ratio of PLAAF fighters to Indian fighters. The ratio currently is 1:1.7 in the favor of India.

 

[Jon Snow]

bvr among 4th gen fighters doesnt depend on rcs because in fully loaded config any 4.5 gen aircraft will have rcs of at least 3 and will easily be detected at ranges far greater than 100km( without awacs)- so both the aircraft would have detected each other and probably would have even manouvered to get the beetter position by the time they get within bvr missile range.
Rcs will only matter if its a fight which involves 5th gen fighters - till then rcs can be as high as you want - it wont make that huge a difference

 

[Vibs]

bvr among 4th gen fighters doesnt depend on rcs because in fully loaded config any 4.5 gen aircraft will have rcs of at least 3 and will easily be detected at ranges far greater than 100km( without awacs)- so both the aircraft would have detected each other and probably would have even manouvered to get the beetter position by the time they get within bvr missile range.
Rcs will only matter if its a fight which involves 5th gen fighters - till then rcs can be as high as you want - it wont make that huge a difference

You're right. But one would not waste a BVR missile on every aircraft/object detected. A big RCS will be reasonably easy to identify and target. Even a seconds delay is worth a lot in war. I guess if you have Radar jammers and EW equipment,it may not matter, but ideally you want to rely on the aircraft.That's also one of the reasons why there is significant effort to reduce Infrared Signature (stealth is not restricted to RCS alone) which is more prominent and is what a lot of missiles lock on to.

 

[perplexed]

P.S.:I'm not sure of how you came up with the ratio of PLAAF fighters to Indian fighters. The ratio currently is 1:1.7 in the favor of India.

In fighter ratio india has advantage ? Well ! that's news

anyways my point was, India needs to focus its resources in shoring up the number of fighters be it Large rcs (with good air superiority features like MKI) or with stealth features like upcoming FGFA rather than bombers.

ie. a potent mix of 4.5 gen heavy fighters + 5th gen fighters for air superiority

 

[Black Widow]

You are ignoring the advances made in modern offensive weapons like A2A missiles. In the past dog fights were done within visual range and so RCS did not matter. Today's air superiority fighters rely on BVR missiles. If our aircrafts have a huge RCS they will be shot down before they even detect enemy aircraft. Even a ratio of 10:1 in our favor would be useless if the RCS is huge.

P.S.:I'm not sure of how you came up with the ratio of PLAAF fighters to Indian fighters. The ratio currently is 1:1.7 in the favor of India.

Can you give specific example???

@perplexed: F15 has similar RCS of MKI, How many F15 have brought down??? Tracking and locking are two different things, Some XYZ plane can track MKI at 150+km, can it lock it by this distance??? It has to come within 100km range to lock it... By the time will F15 or MKI rip apart the XYZ plane...

RCS doesn't play that big role in 4.5 gen planes, Even if it is locked, chances of bluffing missiles AAMs are more...

 

[Vibs]

Can you give specific example???

@perplexed: F15 has similar RCS of MKI, How many F15 have brought down??? Tracking and locking are two different things, Some XYZ plane can track MKI at 150+km, can it lock it by this distance??? It has to come within 100km range to lock it... By the time will F15 or MKI rip apart the XYZ plane...

RCS doesn't play that big role in 4.5 gen planes, Even if it is locked, chances of bluffing missiles AAMs are more...

There is no records of use in operational wars,although it is suspected to have been used in the Gulf war. But there were a few exercises which demonstrated the capabilities of a stealth aircraft (LOW RCS) over conventional one.

Fourteen F-22s of the 94th FS supported attacking Blue Force strike packages as well as engaging in close air support sorties themselves in Red Flag 07-1 in February 2007. Against superior numbers of Red Force Aggressor F-15s and F-16s, the F-22 maintained air dominance using eight aircraft during day missions and six at night, reportedly defeating aggressors efficiently and with speed. Further, no sorties were missed because of maintenance or other failures, and only one Raptor was adjudged lost against the overwhelming defeat of the defending force.

 

[faithfulguy]

There is no records of use in operational wars,although it is suspected to have been used in the Gulf war. But there were a few exercises which demonstrated the capabilities of a stealth aircraft (LOW RCS) over conventional one.

Fourteen F-22s of the 94th FS supported attacking Blue Force strike packages as well as engaging in close air support sorties themselves in Red Flag 07-1 in February 2007. Against superior numbers of Red Force Aggressor F-15s and F-16s, the F-22 maintained air dominance using eight aircraft during day missions and six at night, reportedly defeating aggressors efficiently and with speed. Further, no sorties were missed because of maintenance or other failures, and only one Raptor was adjudged lost against the overwhelming defeat of the defending force.

F-22 has superiority over F-15, F-h16 or Su30 like how F-15 has over Mig 21. There is just no comparison.

 

[Vibs]

F-22 has superiority over F-15, F-h16 or Su30 like how F-15 has over Mig 21. There is just no comparison.

I was trying to make a point of the effect of low RCS on the result of an aerial combat. Would this be a wrong example?
As far as superiority of technology is concerned, the Falkland wars demonstrated that it's not alone to win the dog fight.

 

[faithfulguy]

I was trying to make a point of the effect of low RCS on the result of an aerial combat. Would this be a wrong example?
As far as superiority of technology is concerned, the Falkland wars demonstrated that it's not alone to win the dog fight.

Your example is fine, I was trying to reinforce your example. Sorry for the misunderstanding. As for superior technology is concerned, it will matter more and more as technology is more advanced. So during Vietnam war, technology makes a bigger difference than in WWII. From the US perspective, the outcome was opposite from one another because of political reason. Today, technology will be a even bigger difference. But a country must also have a political will and a determination to win.