India tells China: Kashmir is to us what Tibet, Taiwan are to you

[huzihaidao12]

If you can bundle other interests. . . . . . I think that might be better resolved.

 

[CardSharp]

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Was it because of Pakistan centric doctrines that we then followed, and not being able to foresee our own rise?

Gubbi I'd like to hear what you think about these two points affecting the talks.

How is the decision making process today different, if any, from that being followed then?

In my personal opinion this obstacle still exists.

Are you implying that there is a possibility of rise of multiple blocks of power in China, a la Pakistan? Isnt the PLA firmly under the control of the CPC?

The Hawks don't all come out of the PLA. Refer to post #256 http://www.defence.pk/forums/1449983-post256.html

Hu's successor is most probably going to be Xi Jinping - some say he's a hawk, while others say he is very pragmatic. Whats you opinion and how would he influence Indo-China talks?

Unfortunately I think it doesn't matter who is in charge, the window on the Chinese side is closing, not least because the new more politically conscious middle class is unlikely to allow the government to give away land, they see as Chinese land. The major concessions made to the other 9 bordering countries during the early days of the Republic were possible because the Chinese people were not as politically minded (the way we think about politics).

 

[huzihaidao12]

Premier Wen said "the world has enough space to accommodate China‘s development and India's development", it is true, however, on one condition. If China and India have enough trust and cooperation, it is true, otherwise. . . . . .

The only problem may be the energy, however, if the energy problem, then the world will have terrible trouble, but not limited to China and India.

 

[CardSharp]

Now back to the ACTUAL topic of the thread:

(Anyone who wants to talk about the second Sino-Japanese war is free to start a new thread)



Do you think there is any scope for settling the borders nowadays? From what I gather, it doesn't look very likely, and that is probably an understatement.

Time is kind of running out. As public pressure matters more and more (the ironies of a democratic China). The CCP's hands become more and more tied.

If you can bundle other interests. . . . . . I think that might be better resolved.

This is a possibility, if handing over land is a sensitive issue, concessions in others forms can happen on both sides to help the issue along.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The only problem may be the energy, however, if the energy problem, then the world will have terrible trouble, but not limited to China and India.

You're right, if most of the developing countries, became developed countries, there would not be enough resources on Earth to sustain it. Not even close.

Which is why renewable energy is going to be so important for the future. China right now, is the number one producer of renewable energy in the world, but it still only makes up a small percentage of our energy needs.

I'm most worried about fresh water resources actually, we should borrow some of Singapore's world-beating "desalination" techniques.

 

[huzihaidao12]

If the energy problem, the world will become like hell, China and India will be only one problem.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am amazed to see how much fun you guys have had on this thread, and am furious that so much of it was while I was away tending to my father in hospital. Terrible sneaky thing to do (having fun without me, I mean, not tending my father)!

But there are some excellent points starting from Gubbi's comments. About the Sino-Japanese War, as someone correctly pointed out, another war, another thread. I'm watching the comments come in fast and furious, and loving it.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Wish your father get better, JOE.

 

[Peshwa]

He said "defeated then finished off by the Soviets". This should have been a clue if you knew history. He obviously meant the IJA was defeated In China by the KMT and PLA, because China is the only theatre in which Soviet troops came into contact with the Japanese.

May I remind you of my initial statement:

China was as much a victor in WW2 as France

All the evidence I have provided is to support this statement.....Let me refresh:

1. Similar to France the eastern Chinese seaboard and Indo China was overrun by the Japanese. Unlike France which completely fell following which the allies jumped in, China had the help of allies well before the country fell to Japan which was an outcome that the allies feared was feasable causing them to jump in.

2. The instrument of surrender was not a result of the Chinese victory. Hongwu claimed that Chinese victory followed by the "clean up" by the Soviets lead to the defeat of the Japanese. Not true considering it was the japanese bombing by Americans that halted any further aggression in China.
My argument here is, China may have won the battle against the Japanese, but NOT the war. feel free to diagree

3. Comparing Chinese losses to Japanese losses speaks a very different story. Rarely in history has a victor suffered more losses than its counterpart.

Anyways. I have no interest in further escalating this. Your lot seems quite perturbed by my words.

Consider this my POV and move on. You're free to interpret history as per your ideas and thinking. I obviously choose a different path.

 

[CardSharp]

May I remind you of my initial statement:



All the evidence I have provided is to support this statement.....Let me refresh:

1. Similar to France the eastern Chinese seaboard and Indo China was overrun by the Japanese. Unlike France which completely fell following which the allies jumped in, China had the help of allies well before the country fell to Japan which was an outcome that the allies feared was feasable causing them to jump in.

2. The instrument of surrender was not a result of the Chinese victory. Hongwu claimed that Chinese victory followed by the "clean up" by the Soviets lead to the defeat of the Japanese. Not true considering it was the japanese bombing by Americans that halted any further aggression in China.
My argument here is, China may have won the battle against the Japanese, but NOT the war. feel free to diagree

3. Comparing Chinese losses to Japanese losses speaks a very different story. Rarely in history has a victor suffered more losses than its counterpart.

Anyways. I have no interest in further escalating this. Your lot seems quite perturbed by my words.

Consider this my POV and move on. You're free to interpret history as per your ideas and thinking. I obviously choose a different path.

Start another thread if you want to talk about it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Wish your father get better, JOE.

Mikki nandri, Da. (Karthic, please do the honours).

 

[Joe Shearer]

Wish your father get better, JOE.

Thanks, guys, good of you to wish him well. He's 91, so these episodes will happen. Nothing to be done but be calm and get him well asap.

Wish I could tell you his stories of his Army liaison days in WWII on the Arakan front, in Cox's Bazaar.

 

[CardSharp]

Mikki nandri, Da. (Karthic, please do the honours).

Don't keep us in suspense, I've tried to respond to Gubbi as best I can, Am waiting to hear your response.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

3. Comparing Chinese losses to Japanese losses speaks a very different story. Rarely in history has a victor suffered more losses than its counterpart.

What about Nazi Germany versus Soviet Russia?

Have you heard of the Battle of Stalingrad?

Anyways. I have no interest in further escalating this. Your lot seems quite perturbed by my words.

I guessed you missed the thread on Japanese atrocities, in the world affairs forum.

Yes, Chinese people do get annoyed when Indians bring the Sino-Japanese war into a thread that has NOTHING to do with it, usually as a means of bashing Chinese people.

Peshwa, I doubt your intention was to bash us, since you're one of the more reasonable posters on this forum. But when Indians are always bringing up the Sino-Japanese war in threads where it is completely irrelevant, yes it will annoy people. This event was no laughing matter, it was a despicable crime against humanity.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Thanks, guys, good of you to wish him well. He's 91, so these episodes will happen. Nothing to be done but be calm and get him well asap.

Wish I could tell you his stories of his Army liaison days in WWII on the Arakan front, in Cox's Bazaar.

Well, I hope to hear your story someday.