India starts work on second indigenous aircraft carrier

[janon]

Are you suggesting that Indian ship building technique is in the same league as Western nations?

No. I'm merely asking you to explain a statement you made. It wasn't about ship building techniques, it was about the ships themselves - you called them substandard. And you said it was obvious. It isn't so obvious to me how these ships are substandard, which is why I asked you to explain. Looks like it isn't too obvious to you either, since you are trying to divert the issue from ships to ship building techniques, and putting words in my mouth and creating straw men to attack.

I cannot see how anybody can call these ships substandard for their tonnage class. They carry very respectable sensors and armaments, and are a very potent addition to the IN, and more complex and powerful than anything they have ever operated so far.

 

[Alchemy]

Running parallel projects can also have negative effects specially for someone who is doing it for the first time, the common problems include resource constraints and adding complexities

The IAC-1 is not still operational, on paper you can say that much of the work has done but until the ACC is not set to sail and testing you cant be assure of whether all chunks are working as planned and the output of the system as a whole is what was desired , That can help you to notice and get into mind even the minor of things that went wrong thus applying them in different ways in the second project based upon learning

But with parallel projects you are still not assure how the IAC-1 will perform once it is operational , any glitches on IAC-1 may found their way on IAC-2 as well thus not only resulting into ruffling the time line but also will cause monetary set back .

Another negative effect could be that by the time they are completed Pakistan navy would face 3 aircraft carriers in the region instead of two if it were only IAC-1 first

 

[Jackdaws]

So if we dont build ships thinking it will be substandard, how will we get into the league of Western Nations ?

AFAIK, the western nations went through the same learning curve that we are going through right now -- Raptor or PAKFA were not built in a day.

Well, we can freaking import them. Why do we need to manufacture them? The western nations needed to go through a learning curve in the pre-globalization days when patriotic chest thumping was the norm.

 

[Bhairava]

Well, we can freaking import them. Why do we need to manufacture them? The western nations needed to go through a learning curve in the pre-globalization days when patriotic chest thumping was the norm.

We can import them during peacetime and during wartime they can become glorified hangar queens due to lack of sparepart as some country has imposed sanction on us.

Didnt we learn anything at all from history ?

Even if this product its substandard -- so be it, we are not going to fight the USN tomorrow. But not stopping the learning process tomorrow we can build better ships.

 

[dott]

Well, we can freaking import them. Why do we need to manufacture them? The western nations needed to go through a learning curve in the pre-globalization days when patriotic chest thumping was the norm.

come on dude u have over 200o posts, i think u should be more mature. we cant import them in the long term. we need to build our own.

india today builds about 80% of the equipments fitted into ships indegeneously, and indian navy wants this to go to 100% soon. why?? saves money time and reduced dependence. also created economically valuable products and manpower and innovation. we need to keep working for our self interest not for russians or americans.

 

[Black Widow]

Running parallel projects can also have negative effects specially for someone who is doing it for the first time, the common problems include resource constraints and adding complexities

The IAC-1 is not still operational, on paper you can say that much of the work has done but until the ACC is not set to sail and testing you cant be assure of whether all chunks are working as planned and the output of the system as a whole is what was desired , That can help you to notice and get into mind even the minor of things that went wrong thus applying them in different ways in the second project based upon learning

But with parallel projects you are still not assure how the IAC-1 will perform once it is operational , any glitches on IAC-1 may found their way on IAC-2 as well thus not only resulting into ruffling the time line but also will cause monetary set back .

I disagree you, If you know well, This is Modular design. In Modular design different ppl do different work. The team who created the Hull will be free , so better use them to create second IAC Hull.


I suggest you to read some management books to learn how to increase efficiency by reusing resources...

There was a news report back in 2009 about IAC 2 being 75000 tons with electric catapult. Boeing and Lockheed Martin were flying back and forth to Delhi pushing for carrier based E-3D also offered EMALS equipment.

Isn't it Queen Elizabeth class Supercarrier???
O yes It is...

IAC II will be CATOBAR only If USA provide us EMALS technology. They will provide this technology Only if We will go for F35. We will buy F35 only if we will sign CISMOSA. EMALS is not proven technology, Only GF class supercarrier is using it (In experimental stage). If IAC II will be CATOBAR , it will get delated by at least 3 years...

So many if , dude...

 

[Riaz Hussain]

How is your over weight LCA going to take off from that?

 

[arp2041]

IMHO a 65k+ CATOBAR confgured ACC operating 30-40 Rafales/F-18 E/F with 1-2 E-2D would be well worth the wait. Yes ICA-1 has been delayed but lessons will be learnt and these delays are not necessarily transferable to future ACC construction projects. Just have to wait and see what IN decides to do- play it safe (another IAC-1 like ACC) or be bold (CATOBAR/65K).

mate, there are some reasons why i said that the IN should go for the design of IAC-1 only:

1. If i m not wrong, construction work on IAC-2 should have already started in 2010 (as per original schedule) & commissioned in 2017, now it's 2012 & we still don't know what will IAC-2 look like, also the original commissioning of IAC-2 of 2017 is now the commissioning date of IAC-1, that means IAC-2 is already 2 years late.

2. Now i think the construction work on IAC-2 will only start by 2014 as the IN finalizes the design & contract terms, cochin shipyard will take at least 10 years for it's construction (because of it's new & bigger design) that means we are looking at a commissioning date of 2024

3. We can make IAC-3 more bigger & better than the current design of IAC-1 & can take all the time in the world for it's construction but not with IAC-1 & 2, since they are the desperate needs of IN to fulfill it's dream of operating 3 CBG's & become a truly blue water navy, so it does not matter if IAC-2 is bigger or not (desperate needs calls for desperate measures).

4. More than the size & capability of AC, it is the perception that is more important, IN is always called a carrier navy, even if it means operating a 50 year old AC with limited air wing of just 10-12 aircrafts, the AC is more in refit than is at sea, so even if we operate 3 mid sized AC (but there capabilities is no doubt world class), it will be the no. that count not how bigger the ship is.

5. IN can always incorporate new technology as per needs in IAC-2 but the basic design should be the same as that of IAC-1, this will make the job of cochin shipyard easier with much less time of construction, It can also operate Rafales on it's deck (but ofcourse in limited nos.), so the difference b/w the 45k tonne to that of 65k tonne will be 10-15 less aircraft on the deck.

+ If we induct both IAC-1& 2 before 2020 (only possible when IAC-2 is of same design as IAC-1) than IN will always be having at least 3 CBG's in it's fleet even if it takes IAC-3 15 years for construction.

 

[Black Widow]

We can import them during peacetime and during wartime they can become glorified hangar queens due to lack of sparepart as some country has imposed sanction on us.

Didnt we learn anything at all from history ?

Even if this product its substandard -- so be it, we are not going to fight the USN tomorrow. But not stopping the learning process tomorrow we can build better ships.

you remind me an old story.
Once me and Ali were walking through Jungle (Banerghtata Bangalore), Suddenly we saw a Leopard, I started tieing my shoelace Ali saw me and asked "Hey Nj why are you lacing the shoe? We can't outrun the leopard.

I replied " Who want to outrun leopard, I want to outrun you".

Moral of the story, We don't need and willing to outrun powerful America.

 

[Alchemy]

How is your over weight LCA going to take off from that?

Start building your own ACC before talking about our ACC and its fighters

 

[Black Widow]

How is your over weight LCA going to take off from that?

If you are intended to troll, then STFO. If you are looking for answer, you are at right place brother. N-LCA (Navy) is different machine. It will have different undercarriage, landing gear and the cockpit will be changed for better view for landing on deck. Weight is not only factor for Carrier operated fighters.

We have this, we will test our N-LCA here and if it passes then we will test on real deck...

Hope you get the answer, for further answer read this...

Naval version of LCA Tejas takes off successfully : South, News - India Today

and wiki page for N-LCA

 

[dott]

you remind me an old story.
Once me and Ali were walking through Jungle (Banerghtata Bangalore), Suddenly we saw a Leopard, I started tieing my shoelace Ali saw me and asked "Hey Nj why are you lacing the shoe? We can't outrun the leopard.

I replied " Who want to outrun leopard, I want to outrun you".

Moral of the story, We don't need and willing to outrun powerful America.

sorry but moral of the story is we should be willing to out run america one day. what r u talking about, why staying at no2 or 3. we have alreadt reached the top in many fields.

 

[kawaraj]

Start building your own ACC before talking about our ACC and its fighters

we won't waste money on something unnecessarily. subs are good enough.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

I think India should have 2 ships of IAC-I design before going to a bigger tonnage AC's.

With 2 ships we will have a solid foundation for expansion. Any flaws can be ironed out.

And Please allow CSL to expand. It already has full export orders.

 

[Alchemy]

we won't waste money on something unnecessarily. subs are good enough.

Yeah yeah , we all know the story of fox and sour grapes