India slams Israeli attack on Gaza aid flotilla

[encounter]

China chose not to comment on the matter at the summit

Maybe, now some Pakistanis will support breaking of ties with China as they seem to be tacitly supporting Israel?

You knew your statement is a deliberate lie.

Here is the fact you liar:

China condemns Israel's attack on Gaza aid ships

 

[desiman]

I don't view the GoI's condemnation of this incident as any different than their new found interest in the IPI, undersea pipeline from Iran, and opposition to sanctions on Iran (which India has no influence over) - its just PR diplomacy to try and win influence and support for the Indian position in Afghanistan in the aftermath of a perceived US withdrawal.

The same government voted against Iran when it did have influence through a vote, and the same government wanted nothing to do with buying gas from Iran when the GoI saw India as ascendant in Afghanistan with Bush in charge and it was obtaining an NSG waiver.

This 'condemnation' plays into that PR, of appealing to the Iranian right wing as well as the Arabs who might get involved in Afghanistan and may still retain influence and be working behind the scenes to facilitate the 'Taliban reintegration/reconciliation' plan by Karzai.

In terms of actual effect - India will continue buying weapons from Israel and continuing to collaborate on the military, intelligence and diplomatic fronts.

Thats how International relations work Agnostic, its nothing sinister. Diplomatic relations do not work on emotions but on what is profitable or not. Just being over dramatic and cutting off all relations with Israel is nothing but stupid and over emotional and thats not how international relations work. Here we are cribbing about India's response when Turkey itself has put up such a weak face and has only taken some very minor steps. International relations do not work on who is suffering or not but on what makes me money and keeps me happy. Israel manages to do both for Turkey and India and doing anything other than PR jobs is out of the question.

 

[Bang Galore]

@EjazR,

Indian govt. is taking a stand out of expediency. A verbal condemnation of Israel is a small price to pay for keeping the jobs of tens of thousands of lucrative Indian works in the Arab world. Israel will understand that. I, too, understand the reasons for the double-talk by Indians.

Expediency? May be. So what if it is? Why do Pakistanis care so much for the Palestinians & not at all for the Uighurs in china & the Kurds in Turkey let alone the poor Tibetians. Expediency my friend, Expediency! There is not much for Pakistan to gain from annoying the Chinese or the Turks. Where is your concern for Human rights in these cases? It is easy for most Pakistanis to hate the Israelis because of religion; yours & theirs. You do not have to search for other reasons; it is provided in your religious history. For most non Muslim Indians, there is none of that baggage. We can thus be purely objective in our thinking. Any compassion expressed by Indians towards the Palestinian cause is probably more genuine than in the case of people predisposed to supporting one side due to religious affiliations.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thats how International relations work Agnostic, its nothing sinister. Diplomatic relations do not work on emotions but on what is profitable or not. Just being over dramatic and cutting off all relations with Israel is nothing but stupid and over emotional and thats not how international relations work. Here we are cribbing about India's response when Turkey itself has put up such a weak face and has only taken some very minor steps. International relations do not work on who is suffering or not but on what makes me money and keeps me happy. Israel manages to do both for Turkey and India and doing anything other than PR jobs is out of the question.

Absolutely - I am just reiterating the point that India's recent actions and statements on the Gaza raid, Iranian sanctions and purchasing gas from Iran IMO appoint to nothing more than diplomatic PR to get into the good books of States that might be able to assist it vis a vis Pakistan.

I see little tangible action by India on these issues unless Iran escapes sanctions and manages to get on a road to reconciliation with the US.

 

[EjazR]

You knew your statement is a deliberate lie.

Here is the fact you liar:

China condemns Israel's attack on Gaza aid ships

I was talking in context of the CICA summit. the link you mentioned is for the 31st of May by the spokesman not on the CICA summit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, no need to brandish labels.

 

[Meengla]

@Su-47,

Firstly, why drag the poster's religion into this? Secondly, Indian bloggers are not India, nor do they collectively represent the outlook of India. Remember that most members u find here are highly patriotic and hence will have support for Israel, since Israel is a good supplier and advisor to Indian military.

But that doesn't mean they represent the view of every indian or even a majority. I have seen indian members here condemn israel's actions, but of course, thats ignored. Most indian civilians and indian govt are shocked and angered by Israel's actions, and thus, the condemnation

Religion has to be dragged here because the Indian author of this Topic is so obviously Muslim--Muslims have the strongest reaction against the Raid--and that a large number of Indian bloggers, perhaps the majority, are supportive of Israel's actions. Logically, it is safe to say that most Indian bloggers are Hindus and that's probably the main reason--given India-Pak rivalry--they are supportive of Israel. Contrast it to the fact that WORLDWIDE--whether atheist Chinese or Buddhist Koreans or Christian English--there is widespread condemnation of Israeli Raid.
Indians are standing out in support of Israel and, dare I say, Indian Hindus even more so. An honest poll will settle this.

Now, I know you have been an early critic of the Israeli attack. Kudos for that. I also know that not only in this blog--I won't even bother with Bharat-Rakshak--but also in the Comments part of 'Times of India' quite a few people were supportive of Israel: Crush the Muslims!

This Topic, again, is an attempt at damage control. Indian bloggers reflect the true Indian official feeling and mindset, IMHO. Only some 'practical' considerations are preventing the official India from speaking their honest mind.

As to Pakistan, well, Pakistan is cash-strapped, too dependent. But if push comes to shove, Pakistanis are going to join the Turks against Israel. I don't think the same can be said about India.

PS. Oh, your statement about 'patriotic' Indians supporting Israel because of weapons from Israel and how the ordinary Indians are in 'shock' by Israeli action does not make sense, if you really think about. Truth be told: The average Indian may be thinking like a human being while the blogging (the real policy mindset) is having some Freudian Slips.

 

[desiman]

Absolutely - I am just reiterating the point that India's recent actions and statements on the Gaza raid, Iranian sanctions and purchasing gas from Iran IMO appoint to nothing more than diplomatic PR to get into the good books of States that might be able to assist it vis a vis Pakistan.

I see little tangible action by India on these issues unless Iran escapes sanctions and manages to get on a road to reconciliation with the US.

i dont think its its anything Pakistan really. Relations between Iran and India have mostly been good and the gas line is just another "i will give you lots of money for your oil thing ". Such projects have more of a private enterprise backing than government. Just imagine the profits for the company who bags such a huge project, people would kill for that kind of money anyday. So its all business my friend, only the fools get emotional.

In terms of tangible action, no country will do anything against Israel because of the stature they have managed to attain and you must acknowledge them for that. There isnt any evil out there my friend, but there are only those that are too weak to seek any power. If Israel was in the same position that Gaza is in today im sure no one would have done anything also. Muslims have themselves allowed all this to happen so we are the only ones to blame. Israel is merely a front or change agent. Iran is just another cash cow waiting to be milked and India or any other country will never let such an opportunity slide. Religion can never win against the human instinct to make a profit.

 

[EjazR]

Btw,
I don't see any point in explaining the GoI position. Is China's position put under as much scrutiny on Palestine as India is despite having larger trade relations with Israel and until recently defence deals as well? Both of them have non-muslim majorities. Maybe this shows Pakistani expediency as well on seeing and hearing what they want. Is Pakistan pressurizing China - their all weather friend as permanent UNSC member to act on Israel?

I was watching Talat Hussain's first interview(4-5 days after the incident) and I was shocked when a caller asked him questioning why India and US have not condemned Israeli actions, instead of correcting the perception of the caller, Talat continued to imply that India has not condemned Israeli actions which was done on the first day itself within a few hours. All it needed was a google search for India condemns Israel, but instead he talked about googling Indian writers supporting Israel.

I do consider him as objective, atleast what I had seen of him before. But maybe if he had found out that India did condemn Israel it would have been stated as a PR stunt, the aid to Palestine that India provided till date is still probably larger than Pakistani aid to Palestine but maybe that would be labeled as a PR stunt.

But Arabs and Palestinians don't think of it a such. The biggest trading bloc for India continues to be the GCC with more than US $100B annually in trade. Mahmoud Abbas has actually asked India to help in resolving the dispute BECAUSE India has good relations with both the Israelis and Palestinians. And that is what the reality is.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/58459-indian-aid-palestine.html

----------------
Also, I think some Indian posters are confused on what supporting Israel means. Support also means that if your friend does something wrong, you tell them that its wrong and ask him to correct it.
This is shown by many Zionist and Jewish articles who are supporters of Israel and still criticized the flotilla attacks.

 

[encounter]

I was talking in context of the CICA summit. the link you mentioned is for the 31st of May by the spokesman not on the CICA summit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, no need to brandish labels.

You know you are telling lies.

Chinese envoy urges "just, transparent" inquiry into Gaza flotilla raid

 

[jbond197]

@Su-47,


Religion has to be dragged here because the Indian author of this Topic is so obviously Muslim--Muslims have the strongest reaction against the Raid--and that a large number of Indian bloggers, perhaps the majority, are supportive of Israel's actions. Logically, it is safe to say that most Indian bloggers are Hindus and that's probably the main reason--given India-Pak rivalry--they are supportive of Israel. Contrast it to the fact that WORLDWIDE--whether atheist Chinese or Buddhist Koreans or Christian English--there is widespread condemnation of Israeli Raid.
Indians are standing out in support of Israel and, dare I say, Indian Hindus even more so. An honest poll will settle this.

Now, I know you have been an early critic of the Israeli attack. Kudos for that. I also know that not only in this blog--I won't even bother with Bharat-Rakshak--but also in the Comments part of 'Times of India' quite a few people were supportive of Israel: Crush the Muslims!

This Topic, again, is an attempt at damage control. Indian bloggers reflect the true Indian official feeling and mindset, IMHO. Only some 'practical' considerations are preventing the official India from speaking their honest mind.

As to Pakistan, well, Pakistan is cash-strapped, too dependent. But if push comes to shove, Pakistanis are going to join the Turks against Israel. I don't think the same can be said about India.

PS. Oh, your statement about 'patriotic' Indians supporting Israel because of weapons from Israel and how the ordinary Indians are in 'shock' by Israeli action does not make sense, if you really think about. Truth be told: The average Indian may be thinking like a human being while the blogging (the real policy mindset) is having some Freudian Slips.

Dude, something is wrong with Pakistani mindset in general coz you always equate India with Hindus which first of all is not true we have sizable population who are follower of other religions as well. I have seen on lots of occasion some of my friends try to cook their own stories using this India=Hindu card as if it will add any weight to their fantasy.

Now when we talk about opinion of Indian Govt it is actually opinion of most of its citizens irrespective of their faith/religion. Few individuals may have a difference of opinion but does that really mean anything. Nopes GOI is not going to change its position on the topic based on opinion of few

No sane Indian, having seen killing of innocents to terrorism emanating from its surroundings, will ever support killing of innocents at other places. You spoke about comments in Times of India comment section and Indian Bloggers but ever thought how many Indians write blogs or comments 0n TOI? How many Indian Hindus for that matter do you think will have access to Internet or actually will be blogging? If we talk in % it will be well below 0.1% of the whole population. So you mean that opinion of these will below 0.1% population will be the opinion of the whole Indian Hindu population in general. That’s Imaginative thinking. No wonder we see a new conspiracy theory raking up among you on a daily basis.

 

[EjazR]

You know you are telling lies.

Chinese envoy urges "just, transparent" inquiry into Gaza flotilla raid

Have you even read the news report, nowhere does it say its from the CICA summit. Its from the Chinese envoy in Israel, not from the CICA summit in Istanbul. And it doesn't even condemn Israeli actions.

I made my comment from the article that was posted
"China chose not to comment on the matter at the summit"

So no, I'm not deliberately telling "lies" , and what I said based on the news report still holds. Until you can show me otherwise.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You spoke about comments in Times of India comment section and Indian Bloggers but ever thought how many Indians write blogs or comments 0n TOI? How many Indian Hindus for that matter do you think will have access to Internet or actually will be blogging? If we talk in % it will be well below 0.1% of the whole population. So you mean that opinion of these will below 0.1% population will be the opinion of the whole Indian Hindu population in general. That’s Imaginative thinking. No wonder we see a new conspiracy theory raking up among you on a daily basis.

In the absence of data illustrating the viewpoints of this 'silent majority' you claim exists (such as credible polling date from credible organizations etc.) one can only draw conclusions based on data and evidence that exists (such as the opinions and views presented on Indian blogs, fora, newspapers etc.) and those views suggest an overwhelming majority of Indians support certain positions and 'attitudes', as mentioned by Meengla.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

i dont think its its anything Pakistan really. Relations between Iran and India have mostly been good and the gas line is just another "i will give you lots of money for your oil thing ". Such projects have more of a private enterprise backing than government. Just imagine the profits for the company who bags such a huge project, people would kill for that kind of money anyday. So its all business my friend, only the fools get emotional.

My point was not that India is engaging with Iran because of commercial interests, which would not really be anything worthwhile to talk about, but that India, at this point, has no serious intention of pursuing any gas projects with Iran given the hostility Iran is attracting from the US and other reasons. Therefore Indian statements and media reports on these issues are merely window dressing to try and get back in the good books of Iran after a series of faux pas that reduced Indian influence with Iran while Pakistan built up her own.

In terms of tangible action, no country will do anything against Israel because of the stature they have managed to attain and you must acknowledge them for that.

Well the Turks have in fact canceled military exercises and recalled their ambassador, as has South Africa, and even the US is reportedly working behind the scenes to get the Gaza blockade lifted in some way.

So some nations with influence are in fact using that influence to mold Israeli behavior towards a more positive direction, and as an Israeli client, India does have some influence it could exercise in order to change Israeli behavior.

There isnt any evil out there my friend, but there are only those that are too weak to seek any power. If Israel was in the same position that Gaza is in today im sure no one would have done anything also.

That is just a hypothetical - why wouldn't the world care if the situation was reversed?

Muslims have themselves allowed all this to happen so we are the only ones to blame. Israel is merely a front or change agent. Iran is just another cash cow waiting to be milked and India or any other country will never let such an opportunity slide. Religion can never win against the human instinct to make a profit.

Not Muslims, Arabs.

 

[humblehobbes]

AM ! I think its time to get down.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM ! I think its time to get down.

Not a chance so long as I can keep arguing in favor of my position.