India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[koushik]

Rafale uses M-88 turbofan engines manufactured by Snecma-Lazrac and the GTRE has a partnership with Snecma to update the Kaveri engines with a higher thrust and so there is a high possibility of Snecma integrating a fine tuned version of the Kaveri on the Rafale in future.

 

[SpArK]

Rafale uses M-88 turbofan engines manufactured by Snecma-Lazrac and the GTRE has a partnership with Snecma to update the Kaveri engines with a higher thrust and so there is a high possibility of Snecma integrating a fine tuned version of the Kaveri on the Rafale in future.

Add AMCA and LCA too.. our own engine in all our fighters.

 

[tallboy123]

So when will be the winner announced????? next year????

 

[Ammyy]

So when will be the winner announced????? next year????

commercial bids were expired at 31/12/11 so i think they will decide before that

 

[koushik]

Add AMCA and LCA too.. our own engine in all our fighters.

Ya.I almost forgot LCA-2 and AMCA.It would be a really proud moment.

 

[koushik]

So when will be the winner announced????? next year????

Air Chief Marshall P.V Naik said that the MMRCA shortlist would be announced by end April 2011 and he was correct about it and he said that the MMRCA winner would be announced by september 2011.

 

[jha]

Ya.I almost forgot LCA-2 and AMCA.It would be a really proud moment.

Forget LCA, Kaveri will never power LCA even with upgraded thrust..It will be used in AMCA only when DRDO gets its acts together because IAF is not impressed by this JV DRDO is proposing with Snecma and wants a complete indian powerplant for next indigenous fighter..

 

[Ignited Mind]

Forget LCA, Kaveri will never power LCA even with upgraded thrust..It will be used in AMCA only when DRDO gets its acts together because IAF is not impressed by this JV DRDO is proposing with Snecma and wants a complete indian powerplant for next indigenous fighter..

I don't understand why DRDO went with this JV anyway.

Wasn't the whole point of embarking on the kaveri project to develop a 100% indigenous engines?

 

[SpArK]

Forget LCA, Kaveri will never power LCA even with upgraded thrust..It will be used in AMCA only when DRDO gets its acts together because IAF is not impressed by this JV DRDO is proposing with Snecma and wants a complete indian powerplant for next indigenous fighter..

Thats an age old argument.. how different it will be an indigineous and JV could be...

IAF happy with JV 5th gen, JV Brahmos ,JV in many others but not engine... bull ...

 

[Ignited Mind]

Thats an age old argument.. how different it will be an indigineous and JV could be...

IAF happy with JV 5th gen, JV Brahmos ,JV in many others but not engine... bull ...

Engine is the most basic technology. That's why.

You have an indigenous engine, you have everything at your disposal. You can make fighters, commercial jets, in whatever numbers you want at any time of the year you want. You can aler the technology the way you want. Nobody can stop you.

You bring a foreign element in the engine, you are always tied to the whims of that foreign country. Without their consent, you cannot make a damn aircraft, you cannot sell a damn aircraft.

An engine can be sold without an aircraft but an aircraft cannot be sold without an engine.

There's a reason why major countries like China spare so many effort just to make an indigenous engine.

Engine is that key which can open the whole doors of aviation industry to you.

 

[SpArK]

Engine is the most basic technology. That's why.

You have an indigenous engine, you have everything at your disposal. You can make fighters, commercial jets, in whatever numbers you want at any time of the year you want. You can aler the technology the way you want. Nobody can stop you.

You bring a foreign element in the engine, you are always tied to the whims of that foreign country. Without their consent, you cannot make a damn aircraft, you cannot sell a damn aircraft.

So you are saying we will be having problem with a Joint venture Kaveri ..??

The use of that JV engine depends on the consent of France... hmmm Interesting...

 

[Ignited Mind]

So you are saying we will be having problem with a Joint venture Kaveri ..??

No not necessarily. Not as long as you are on good terms with france but the day your relationship turns sour, you will start experiencing all kinds of objections from their side.

It's simple. The one who owns the technology, owns the product.

The use of the engine per se will not depend on france but how you use their technology, what kind of engines you make with their technology, how you alter their technology, how many engines you produce with their technology, to whom you sell those engines with their technology...all of this depends on France AS WELL.

Their tech., their call. Simple.

 

[SpArK]

Anyway the IAF's opposition was nt due to these reasons..

The Kaveri-Snecma joint venture has been criticised by the IAF on grounds that Snecma, which is a derivative of the M-88 engine developed for the Rafale aircraft, has a similar core like that of the Kaveri engine and the joint venture involves GTRE building the peripheral of the core, which would not solve the purpose of having the joint venture, but would basically be the license production of Snecma, for which around 300 orders are being envisaged by Snecma before it enters into this license production.


By the inclusion of Snecma, the purpose of indigenisation is defeated by the GTRE and even if Snecma is involved, it will not disclose its core technology, which amounts to nothing but license production, he added.

Chindits: Kaveri-Snecma JV Try Back-door Entry In LCA

That was news which is 2 years old, but lets hope the resolve the issue ASAP and even go for the initial position of technical assistance.

 

[Ignited Mind]

Anyway the IAF's opposition was nt due to these reasons..




Chindits: Kaveri-Snecma JV Try Back-door Entry In LCA

That was news which is 2 years old, but lets hope the resolve the issue ASAP and even go for the initial position of technical assistance.

Read between the lines, Benny. That's exactly what the IAF is objecting about. Take your time.

Ok let's do this.

basically be the license production of Snecma

That's what the IAF doesn't want. The IAF doesn't want to rely on Snecma completely.

Their point is simple, as in, "Why the hell did we embark on the Kaveri project to make an indigenous engine, anyway. What's indigenous in this?"

 

[jha]

So you are saying we will be having problem with a Joint venture Kaveri ..??

The use of that JV engine depends on the consent of France... hmmm Interesting...

French companies are known for such attitudes...They demanded ~200 crores for designing just a new transmission for LUH..The total budget allocated for LUH is 386 crores...This is one of the reason I am against RAFALE ( even though it suits the IAF requirement better )..
Can never trust French..