India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[sancho]

Should one be pessimistic about that timeframe... considering the inordinate delays in the Mirage 2000 upgrade program, specifically by the finance guys?
Is the decision going to be based solely on the most commercially attractive option( advantage EF).. or is the international political scenario expected to table the decision a bit more after the commercial proposals have been scrutinized?

Second try. The Mirage deal is not negotiated by FM so far, there were only MoD/IAF negotiating with the manufacturers about what the upgrade will include and what it will cost.
For MMRCA the biggest delay factor imo and also in the opinion of the IAF Chief Naik, were vendors complaining that they are out, but since even Boeing admitted that they lost, it seems not even political pressure will change anything here.
From the start it was officially stated that ToT and improving our industry are prime requirements and imo that was also the reason to not buy Mirage 2000s and switch to the bigger M MRCA competition. The risks of delays were calculated, because the outcome is much higher now, so the comercial side will have a major role and as I said before, is one reason why the EF was shortlisted, besides of putting pressure on the French.
Politics won't be a big point anymore, because only the US would have been a real game changer for India (especially in the UN), the European countries can only support, or be a strategic partner and in this case France would be the safest and most capable option.

 

[luckyyy]

Still waiting for you to prove that there is a final Mig 35 prototype with all the claimed changes, but I guess you need some more time to search, because the chance to find it is not that high.

still waiting for you to prove that there is no Mig 35 prototype existes ..

 

[sancho]

France zeroes in on lightweight weapon for Rafale

France is close to selecting a new, reduced collateral effect weapon for its Dassault Rafale fighters, with the need for a lightweight air-to-surface store having been underlined by its recent combat experience over Libya.
Discussions involving the air force and France's DGA defence procurement agency have advanced over the recent weeks, with several options understood to be under consideration...


..."Brimstone is a solution, but it's not the only option," said Stéphane Reb, the DGA's Rafale programme manager. Other candidates could include guided rockets or a weapon in the class of Lockheed Martin's small contained-area precision energetic load bomb, or Scalpel, said industry sources. Meetings about a possible acquisition were held in late May, and a selection decision could come soon.
Acquiring a precision-guided, lightweight weapon for the Rafale has interested the French military for some time, with a TDA 68mm rocket pod having been exhibited alongside a Rafale at 2009's Paris air show.

France zeroes in on lightweight weapon for Rafale

SCALPEL

SCALPEL® offers a precise, small weapon system with low collateral damage in urban environments. SCALPEL is a spiral development program leveraging the qualified and aircraft-certified paveway II Enhanced Laser Guided Training Round (E-LGTR) technology. With its E-LGTR infrastructure already in place, SCALPEL offers minimal aircraft integration costs, minimal development effort, low technical and schedule risk, and affordable unit cost.

SCALPEL | Lockheed Martin

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/mfc/MFC-SCALPEL-Product_Card.pdf



Mock up of the guided rocket pod:

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1047/1272831878.jpg
(left side under the wing)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1783/bourget039.jpg

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5130/bourget096.jpg

 

[luckyyy]

extended bids from the two contenders valid only until December.

so , the MMRCA decision will be coming on first week of jan 2012..

but , will india buy any one of these at any quoted price ?

certainly not , there must be a defined range under which the FM has allocated the funds for MMRCA , what if both contender's quoted bids over range the allocated fund ?

will the next in line contenders will be called in for bidding ?

that's why , Saab has not given up hope of winning the Indian air force's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest yet..
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ab-keeps-watch-on-indian-fighter-contest.html

 

[KEETARP]

One effort would be to add a single-ship precision emitter geolocation capability to the fighter

What is this single ship capability , can't Rafale geolocate targets alone by itself

 

[shaktiman2010]

Of MMRCA? Somewhere later this year, they now has to open the compercial bids, compare them, if necessary add another round of negotiations and then will take a decision on which fighter/offer is the best suited to their (IAF/ possibly IN/ GoI / Indian defence industry) requirements.

Let's hope it goes into 2014. MRCA is wasteful anyways.

 

[rajusri]

What is this single ship capability , can't Rafale geolocate targets alone by itself

It can. The Sagem INS GPS can do that.

 

[dbc]

What is this single ship capability , can't Rafale geolocate targets alone by itself

Apparently not, its a future planned capability.

 

[sancho]

A true Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft


Air Defense

CAS

SEAD

Maritime attack

Deep strike

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GwS-DBCcqf0/TeBZvZhx33I/AAAAAAAABLQ/UZFMbLrEa8Q/s1600/2009260205.jpg

Reconnaissance

Nuclear strike

Inflight refueling

 

[Kinetic]

Good pics sancho. Thanks. But I think EFT can do all these jobs. Weapons of both these fighters look nearly same but sensors and EW are better in EFT.

 

[luckyyy]

What is this single ship capability , can't Rafale geolocate targets alone by itself

rafale radar didn't have that range..

 

[DacterSaab]

how is the last picture "Inflight Refeuling" shouldn't it be "CATOBAR Capable Carrier Launch"????

lolz thats CCCL 1 of the major benefits.

I think Rafale should be chosen blindly because of 2 words. "no sanctions"
the EFT purchase will have to be cleared by the US first. (not that they won't clear it for NOW. but who can guarantee the future?) This fighter will form the medium weight part of our fleet approximately 1/3rd of our total fleet in no. We can't choose to loose that large a fleet during a crisis.

 

[sancho]

Good pics sancho. Thanks. But I think EFT can do all these jobs. Weapons of both these fighters look nearly same but sensors and EW are better in EFT.

Sorry to disappoint you my friend, but the EF can only do 2 roles, air defence and limited CAS as we can see it now in Libya. Anything more requires more weapons, techs and capabilities (no PGM, no anti ship, no cruise missile, no 2000lb bomb, no ASMP-A no reece pod, no refuelling pod), which it don't get anytime soon and only if we will fund them with additional money.

how is the last picture "Inflight Refeuling" shouldn't it be "CATOBAR Capable Carrier Launch"????

Because it carries an refuelling pod on the centerline station and 4 x fuel tanks to carry the fuel, here is another example:

All these roles shown in the post can be done by Rafales for air force and navy, which means maximum capability possible for IAF and IN!

 

[luckyyy]

Sorry to disappoint you my friend, but the EF can only do 2 roles, air defence and limited CAS ...

and surprisingly IAF didn't notice it before making EF into the shortlist and have to heard it on PDF from a poster...

 

[sancho]

and surprisingly IAF didn't notice it before making EF into the shortlist and have to heard it on PDF from a poster...

Of course IAF noticed it in the trials where German EFs that were in India couldn't show anything else than good aerodynamic performance, by the fact that it has no AESA radar, no IRST, limited avionics and no strike capability. During the trials in Europe they saw test flights of an early AESA demo version and weapon trials of 500 and 1000lb LGBs, but that's it. Not to forget that IAF is monitoring the Libyan conflict as well and all they see is the same limited capability.
One reason I think it was only shortlisted to put pressure on the French, capability, or costwise the F18SH would have been a stronger competitior for Rafale.