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India’s vanishing Parsis

On the charge of proselytizing, the accusers may want to take a look at this and decide if their charges hold water:

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/pdf/helengerth.pdf


Please read the CONCLUSION section pasted below at least - pretty revealing about how our community is hardwired compared to the prevalent viewpoints and stereotypes we are generally exposed to in this part of the world!

For Zoroastrians, manifestations of communities of affirmation, social networking spaces,
resource centers, and creation of transmovement spaces to build opportunities for face to face
contact are arenas that sculpt a virtual landscape where a quiet social movement is steadily
shifting the contours of identity, and at times, seeking to expand group boundaries. It is one of
words and meetings and email dialogues to mobilize opinion and generate articulate, written
protests against various issues.

Never before has Zarathushti expression been soon display than through the
Zarathushti e-mail alias…and web sites that provide a forum for the thought and
feeling of the day. Email after email travel through cyberspace and into our
homes and offices, where extremists from the right and left do battle almost daily

(Engineer 1999:pg.41)

Quiet it may be in contrast to other religions and ethnicities whose discussions of survival spill
over their social and geographical boundaries into acts of sectarian violence
(Armstrong 2001,
Juergensmeyer 2001). But as Engineer suggests, in the often volatile communications online it is
a ‘battle ground’ of opposing viewpoints. Thus there are two movements in essence.

One is a movement for revitalizing the vibrancy and dedication of members against the fragmenting and assimilation forces of diaspora and modernity. As such, it is aimed at internal changes and
strengthening collective identity and tightening group borders.

The other movement is focused within the community for change and diversity of practice and ideology which may at times also be directed outward aimed at making Zoroastrianism a more widely recognized belief. As such, it weakens group boundaries and pushes for a wider, more inclusive definition of collective identity. In more extreme cases, it is also directed outward in an attempt to include those outside group boundaries and bring them inside – to share Zoroastrianism as a universal religion with a message of hope and insight for the world.

The Zoroastrian community I observed in this study, this social manifestation online, is different from other online religious groups and a brief comparison offers further insight into the motivations and mindset of Zoroastrians in the virtual world. Zoroastrianism is a ‘quiet’ social movement not only because it uses words rather than actual physical confrontation to push forward change and diversity. It historically has not used the Internet to proselytize and ‘sell’ its perspective to gain converts. It does not yet use the Internet for online services and fellowshipping. It does not reproduce rituals to be replayed online as a way of participation in the religion. It has been focused within itself to redefine itself in the face of declining population and a recent influx of individuals who wish to be included. This is very much unlike other sites that actively attempt to bring in converts, actively attempt to spread their view of the world as a fundamental philosophical perspective.

One final thought on the online Zoroastrian community as a ‘quiet’ social movement - there
have been several calls online to mobilize public opinion using the Internet to effect social
change. As was discussed above in the presentation of the Internet’s transmovement effect,
many of these calls are aimed at changes that seem small relative to the scale of national or
international social change for they are aimed at a specific item such as lobbying the film maker
of the movie Alexander to remove the fravahor image. Bold statements to move the 9th World
Zoroastrian Congress from Dubai is a much wider and stronger call not only for consequential
meetings between members planning the conference to discuss and perhaps move the
conference, but also for a social activism beyond their group boundaries. In this light Zoroastrians
are presented with an opportunity for a social movement that could initiate an international call for social change. It is ‘quiet’ in its call for peaceful methods of demonstration using words and ‘nonaction’.

It does not call for boycotts or lobbying of world leaders, simple a worded statement of a
change of venue because of a government’s repeated violations of what this community holds as
core values.
To not hold the conference in Dubai is to withhold money and supportive public
relations. It is a public announcement of non-support by a well respected community. Like Rosa
Parks’ refusal to sit at the back of the bus, it is an action that may well call attention to injustice and spark others to act. In truth, it is the quietest yet firmest statement possible.

Implications for Zoroastrian Community


Dolly Dastoor, former President of FEZANA and current editor for the FEZANA journal
summarizes the impact of forces for community integration and unity as well as fragmentation as
a result of the Internet:

…this cyber community has grown into a virtual nation…For Zarathushtis, the
Internet has been a boon, melting away 1,300 years of anxiety and separation
and joining us into a single virtual but very tangible community
(Dastoor 2005:pg3-4)

I argue that there are far greater reaching impacts on the global community than simply a
polarization of existing differences as time passes and the Internet becomes even more
entrenched in daily life. The strength of a ‘virtual nation’ can cement group cohesion and sets the idea of global Zoroastrian identity on par with nationalism. In this case, it is a force that exceeds the nationalism of small groups or individuals to forge a bond across nations uniting the
Zoroastrian Diaspora.
The at times conflicting messages and questionable authenticity
underscores the latitude for individuals to forge differing self-identities within the group. It is not
clear yet how deeply the dialectic between these two forces will affect the community as a whole, though there are indications of how factors of cohesion and fragmentation are shaping the face of Zoroastrianism in the ways the differing schools of thought are defining themselves against one another. There are generational differences as well to consider, and the possibilities are
foreshadowed perhaps in the controversial debates on Z-book and lists over statements of a
younger generation criticizing religious dictates and pursuing alternate lifestyles while still holding
onto the Zoroastrian identity.


I would propose looking at the Internet as another phase of the Zoroastrian Diaspora. If
transplantation leads to transformation as Yang and Embaugh suggest and the Internet is a
‘space of belonging’ (Fernback 1997), then the shifts and transformations seen online are part of
progression of how immigrant religions adjust identity. Technology, far from being a
homogenizing force as Barber insists, becomes a means of controlling to some degree the
changes within communities. The ability to create bonds of shared commitment to a way of life
allow the Zoroastrian community, and other diasporas, a means of shaping that which would
shape them.


An Online Case Study and Contributions: Foundations Revisited


This research was entered into with the belief that it would validate the Internet with its far
reaching communication capabilities as a vehicle for building global Zoroastrian community
cohesion. It was intended to build as well on Hinnells’ diaspora work by examining the impact of the Internet on the second Diaspora from Iran and India and to document what I will call the third Diaspora into virtual space.

It bears stating here that I had very little background in the Zoroastrian community prior to
this research. I did not have friends or close associates that I had spoken with over great lengths
of time or grown up with. I did have the gracious guidance at key points of scholars working with
and in some cases part of the community. Yet, much of what I have come to understand about
the community – their sense of who they are and why some practices are imbued with such
spiritual importance- comes from my interactions online and from the wealth of information
available online that brought the scholarly work I synchronically reviewed to life. I believe that this underscores the importance and versatility of the Internet in understanding the vitality of collective identity and self definition online, the virtual and physical communities built, and for some
individuals their engagement in both on and offline social networks.

One can obtain knowledge from books, but this does not replace the wisdom and
understanding that comes from social interaction and involvement.
This study was an opportunity to begin that process of interaction and involvement that has introduced me to several individuals within the community that are very active and often polarizing figures. Online dialogue allowed me to speak with and ask questions of individuals such as Khojeste Mistree, Alexander Bard, Ronald Delavaga, and Ali Jafarey who speak for very different perspectives on Zoroastrianism which would have been much more difficult to meet within a conventional frame of ethnographic methodology.
 
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Abii here is a link to the Zoroastrian Society of Ontario with contact details and phone numbers.

Zoroastrian Society of Ontario - POA EDUCATIONAL FOUNDATION

Apparently they have 5000 Zoroastrians registered with them (not bad). They also claim the Zoroastrian population of the world in the 7th century AD was 15 million :P

For conversions, there is a site called bozorgbazgasht.com

Which literally translates to "The Great Return Organisation"

They seem to be very active, and have actually performed many Navjotes (which they call Sedreh Pooshi) in places like Russia, Norway etc. (they have photos too)

They say Bozorg Bazgasht Org will soon organize new Sedreh Pooshi/Navjote ceremonies for those who wish to join Zarathushti Religion in different countries. (they have given a map of the world with all continents marked and named and there is a Persian language option as well)

Please contact us via email or post if you wish to attend the ceremonies or need help for holding a Sedreh Pooshi / Navjote ceremony in your city.

Here is something about them:

Anjuman-e Bozorg Bazgasht (great return organization) is part of Det Norske Zarathushthriske Trossamfunn (Zarathushthrian Association of Norway).

Its goal is to help people all around the world to learn and convert into Zarathushthrian religion. (pretty radical by our standards! but I guess people got to do what people got to do)

Bozorg Bazgasht Org. is a religious association without any political interest. Bozorg Bazgasht warmly welcomes cooperation in religious activities with all Zarathushthrian groups and Anjumans in the world.

We have proudly helped many to learn the faith and to convert to our ancestor's religion. If you wish to learn or convert into Zoroastrianism you may contact us by E-Mail and we will arrange the conversion service free of charge no matter where your location is.

This organisation is a non-profit organisation and relies on donations from lovers of Ashoo Zartosht and enthusiasts of ancestor's religion who believe that our effort will make a change. If you have any questions, suggestions or you like to donate so please contact us by E-mail.

Here is what their CONVERSION section reads like (perfect for you):

Conversion

Anjuman-e Bozorg Bazgasht (great return organization) is established in order to help people who want to join Zarathushthrian religion regardless of race, religion was born in,language and nationality. Zarathushthrian religion is belong to mankind. Everyone who wishes to convert into the faith should educate himself/herself in Zarathushthrian theology, ideology, philosophy, history and basic prayers known as "Avestaye Bayesteh" , which is daily prayers one should learn before being initiated.To learn above subjects ,we suggest you to study recommended books written by Zarathushthrian scholars.

How to convert into Zarathushthrian religion?

To learn about Zarathushtrianism you will need to study holly Avesta and recommened books written by Zarathushthrian scholars.Here is list of books we suggest you to read:

- The Zoroastrian Tradition,

By Farhang Mehr


- Zoroastrianism, An Ethnic perspective,

By Khojesteh P. Mistree (the guy I was telling you about)


- The Gathas of Zarathushtra,

By Piloo Nanavutty


- Mazdayasni,

By Ervad Peshotan Framarz Peer


- Afrin Paigambar Zarathosht,

By Adil Firoze Rangoonwalla


- A Zoroastrian Tapestry, Art, Religion and

Culture,

By Godrej & Punthakey Mistree (I have this book. Huge!)


- In search of Divine Light, The

Zarathushtrian Way,

By Behram D.Pithavala


- Khordeh Avesta,

By Ervad Maneck Furdoonji Kanga (nice standard version. He is a mobed)


- Gathas of Zarathustra ,

By Irach J. S. Taraporewala


- A Zoroastrian Tapestry Art, Religion &

Culture,

By Pheroza J. Godrej


- The Teachings of Zoroaster and the Philosophy of the

Parsi Religion

By S.A.Kapadia


- The Gathas of Zarathushtra: Hymns in Praise of Wisdom

By Piloo Nanavutty


- Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices

By Mary Boyce


- A history of Zoroastrianism

By Mary Boyce

You can read this book online on Google Books in below link:

A History of Zoroastrianism: The early period - Mary Boyce - Google Books

- Zoroastrianism in the Light of Theosophy
By Nasarvanji F. Bilimoria

- Zoroastrianism Ancient and Modern: Comprising a
Review of Dr. Dhalla's Book of Zoroastrian Theology
(Classic Reprint)

By Phiroze Shapurji Masani

- Zoroastrianism in the Light of Theosophy; Being a
Collection of Selected Articles from the Theosophical
Literature

By Nasarvanj Bilimoria


Please also visit below websites where you can find lots of good information about Zarathushthrian religion:

Books for Sale

AVESTA -- Zoroastrian Archives

After studying above books you can request Bozorg Bazgasht to perform an initiatin ceremony (also called Sedreh Pooshi in Persian and Navjot in Gojrati) for you.

If you need help for finding or ordering above books or how to read religios texts and prayers please contact us via email,phone or mail.


Hope that helps! (more homework :lol:)

Best bet - get in touch with Zarathostis. They will do the rest. Just make sure they are young. The older ones may be cranky.
Holy Ahura Mazada lol
You're doing my work for me man.

thanks

I've got a lot of reading to do this week
 
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go 2 iran tell it 2 mahmoud ahmedijad

he's put a bamboo in ur *** :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Post reported. Whether you believe in a view point or not YOU have no right to post abusive comments about another member. please refrain otherwise you will be sent away permanently.
Araz

Guys I will respond in a day or so. I have very fond memories of my school days in KArachi .It was a Parsi school. I had a lot of Parsi friends who with few exceptions were very gentle souls. However please can someone clear my understanding that you cannot convert ot the Zorastrian faith. IF that is the case what changes have been brought about in the faith to circumvent this restriction.
Help would be appreciated.
Araz
 
. . .
Post reported. Whether you believe in a view point or not YOU have no right to post abusive comments about another member. please refrain otherwise you will be sent away permanently.
Araz

Guys I will respond in a day or so. I have very fond memories of my school days in KArachi .It was a Parsi school. I had a lot of Parsi friends who with few exceptions were very gentle souls. However please can someone clear my understanding that you cannot convert ot the Zorastrian faith. IF that is the case what changes have been brought about in the faith to circumvent this restriction.
Help would be appreciated.
Araz

Araz that is indeed a misconception that superimposes the laws of the Indian based/origin Parsi Zoroastrian community on to the whole faith.

Granted that today, the Indian Parsi Zoroastrian community is pretty much the flag bearer of the ancient faith, but the actual rules of the faith per our ancient Gathas and more recent Avesta say nothing about conversion not being allowed.

Especially so when we talk about Iranian Persians.

I dropped in on my parents over the weekend for dinner. And we started discussing this thread on PDF and about how so many Iranians want to revert. My dad is the easy going sort, while my mum is fixed firmly in the center of the ultra-conservative highly traditional Parsi mindset on bloodlines and conversion.

At first I saw the look of strong reservation on her face when she asked me whether these Iranians were Muslim (she herself is an Iroon. Not Parsi). But when I told her that that these were indeed Muslim now but were Persian mainly, she said something that I NEVER expected, having known and been exposed to this Parsi viewpoint all my life.

She said with a sigh "Oh then that's ok. Do we have a choice anymore?"

So times change and cast in stone dogma does as well. The priests and mobeds of our faith will have to hit the books again, and convince this mindset within our community that we are not diluting the effort of 14 centuries by letting the Persians back into the faith.

Because the Persians should NOT be caught in no-man's land of no faith, neither here nor there. Where their desire to embrace their ancestral faith draws them away from Islam and towards Zoroastrianism, but once that bridge is burned, Zoroastrianism is not yet ready to formally initiate them per our ancient rituals and prayers in our holy fire temples.

Zoroastrianism is not only about personal faith. We are an extremely religious people. Even though by modern standards, we do not visit the fire temple very often (maybe Navroze, Behram Roj, Muktad time, Pateti, and brithdays/weddings), we do believe very strongly.

No Parsi is ambiguous about his faith or questions its ancient tenets. No Parsi is agnostic or an atheist post his Navjote. Yes they are not ultras, but they believe and they are strongly rooted. Immovably so.
 
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Nice thread!

Good job guys.

Good measured posting.

I would now like to tell you about our Angels!! :)
 
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Some authentic Iranian Zoroastrian girls, especially for angeldust ;)

img1897sd8.jpg


Nice thread with lots of additional info and an Iranian perspective as Iranians discuss their ancestral faith.

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=21822&highlight=parsi

Apparently a large number of them became "legal Muslims" after the revolution due to the Inheritance Laws.

Turkey has Zoroastrians. And Kurds are Zoroastrian. Both of which I did not know.
 
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Some authentic Iranian Zoroastrian girls, especially for angeldust ;)

img1897sd8.jpg


Nice thread with lots of additional info and an Iranian perspective as Iranians discuss their ancestral faith.

Zoroastrianism - Iran Defense Forum

Apparently a large number of them became "legal Muslims" after the revolution due to the Inheritance Laws.

Turkey has Zoroastrians. And Kurds are Zoroastrian. Both of which I did not know.

What are they holding?
 
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Looks like food.

Like big nans.

And the answer to your signature question - Harappans come back to life.
 
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Looks like food.

Like big nans.

And the answer to your signature question - Harappans come back to life.

My signature question was for Pakistanis, if they gave up Islam their identity wont be different than Indians.
 
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My signature question was for Pakistanis, if they gave up Islam their identity wont be different than Indians.

Nope you are new here.

They were never Indian.

Harappan. Then they went under for a few millenia with the Saraswati.

Then came back from the cryogenic freeze. As Muslims.
 
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