India’s vanishing Parsis

[Armstrong]

Armstrong, the Parsis are a community, not a religion per se. We are Zoroastrian, but not all Zoroastrians are Parsis.

I guess what angeldust is saying is that the Parsis do not worry about the survival of the faith any longer. We weathered that storm and helped Iranian Zoroastrians emerge and regain some sort of footing in Islamic Iran.

But if we convert, if we inter-marry, then we dilute our bloodlines, and very quickly, because of the impossibly small denominator base, we get engulfed by the dominant bloodlines and then what do we have?

We loose what we are in trying to save what we are.

Dude, you do realize that modern science maintains that we're all from the same source and that we evolved in different directions ! Anthropology too charts a fascinating course of human development where these 'unique attributes or practices' were born ! We're the same, Doctor Sahib...! We're the same !

 

[vsdoc]

Dude, you do realize that modern science maintains that we're all from the same source and that we evolved in different directions ! Anthropology too charts a fascinating course of human development where these 'unique attributes or practices' were born ! We're the same, Doctor Sahib...! We're the same !

Its racial paranoia inbred into us man. The paranoia of a refugee community that has its roots in persecution and loss of one integral element of its civilizational identity.

BLOOD.

FAITH.

SOIL.

We left the soil to preserve the faith.

Leaving the blood is seen by the community as the last fall into the abyss of identity existentialism.

 

[INDIC]

Its racial paranoia inbred into us man. The paranoia of a refugee community that has its roots in persecution and loss of one integral element of its civilizational identity.

BLOOD.

FAITH.

SOIL.

We left the soil to preserve the faith.

Leaving the blood is seen by the community as the last fall into the abyss of identity existentialism.

How does Parsi and Iroon view each others. Very few Indians know about second wave of Zoroastrian migration into India, I came to know about Iroons only recently.

 

[vsdoc]

How does Parsi and Iroon view each others. Majority of Indians see Iroon as a Parsi only, I came to know about Iroons only recently.

Iroons is what we call the Iranian Zoroastrians. Both the ones who came over as well as the ones still staying behind in Iran.

We consider them our own. We inter marry. There are differences in customs to an extent, in calenders, and decreasingly language. Their surnames are also different. First names are either Persian or increasingly anglicized generic for both.

They are not known for their social graces per the more genteel (and snobbish) Parsis, as well are more guttural in tongue So we lovingly also call them Iroon khacchars or Iroon junglis.

But no, neither we nor they consider them to be Parsis. The Parsis remain that branch which came over in waves between 700 to 1000 AD.

 

[INDIC]

Iroons is what we call the Iranian Zoroastrians. Both the ones who came over as well as the ones still staying behind in Iran.

We consider them our own. We inter marry. There are differences in customs to an extent, in calenders, and decreasingly language. Their surnames are also different. First names are either Persian or increasingly anglicized generic.

They are not known for their social graces per the more genteel (and snobbish) Parsis, as well are more guttural in tongue So we lovingly also call them Iroon khacchars or Iroon junglis.

But no, neither we nor they consider them to be Parsis. The Parsis remain that branch which came over in waves between 700 to 1000 AD.

Few years ago, I watched a movie of Nasiruddin Shah where he acted as a Parsi working in Mumbai Police. There I know about a different Parsi tongue different from Gujarati to talk with each other. When he met the another Parsi who was lawyer.

 

[vsdoc]

Few years ago, I watched a movie of Nasiruddin Shah where he acted as a Parsi working in Mumbai Police. There I know about a different tongue different from Gujarati to talk with each other. When he met the another Parsi who was lawyer.

Probably Dari.

Which movie?

 

[INDIC]

Probably Dari.

Which movie?

The movie name was "encounter the killing", Naseeruddin Shah's role in the movie named as Sam Bharucha.

 

[curioususer]

Dude, you do realize that modern science maintains that we're all from the same source and that we evolved in different directions ! Anthropology too charts a fascinating course of human development where these 'unique attributes or practices' were born ! We're the same, Doctor Sahib...! We're the same !

Its racial paranoia inbred into us man. The paranoia of a refugee community that has its roots in persecution and loss of one integral element of its civilizational identity.

BLOOD.

FAITH.

SOIL.

We left the soil to preserve the faith.

Leaving the blood is seen by the community as the last fall into the abyss of identity existentialism.

Although science may say that but strict Hindus see it differently.

I read somewhere that one of the beliefs of Hinduism is that the world is made up of sounds, so people of one ethnicity are made up of different sounds and marrying people of different ethnicity corrupts and degenerates the purity of it. There are very sound explanations for these beliefs in some scriptures of Hinduism, I'm not a Parsi but I'm guessing Zoroastrianism also has a similar belief seeing that it is a sister religion of Vedic religion.

 

[livingdead]

You need to read up on the history of Zoroastrianism and ancient Persian theology before commenting. Zoroastrianism grew and evolved out of ancient Persian faiths as Hinduism did out of ancient Vedic faiths.

Islam is as foreign to Iran as it is to India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Fair enough, it grew out of existing religion. I just assumed that monotheism is a departure sharp enough to be called conversion (like christianity or islam in their country of origin).
Nobody will deny that islam was forced on iranians, but that was long time ago.
Today's iranian should decide the faith of his choice based on his own criteria (and just because a religion is of foreign origin does not make it inferior or unsuitable for a place).
I think we both agree that religion is a personal choice, I am just skeptical about the assumption here that iran under zorastrianism will be any better. (imagine shankaracharya being above our PM in power)

 

[vsdoc]

Fair enough, it grew out of existing religion. I just assumed that monotheism is a departure sharp enough to be called conversion (like christianity or islam in their country of origin).

You should really read up, and I do not mean that in a bad way. Dualist Mithraism did not predate monotheistic Zoroastrianism, bu co-existed temporally as an offshoot.

Either way, they were Mazdayasni faith evoltionary forms, unique to the Persians, just as we collectively club different faiths growing organically form Indian soil as Dharmic faiths.

Even Bahaism and Shia Islam are largely Zoroastrian, much more so than the influence on Sunni Islam, and Christianity and Judaism before them.

This is NOT a clash of religions or faiths alone. This is, and always has been, a clash of race and blood.

Shorn of all its baggage, what do you think the deal between Sunni and Shia Islam is, in its purest genesis form?

Nobody will deny that islam was forced on iranians, but that was long time ago.

A thousand years is nothing. Not when for a large chunk of it, there has neither been voluntary acceptance nor a change in mindset as a people.

I have read in many locations Iranians openly saying that all Iranians (definitely all Persians) are born Zoroastrian, and feel Zoroastrian. Calling them Muslim does not change that.

Thats why if you notice, I prefer "faith" over "religion." One is persoinal. The other institutionalized.

One is between you and God. The other is between you and the mortal Priest - with God distant and on the other side.

 

[funtoosh]

ek Pestom Donor ya Rustom Donor ki zaroorat hai

You should really read up, and I do not mean that in a bad way. Dualist Mithraism did not predate monotheistic Zoroastrianism, bu co-existed temporally as an offshoot.

Either way, they were Mazdayasni faith evoltionary forms, unique to the Persians, just as we collectively club different faiths growing organically form Indian soil as Dharmic faiths.

Even Bahaism and Shia Islam are largely Zoroastrian, much more so than the influence on Sunni Islam, and Christianity and Judaism before them.

This is NOT a clash of religions or faiths alone. This is, and always has been, a clash of race and blood.

Shorn of all its baggage, what do you think the deal between Sunni and Shia Islam is, in its purest genesis form?



A thousand years is nothing. Not when for a large chunk of it, there has neither been voluntary acceptance nor a change in mindset as a people.

I have read in many locations Iranians openly saying that all Iranians (definitely all Persians) are born Zoroastrian, and feel Zoroastrian. Calling them Muslim does not change that.

Thats why if you notice, I prefer "faith" over "religion." One is persoinal. The other institutionalized.

One is between you and God. The other is between you and the mortal Priest - with God distant and on the other side.

imagine you are the farmer and god is the sabzi mandi. the farmer will get better price if he can sell directly in the mandi. but these middlemen take a huge cut in between (religion and priest)
thats why we need FDI in retail.

 

[vsdoc]

thats why we need FDI in retail.

We definitely do not require anything foreign, when we are already endowed with the original.

 

[funtoosh]

We definitely do not require anything foreign, when we are already endowed with the original.

LOL.. then as I mentioend earlier we need Rustom Donor .. cmon guys.. batthi bhujao... sone jao...
No to vanishing Parsi

 

[Armstrong]

Its racial paranoia inbred into us man. The paranoia of a refugee community that has its roots in persecution and loss of one integral element of its civilizational identity.

BLOOD.

FAITH.

SOIL.

We left the soil to preserve the faith.

Leaving the blood is seen by the community as the last fall into the abyss of identity existentialism.

Doctor Sahib...does this mean the Nauheed Cyrusi can never be mine ?

 

[funtoosh]

Doctor Sahib...does this mean the Nauheed Cyrusi can never be mine ?

what is nauheed cyrusi?