India’s nuclear submarine to trigger arms race: Pak Navy

[Myth_buster_1]

Well yes.. But Its not India which is putting Asia into an arms race, its china... U cannot leave your country defence less, might be possible for pakistan, but India cannot... we are concerned

look... india can avoid rivalry with china if they wish too.. if china was your real enemy then they would have kicked your butt again when dailial lama and his terrorists groups were creating havoc in china.. but thats not the case.. they want china to be their enemy so that they can justify their billions of dollars of arms purchase... they can tell the west that they are counter balancing a communist state china.. while their intention is to keep south asia under their arms...
the real terrorists state is india.. terrorizing, Srilanka, bangladesh, nepal, pakistan, china and not to forget its own population such as muslims sikhs and Christians..

 

[agastya]

agastya

where should i begin with? i mean BR produces so many brain washed junkies army and after graduating from that funny forum they all flood in here like mosquitoes in a tent.. lol...
btw... you should feel lucky that you are enjoying the freedom of speech which lacks very badly in your forums.. their ego wont be satisfied when they dont bash islam or pakistan in every other posts of theirs.. i can tackle your immature posts, and this being the prime example. i can go on and say... in pakistan india is only known for... hindus are known for worshiping idols and rats while indian muslims and nothing more. i feel sorry for you type of misinformed individuals.. why? because once their bobble is burst they cry very hard..

coming back to the topic...

just how arms race are triggered between rivals? well... when one side is introducing new type or arms the other side is forced to counter it and it goes on and on...

pardon mr. growler
have i any where in this forum has ever ever said a single word degrading islam if ever have i done that i interested if you show that to me ....



neither am i like you who alwys brings religion between two country while commenting upon serious just ,just for a few moment cant you look out without wearing those stereotypical lenses...so we can rather have a country specific discussion.....


and for god shake stop that hindu bashing attitude of yours .it shows nothing but your narrow minded approach

and what type of bubble are you talking off buddy???
the bubble of yahya, ayub,niazi or musharraf...

and about your "about the topic " discussion

i hve already posted my viewS so rather re read it


ps:: more refined use of word would rather be appreciated

 

[PAFAce]

The ignorance on display here is quite incredible. Mr. WebMaster starts a thread that I thought would be interesting and invite some intelligent insight, and the very first reply is a ridiculous chest-pumping load of crap by agastya (another man whose days on this forum seem numbered), a perfect display of the desperation by some of our Indian friends to put us down. And it continues all the way down.

But, I choose to stick with the topic. Everyone is a culprit here, including Pakistan and India. India, quite obviously, wants to match Chinese levels of international importance, hence it is building a gigantic military machine which now includes nuclear arms. A nuclear submarine will not help India too much in a short engagement with Pakistan, which is what is most likely to happen next time war between the two country is sparked, but gives India a huge diplomatic weapon in international eyes (they're up in the big leagues now). However, the idea that India is not bothered about Pakistan except for terrorism is ridiculously naive. India's primary threat is still Pakistan, not China or anyone else. Their population may want to believe that they are capable of messing with China, but it's foolishness on their part and great propaganda on the military's part. Pakistan is still priority number one in Indian foreign policy, whether they man up to to this or not. And vice versa, India is priority number one on Pakistan's list, but is not the end of it. In fact, Pakistan has more threats to worry about than India does.

We Pakistanis, on the other hand, should not whine and groan over the accompolishments of the Indians, but rather keep our heads and continue to develop. India got to where it is today through the power of their population, and unbroken democracy. Pakistan must strive to reach similar levels of economic and social development before we can match their military levels. Consider that the USSR enjoyed many of the advantages over the US that India enjoys over the Pakistan, but eventually, through intelligence and consistency, the US prevailed. Of course, Pakistan is not the US, but then neither is India the USSR.

This will not 'spark' an arms race, it always existed, but it will put it into the next gear. By deploying a nuclear submarine, the responsibility for a nuclear arms race in the Indian ocean will be solely on India's head, there can be no question about it. Their war-mongers can be happy now, but history won't be so kind to them. India first tested the nuclear bomb, they accelerated the conventional arms race, they deployed the first nuclear submarine and so on. Not the ideal image for a "peace-loving nation simply defending itself".

 

[arihant]

than tell your bravest and well wisher ISI to destroy these terroists!

What you are talking about ? Why they want to destroy something which has been created by themselves.

 

[arihant]

this statement was for pakistan fellow.

because they believe ISI is their well-wisher.

Don't confuse the Pakistani fellows. ISI is their well wisher do so terrorist organizations.

If you keep Pakistani Fellows outside from this point, then ISI is fighting against org. like Taliban. So basically, its just big confusion, who supports whom.

 

[Super Falcon]

pakistan chief of naval staff right now meets with chinese foreign minister i hope they discuss this threat to both nations of indian nuclear submarine

 

[amarnath]

look... india can avoid rivalry with china if they wish too.. if china was your real enemy then they would have kicked your butt again when dailial lama and his terrorists groups were creating havoc in china.. but thats not the case.. they want china to be their enemy so that they can justify their billions of dollars of arms purchase... they can tell the west that they are counter balancing a communist state china.. while their intention is to keep south asia under their arms...
the real terrorists state is india.. terrorizing, Srilanka, bangladesh, nepal, pakistan, china and not to forget its own population such as muslims sikhs and Christians..

No way , China cannot afford to fight a nation like India,At this moment, Global economic crisis has been badly hit in china my friend. And they cannot terrorize India now, They can just threaten us by laying roads to pakistan and making pakistan a strategic partner, For them pakistan is not more than a suicide bomber. And Yes, China has base In Srilanka,china laying route to pakistan, why??? Just to terrorise the asian countries, China wants asia under there controll, India is the only powerful country in asia according to them, so they using cheap tactics against India with pakistan as there strategic asset. They are using you, which pakistan claims it as a pride.

 

[amarnath]

pakistan chief of naval staff right now meets with chinese foreign minister i hope they discuss this threat to both nations of indian nuclear submarine

Let them with pleasure..... .. Nothing much can be done anyway.

 

[SSGPA1]

If i am not wrong, India is the only country which has Nuke Sub in the Indian Ocean now. So by looking at the scenario I think US and China should be more concerned over the development. After all US and India had been competing in the Indian Ocean since decades and now Chinese influence there have worried India alot.

Excellent comment!

US will remain quiet till they get the MRCA deal and China is probably ahead in this race but they like to keep things folded. The way things are, China will probably have a nuclear sub perational before IN complete its tests.

I would like to point out the fact that this sub is operational not in the Indian Ocean yet. According to latest reports:

Naval officials said INS Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies) codenamed Advanced Technology Vessel(ATV) will undergo two years of sea trials in the Bay of Bengal after which they hope to see the submarine commissioned for full service.

"It is little optimistic only for one reasons because it the first of its class. In the first of the class there are a large number of checks to be carried out."

fullstory

So lets wait till it become fully operational, based on experiences from Arjun and the fighter aircraft for IAF, this sub will probably take around three to four years to become fully operational.

Secondly, Paksitan Navy shouldn't be much concern about it as Pakistan Navy has Augusta 90-B and the next sub induction will carry stealth attribute insha-Allah.

This means the only major difference will be speed (project at 30 knots when submerged) which will also become a non factor becuase the PN or the IN don't need to travel over a long distance to engage each other.

Last but not least, Arihant can stay much longer in water but that doesn't make any difference to PN because the war between Pakistan and India will not last more than three weeks at the latest (due to lack of resources on both ends). All new PN subs can stay submerged longer than that.

The capability which makes a huge difference will be to fire Nuclear armed missiles from under water. I am hoping that Pakistan Navy and the rest ofthe armed forces are already working on that. India is also working to achieve that capability.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Excellent comment!

US will remain quiet till they get the MRCA deal and China is probably ahead in this race but they like to keep things folded. The way things are, China will probably have a nuclear sub perational before IN complete its tests.

I would like to point out the fact that this sub is operational not in the Indian Ocean yet. According to latest reports:

Naval officials said INS Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies) codenamed Advanced Technology Vessel(ATV) will undergo two years of sea trials in the Bay of Bengal after which they hope to see the submarine commissioned for full service.

"It is little optimistic only for one reasons because it the first of its class. In the first of the class there are a large number of checks to be carried out."

fullstory

So lets wait till it become fully operational, based on experiences from Arjun and the fighter aircraft for IAF, this sub will probably take around three to four years to become fully operational.

Secondly, Paksitan Navy shouldn't be much concern about it as Pakistan Navy has Augusta 90-B and the next sub induction will carry stealth attribute insha-Allah.

This means the only major difference will be speed (project at 30 knots when submerged) which will also become a non factor becuase the PN or the IN don't need to travel over a long distance to engage each other.

Last but not least, Arihant can stay much longer in water but that doesn't make any difference to PN because the war between Pakistan and India will not last more than three weeks at the latest (due to lack of resources on both ends). All new PN subs can stay submerged longer than that.

The capability which makes a huge difference will be to fire Nuclear armed missiles from under water. I am hoping that Pakistan Navy and the rest ofthe armed forces are already working on that. India is also working to achieve that capability.

X-posting from the thread http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/30708-pakistan-possible-answer-against-india-neculear-submarine.html


I have a very simple exercise for those who think that a conventional diesel electric sub can take out the Indian SSBN. Here it goes-

Estimate the shortest distance between any Pakistani Naval base and the Indian Vizag port in our east coast where our SSBN will be stationed. Then calculate the total time that any PN conventional sub (include the U214 if you like) would take to reach anywhere close to this port/base to fire its longest range torpedo, assuming that it travels at its fastest submerged speed. Now, compare the required time and the endurance of your subs. You will be in for a big shock!

My post is not meant to discredit PN or the diligence of the Pakistani armed forces and its people to match up to the Indian military. But the fact is that a nuclear powered SSBN can only be taken out with a nuclear powered attack sub, which Pakistan doesn't possess at the moment!

So, to address the theme of the thread, I would say that Pakistan will have to acquire/build a nuclear powered attack sub, if it wishes to take out the Indian nuclear powered SSBN.

Regards

 

[SSGPA1]

So, to address the theme of the thread, I would say that Pakistan will have to acquire/build a nuclear powered attack sub, if it wishes to take out the Indian nuclear powered SSBN.

I never said that PN diesel sub will take out an IN nuclear powered sub.

Pakistan and has limited number of subs and the primary purpose of submarines in both navies is to attack ships of other navy.

If Pakistan need to take out the port for these subs then probably Pakistan will go with a long range missile. Subs can be attacked with the anti sub missiles fired from helis and jets.

 

[IceCold]

" Trigger" an arms race ?

When did it end ? Haven't we been racing since '47 ?

you are right actually however literal meaning of triggering means to enhance it or take it to a next level in terms of an arms race however why are you just nitpicking here on words. Such statements are meant for political purpose or public consumption and after that all goes back to normal.
As far as we are concerned well dont expect much to happen interms of replying, the reason i dont need to spell out for you after all i am sure you are smarter then a fifth grade. Just kidding.

 

[IceCold]

If i am not wrong, India is the only country which has Nuke Sub in the Indian Ocean now. So by looking at the scenario I think US and China should be more concerned over the development. After all US and India had been competing in the Indian Ocean since decades and now Chinese influence there have worried India alot.

Hey when did u get back. Anyways welcome back and nice to have you around.

 

[Jako]

China has operational n-subs(i think about 10),on the loose........how can you say that they dont use them to patrol in indian ocean,as they can stay submerged for months......infact they have n-subs in indian ocean surely........usa is not a problem here

 

[jeypore]

If i am not wrong, India is the only country which has Nuke Sub in the Indian Ocean now. So by looking at the scenario I think US and China should be more concerned over the development. After all US and India had been competing in the Indian Ocean since decades and now Chinese influence there have worried India alot.

Welcome back Jana!!

By the way third eye is right, when did any form of rivalry stopped. India has it poragative to control and patrol the Indian ocean and likewise China and US can try to do the same, if they have the capabilities. Currently I can see that US does have the capabilities to take over, but they would not because of close relationship building is in progress by the US.

P.s. Interms of Pakistan, they just have to catch-up now.