India’s ‘K-15 Black Project’ : Pakistani perspective

[karan21]

Paan Singh JI,

No it can not cover the whole of Pakistan.

4-5 of them will cover entire Paksitan.

 

[Desert Fox]

SLCM from pak side is also expected to join the picture within few years

SLCM?? Why not SLBM??? A SLBM packs a much larger punch since it can carry a greater payload, not to mention its more difficult to shoot down.

 

[Nassr]

SLCM?? Why not SLBM??? A SLBM packs a much larger punch since it can carry a greater payload, not to mention its more difficult to shoot down.

Currently, the Indians don't have sub which can fire a ballistic missile - if as some one called it, the Khokha Arihant, is taken as one, it will take long time for it to be operational. But they are indeed making efforts.

Pakistan needs a sub which can fire ballistic missiles. It'll Inshaallah be there in due course.

4-5 of them will cover entire Paksitan.

Sir, these will have to be deployed out of long range area weapon's reach and will therefor leave enough space for missiles to be fired. Also, these will be one of the first targets for cruise, air and whatever one can muster.

 

[longewala]

There is no pakistani "perspective" to K-15, or most of the Indian nuclear triad, or even the higher end air force assets (Su-30, rafale). It is obvious these are meant to counter Nuclear-armed China which is fast developing its military infrastructure in Tibet.

All these attempts to imagine that somehow, pakistan is the intended target of therse weapons, is just delusional thinking on the part of pakistanis who still imagine they can somehow compete with an India which is 10 times bigger in terms of GDP. Even without nuclear weapons, India could have destroyed Pakistan anytime during the 1970s. Even now, all we need to deter Pakistan is a basic level of nuclear weapons and a moderate sized armour and air force.

I am surprised people here even bother to respond to statements about "Hindu" India - which has has a Sikh prime minister, a muslim ex-president who developed our space and nuclear technology, a Sikh Army chief, leading business leaders who are Parsi and two muslims among the longest serving cricket captains in india history. Ironically, even shia and Ahmadis are treated better and are safer in India than "muslim" Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

There is no pakistani "perspective" to K-15, or most of the Indian nuclear triad, or even the higher end air force assets (Su-30, rafale). It is obvious these are meant to counter Nuclear-armed China which is fast developing its military infrastructure in Tibet.

All these attempts to imagine that somehow, pakistan is the intended target of therse weapons, is just delusional thinking on the part of pakistanis who still imagine they can somehow compete with an India which is 10 times bigger in terms of GDP. Even without nuclear weapons, India could have destroyed Pakistan anytime during the 1970s. Even now, all we need to deter Pakistan is a basic level of nuclear weapons and a moderate sized armour and air force.

I am surprised people here even bother to respond to statements about "Hindu" India - which has has a Sikh prime minister, a muslim ex-president who developed our space and nuclear technology, a Sikh Army chief, leading business leaders who are Parsi and two muslims among the longest serving cricket captains in india history. Ironically, even shia and Ahmadis are treated better and are safer in India than "muslim" Pakistan.

welcome!!..........

 

[Kompromat]

Where is the Pakistani perspective ?

 

[Contrarian]

well for some years indian have been procuring well beyond their defence needs so therefore Pakistan has its own contingencies in place -- mostly defensive in nature as we are not having hegemonic ambitions

Frankly mate.Pakistan doesn't even have the resources to do so either. So intentions only come into play when you have the capability. As of now and for the foreseeable future..Pakistan will not have the ability to make or procure weapons of that magnitude.

So talk about hegemonistic ambitions or not when you have the capability to be become hegemonistic.

 

[Jinx1]

There is no pakistani "perspective" to K-15, or most of the Indian nuclear triad, or even the higher end air force assets (Su-30, rafale). It is obvious these are meant to counter Nuclear-armed China which is fast developing its military infrastructure in Tibet.

All these attempts to imagine that somehow, pakistan is the intended target of therse weapons, is just delusional thinking on the part of pakistanis who still imagine they can somehow compete with an India which is 10 times bigger in terms of GDP. Even without nuclear weapons, India could have destroyed Pakistan anytime during the 1970s. Even now, all we need to deter Pakistan is a basic level of nuclear weapons and a moderate sized armour and air force.

I am surprised people here even bother to respond to statements about "Hindu" India - which has has a Sikh prime minister, a muslim ex-president who developed our space and nuclear technology, a Sikh Army chief, leading business leaders who are Parsi and two muslims among the longest serving cricket captains in india history. Ironically, even shia and Ahmadis are treated better and are safer in India than "muslim" Pakistan.

@Nassr in his earlier post has amply described the K-15 and the Khokha Arihant (hehe) perspective. As you can't answer without sufficient knowledge, you start the rants. We are 10 times bigger than Pakistan, 100 times fatter economy, which incidentally has sunk to 5.3, 1000 times stronger armed forces for which Indian government may not have enough money to pay for the kind of big ticket things you are wishing for and offcourse you can take care of a nuclear armed Pakistan in a jiffy. You are also preparing to fight China also with SU-30s, Khokha Arihants, Karaye ki nuclear sub from Russia, who have not allowed you to use it in any war without getting their sanction.

What if you have to fight both Pakistan and China together in a two front war. Do you think, in any future war with China, Pakistan will do what it did in 1962. Think again before you rant again.

 

[MilSpec]

well for some years indian have been procuring well beyond their defence needs so therefore Pakistan has its own contingencies in place -- mostly defensive in nature as we are not having hegemonic ambitions

Please do enlighten us about our ;"defense needs"? and how have reached beyond it. On contrary, we have spent half of what is needed to counter the threat and it's proxy!

 

[Nothing]

There is no pakistani "perspective" to K-15, or most of the Indian nuclear triad, or even the higher end air force assets (Su-30, rafale). It is obvious these are meant to counter Nuclear-armed China which is fast developing its military infrastructure in Tibet.

All these attempts to imagine that somehow, pakistan is the intended target of therse weapons, is just delusional thinking on the part of pakistanis who still imagine they can somehow compete with an India which is 10 times bigger in terms of GDP. Even without nuclear weapons, India could have destroyed Pakistan anytime during the 1970s. Even now, all we need to deter Pakistan is a basic level of nuclear weapons and a moderate sized armour and air force.

I am surprised people here even bother to respond to statements about "Hindu" India - which has has a Sikh prime minister, a muslim ex-president who developed our space and nuclear technology, a Sikh Army chief, leading business leaders who are Parsi and two muslims among the longest serving cricket captains in india history. Ironically, even shia and Ahmadis are treated better and are safer in India than "muslim" Pakistan.

Big band entry bro... welcome

 

[Contrarian]

Presently, neither India, nor Pakistan possess an effective incoming missile identification and Ballistic Missile Defence capability, irrespective of Indian claims (a couple of Israeli radars won’t make much difference – the one system which DRDO has opened to reverse engineer, I hear they don’t know how to re-assemble it).
ke.

There is already a Indian 'derivative' of green pine. ofcourse that derivative also incorporated a Lot of Israeli direct inputs and technology. Nonetheless it is there and the technology is being absorbed and modified to suit the particular needs of India.

The point is that ABM just like Sam was at one point of time being developed. and with increasing development costs will plummet. in maybe 20 years time ABM will have evolved like SAM to assure a 99% success ratio and maybe with multiple levels even 100%. Just like sending 10 planes today is not enough to bomb Delhi via aircraft similarly decades from now 20 missiles even with mirv might not be sufficient to assure a bm to destroy Delhi.

Only those countries which are investing in this key technology now will be in a position to rule and sell their products then. and others would have to buy. and think of the costs increase it would cost to Pakista to guarantee the destruction of the same new Delhi that they could earlier achieve at 1/20th cost with certainty.

Apart from that when this tech matures and is proven effective it might also give the military and policy makers of India certain level of safety against nuclear blackmail and allow them space to undertake operations they might otherwise not have had the confidences to take.

This tech will surely evolve and will raise costs for our enemies while saving costs at home due to being developed at home...if drdo starts now.

@Nassr in his earlier post has amply described the K-15 and the Khokha Arihant (hehe) perspective. As you can't answer without sufficient knowledge, you start the rants. We are 10 times bigger than Pakistan, 100 times fatter economy, which incidentally has sunk to 5.3, 1000 times stronger armed forces for which Indian government may not have enough money to pay for the kind of big ticket things you are wishing for and offcourse you can take care of a nuclear armed Pakistan in a jiffy. You are also preparing to fight China also with SU-30s, Khokha Arihants, Karaye ki nuclear sub from Russia, who have not allowed you to use it in any war without getting their sanction.

What if you have to fight both Pakistan and China together in a two front war. Do you think, in any future with China, Pakistan will do what it did in 1962. Think again before you rant again.

Assuming you have read history you would know that Pakistan didn't attack in 1962 not out of choice but out of compulsion..they weren't prepared.

By the time they got prepared they still thought they could take advantage as India had just lost a war. unfortunately they could not gain Kashmir from that effort..it waslater than what was needed.

 

[Jinx1]

There is already a Indian 'derivative' of green pine. ofcourse that derivative also incorporated a Lot of Israeli direct inputs and technology. Nonetheless it is there and the technology is being absorbed and modified to suit the particular needs of India.

The point is that ABM just like Sam was at one point of time being developed. and with increasing development costs will plummet. in maybe 20 years time ABM will have evolved like SAM to assure a 99% success ratio and maybe with multiple levels even 100%. Just like sending 10 planes today is not enough to bomb Delhi via aircraft similarly decades from now 20 missiles even with mirv might not be sufficient to assure a bm to destroy Delhi.

Only those countries which are investing in this key technology now will be in a position to rule and sell their products then. and others would have to buy. and think of the costs increase it would cost to Pakista to guarantee the destruction of the same new Delhi that they could earlier achieve at 1/20th cost with certainty.

Apart from that when this tech matures and is proven effective it might also give the military and policy makers of India certain level of safety against nuclear blackmail and allow them space to undertake operations they might otherwise not have had the confidences to take.

This tech will surely evolve and will raise costs for our enemies while saving costs at home due to being developed at home...if drdo starts now.



Assuming you have read history you would know that Pakistan didn't attack in 1962 not out of choice but out of compulsion..they weren't prepared.

By the time they got prepared they still thought they could take advantage as India had just lost a war. unfortunately they could not gain Kashmir from that effort..it waslater than what was needed.

Sir,

I agree with you 100%. You see, as Nassr explained, and for me also after reading his explanation, I stand more educated, currently, India is working on only one type of defence i.e. Terminal Defence with regard to overall BMD capability. You have tested a missile on certain occasions, you acquired 2-3 green pines and are developing your own, based on what it taught you. You are at the initial stage of testing. You certainly will improve a lot over a period of time - no doubt.

But there is one thing that you fail to take notice of is the fact that there is a dialectic which is functioning here. The adversary is not in a stand-still mode. As you advance, the other guys are also going to leap-frog. Therefore, the advancements will be met by advancements as well as counter measures and your advantages may not remain as advantages when they are ready. This is where, the vast US Defence Industry also basis its products sale on. It is indeed a rat race. When you say, Pakistan has no or less money, there are those who will sell the same or equivalent stuff much cheaper to us and then you would want more and more.

India is boxed in between China and Pakistan. To dissipate Indian strength, China will always support Pakistan and Pakistan will always remain happy. Therefore, there obviously is much more to it than the eye can meet.

And you say that like 62, Pakistan won't react in case of your war with China. I think both have learnt their lessons. It won't be a repeat of 62 both for China and Pakistan.

There is already a Indian 'derivative' of green pine. ofcourse that derivative also incorporated a Lot of Israeli direct inputs and technology. Nonetheless it is there and the technology is being absorbed and modified to suit the particular needs of India.

The point is that ABM just like Sam was at one point of time being developed. and with increasing development costs will plummet. in maybe 20 years time ABM will have evolved like SAM to assure a 99% success ratio and maybe with multiple levels even 100%. Just like sending 10 planes today is not enough to bomb Delhi via aircraft similarly decades from now 20 missiles even with mirv might not be sufficient to assure a bm to destroy Delhi.

Only those countries which are investing in this key technology now will be in a position to rule and sell their products then. and others would have to buy. and think of the costs increase it would cost to Pakista to guarantee the destruction of the same new Delhi that they could earlier achieve at 1/20th cost with certainty.

Apart from that when this tech matures and is proven effective it might also give the military and policy makers of India certain level of safety against nuclear blackmail and allow them space to undertake operations they might otherwise not have had the confidences to take.

This tech will surely evolve and will raise costs for our enemies while saving costs at home due to being developed at home...if drdo starts now.



Assuming you have read history you would know that Pakistan didn't attack in 1962 not out of choice but out of compulsion..they weren't prepared.

By the time they got prepared they still thought they could take advantage as India had just lost a war. unfortunately they could not gain Kashmir from that effort..it waslater than what was needed.

Sir,

I agree with you 100%. You see, as Nassr explained, and for me also after reading his explanation, I stand more educated, currently, India is working on only one type of defence i.e. Terminal Defence with regard to overall BMD capability. You have tested a missile on certain occasions, you acquired 2-3 green pines and are developing your own, based on what it taught you. You are at the initial stage of testing. You certainly will improve a lot over a period of time - no doubt.

But there is one thing that you fail to take notice of is the fact that there is a dialectic which is functioning here. The adversary is not in a stand-still mode. As you advance, the other guys are also going to leap-frog. Therefore, the advancements will be met by advancements as well as counter measures and your advantages may not remain as advantages when they are ready. This is where, the vast US Defence Industry also basis its products sale on. It is indeed a rat race. When you say, Pakistan has no or less money, there are those who will sell the same or equivalent stuff much cheaper to us and then you would want more and more.

India is boxed in between China and Pakistan. To dissipate Indian strength, China will always support Pakistan and Pakistan will always remain happy. Therefore, there obviously is much more to it than the eye can meet.

And you say that like 62, Pakistan won't react in case of your war with China. I think both have learnt their lessons. It won't be a repeat of 62 both for China and Pakistan.

 

[karan21]

Sir,

I agree with you 100%. You see, as Nassr explained, and for me also after reading his explanation, I stand more educated, currently, India is working on only one type of defence i.e. Terminal Defence with regard to overall BMD capability. You have tested a missile on certain occasions, you acquired 2-3 green pines and are developing your own, based on what it taught you. You are at the initial stage of testing. You certainly will improve a lot over a period of time - no doubt.

But there is one thing that you fail to take notice of is the fact that there is a dialectic which is functioning here. The adversary is not in a stand-still mode. As you advance, the other guys are also going to leap-frog. Therefore, the advancements will be met by advancements as well as counter measures and your advantages may not remain as advantages when they are ready. This is where, the vast US Defence Industry also basis its products sale on. It is indeed a rat race. When you say, Pakistan has no or less money, there are those who will sell the same or equivalent stuff much cheaper to us and then you would want more and more.

India is boxed in between China and Pakistan. To dissipate Indian strength, China will always support Pakistan and Pakistan will always remain happy. Therefore, there obviously is much more to it than the eye can meet.

And you say that like 62, Pakistan won't react in case of your war with China. I think both have learnt their lessons. It won't be a repeat of 62 both for China and Pakistan.



Sir,

I agree with you 100%. You see, as Nassr explained, and for me also after reading his explanation, I stand more educated, currently, India is working on only one type of defence i.e. Terminal Defence with regard to overall BMD capability. You have tested a missile on certain occasions, you acquired 2-3 green pines and are developing your own, based on what it taught you. You are at the initial stage of testing. You certainly will improve a lot over a period of time - no doubt.

But there is one thing that you fail to take notice of is the fact that there is a dialectic which is functioning here. The adversary is not in a stand-still mode. As you advance, the other guys are also going to leap-frog. Therefore, the advancements will be met by advancements as well as counter measures and your advantages may not remain as advantages when they are ready. This is where, the vast US Defence Industry also basis its products sale on. It is indeed a rat race. When you say, Pakistan has no or less money, there are those who will sell the same or equivalent stuff much cheaper to us and then you would want more and more.

India is boxed in between China and Pakistan. To dissipate Indian strength, China will always support Pakistan and Pakistan will always remain happy. Therefore, there obviously is much more to it than the eye can meet.

And you say that like 62, Pakistan won't react in case of your war with China. I think both have learnt their lessons. It won't be a repeat of 62 both for China and Pakistan.

Yes I agree that Pakistan and India are both advancing. But recently ur medis and planners are saying that india is spending on defence way more than its needs. Well I dont think so.
The reason they say that is that Pakistan can only compete with India to a certain extent and that extent has peaked. India is not the same it was in early 2000. In just last 5 yrs we have built our own combat helis, aesa radars, fighter jet, all major avionics, nuclear sub, slbm, abm and every kind of missile possible. Recently we also produced our own atrillery gun.
India now builds its own aesa radars and is its own electronic warfare system. cad, awacs, arudhra and tejas radar are all now using Indian built and designed radars.

India learnt all this by R&D, paying bribes for secret techs, copying, cheating etc etc. We used every way possible to be self sufficient. In 10 yrs from now India will be much much more advanced in manufacturing and desgning weapons.

On the other hand Pakistan is yet to produce a 1980 s first gen radar leave an aesa radar. You cant call buying from china advancement.

If you dont learn to build it on your own, in the long run will be left decades behind.

 

[Rig Vedic]

On the other hand Pakistan is yet to produce a 1980 s first gen radar leave an aesa radar. You cant call buying from china advancement.

But if their needs are met by China then they don't need to make their own stuff ...

 

[gslv mk3]

Paan Singh JI,

No it can not cover the whole of Pakistan.

New MFCR is being developed which have a range of 1500 km....might be used for ASAT test too