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India rejects Balochistan charge, says no proof given

^ Not "facts" but rather what GoI would like people to believe.

You may have heard about Christine Fair btw? Not an unnamed source there.

Btw, unnamed CIA sources that accuse ISI of supporting Taliban are obviously not suggesting any conspiracy theory but are reliable sources. Right? :azn::azn:
 
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^^ Unnamed sources.. conspiracy theories ... nonsense galore.. What else to expect from Pakistani media on these issues...

Check the video of the Q&A from today's conference... you will get your facts

do u really expected Krishna to admit it on TV ... :rofl:
 
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do u really expected Krishna to admit it on TV ... :rofl:

That's precisely the point and it's such a basic and diplomacy 101 point yet seems to be lost on Indians here. :hitwall::hitwall: It's not really surprising given how simplistic and naive ways of thinking are prominent among Indians.

A state (at least the Indian and western states) can never lie, a state can never hide information, interests don't play a part in this world, conspiracy theories are always false (despite evidence to contrary), and the list of childish/armchair expert/keyboard warrior type of thinking is never ending. :hitwall::hitwall: :rofl:
 
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Anti-Baloch clique?

By: Mir Mohammad Ali Talpur
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The Khan affirmed his intention to build Balochistan as a prosperous sovereign country in which the Baloch could retain their identity and live in accordance with their traditions and establish relations through treaties of friendship with neighbouring states

The secret, if it ever was, is eventually
out that there is in fact an anti-Baloch clique with its own agenda and powerful enough to threaten even the highest office of the land. No, this not the surmise of a pro-Baloch columnist but comes direct from the horse’s mouth, well at least a horse lover’s mouth: yes, the president himself.

At the ground breaking ceremony of the Winder Dam project he said that espousal of the rights of Balochistan by him had angered “certain elements” and they were now out to remove him; some journalists termed these elements as the ‘anti Baloch clique’. He said, “The Aghaz-e-Huqooq-i-Balochistan package is the right of the people of Balochistan and we have to implement it. But they do not want this to happen. Therefore, they want to remove me.” So now we know that this powerful clique does not even tolerate an ineffective and largely useless Balochistan package.

The president, as constrained and curbed as his authority and movement may be, still has the entire resources of the state at his disposal to learn and be informed about matters that common citizens or for that matter out-of-power politicians do not even get a whiff of. With his wherewithal he certainly knows that this anti-Baloch clique has the clout to threaten his tenure if he is overtly pro-Baloch or even seems to be patronising them.

This clique definitely has to be anti-democratic and paranoid as who else would remove an elected head of state simply for perceived misdeeds; because certainly the president has done nothing to curb the injustices against the Baloch or redress their grievances in the nearly two years that his party has been in power. Empty apologies do nothing to heal grievous wounds.

This clique certainly has not come into being all of a sudden or only after Zardari became the president. It must have existed long before and must be having a few achievements to its credit. It must also have the power to even threaten someone who has the entire — maybe minus that certain clique — state machinery at his disposal. Presumably this ‘clique’ is as powerful as the rest of the state apparatus. Little wonder that people keep disappearing without a trace and some turning up dead as the Baloch leaders did in Turbat.

Let us dispassionately examine the evidence if there really exists an anti-Baloch clique or it is just a figment of the imagination of a beleaguered president. To do this we will have to go way back to 1947.

In June 1947, the British government announced plans for the partition of India. The fate of British Afghanistan and the Baloch Tribal Areas, which included the Marri-Bugti, Khetran and Baloch Tribal Areas of Dera Ghazi Khan, was to be decided by a referendum. It was decided to hold a jirga on June 30th but was deviously held on the 29th without informing all the members. With this referendum as its basis, British Balochistan, including the leased and tribal areas that were constitutionally part of the Khanate were quite illegally acceded to Pakistan on August 15, 1947.

It is interesting to note that after partition the chiefs of Derajat were given the choice to relinquish their privileges by joining Balochistan or retain them by joining Punjab. This British Administered Baloch area of DG Khan was misappropriated by Punjab in 1950. The Tumandars signed the agreement under threat of forsaking their large land holdings if they did not opt for Punjab. A monument to that injustice stands at Fort Munro, 6,470 feet above sea level.

On August 4, 1947, a tripartite agreement was signed between Pakistan, the British and Balochistan, called The Standstill Agreement, in which the sovereign status of Balochistan was accepted. The Khan declared Balochistan independent on August 11, 1947, three days before the independence of Pakistan. The Khan affirmed his intention to build Balochistan as a prosperous sovereign country in which the Baloch could retain their identity, live in accordance with their traditions and establish relations through treaties of friendship with the neighbouring states of Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan as well as with India and the outside world.

Soon after independence, elections were held to the Diwan, Balochistan’s bi-cameral legislature, and a period of tranquillity and peace was ensured in the country. The Assembly held sessions in September and December 1947 and most favoured alliance and not accession with Pakistan. On December 14, 1947, Ghaus Baksh Bizenjo made a landmark speech and it is still considered as a valid argument for the independence of Balochistan.

He said, “We have a distinct civilisation and a separate culture like that of Iran and Afghanistan. We are Muslims but it is not necessary that by virtue of being Muslims we should lose our freedom and merge with others. If the mere fact that we are Muslims requires us to join Pakistan, then Afghanistan and Iran, both Muslim countries, should also amalgamate with Pakistan.

“We were never a part of India before the British rule. Pakistan’s unpleasant and loathsome desire that our national homeland, Balochistan should merge with it is impossible to consider. We are ready to have friendship with that country on the basis of sovereign equality but by no means ready to merge with Pakistan. We can survive without Pakistan. But the question is, what would Pakistan be without us?

“I do not propose to create hurdles for the newly created Pakistan in the matters of defence and external communication. But we want an honourable relationship, not a humiliating one. If Pakistan wants to treat us as a sovereign people, we are ready to extend the hand of friendship and cooperation. If Pakistan does not agree to do so, flying in the face of democratic principles, such an attitude will be totally unacceptable to us, and if we are forced to accept this fate then every Baloch son will sacrifice his life in defence of his national freedom.”

His speech moved the Baloch and strengthened their desire for independence and their will to maintain their new-found independence. But in the meantime Pakistan began to pressurise the newly independent Kalat state to join Pakistan and an uneasy calm appeared in relations between Kalat and Pakistan. Talks between Pakistan and Kalat dragged on. Pakistan continued to harass the Khan and Baloch state machinery on various pretexts and was engaged in conspiracies and underhand tactics to compel the Khan to join Pakistan.

When Pakistan was convinced that the Khan would not accede, separate instruments of accession by the states of Lasbela and Kharan, which were feudatories of the Khan, and of Makran, which was never more than a district of the state of Kalat, were announced on March 18. Accession of Makran, Kharan and Lasbela robbed Kalat of more than half its territory and its access to the sea.

The following day the Khan of Kalat issued a statement refusing to believe that Pakistan as a champion of Muslim rights in the world would infringe upon the rights of small Muslim neighbours, pointing out that Makran as a district of Kalat had no separate status and that the foreign policy of Lasbela and Kharan was placed under Kalat by the Standstill Agreement.

On March 26, 1948, the Pakistan Army was ordered to move into the Baloch coastal region of Pasni, Jiwani and Turbat. This was the first act of aggression prior to the march on Kalat by a Pakistani military detachment on April 1, 1948. The Khan capitulated on March 27 after the army moved into the coastal region and it was announced in Karachi that the Khan of Kalat has agreed to merge his state with Pakistan. Under the Constitution of Kalat, the Khan was not authorised to take such a basic decision. The Balochistan Assembly had already rejected any suggestion of forfeiting the independence of Balochistan on any pretext. The sovereign Baloch state after British withdrawal from India lasted only 227 days.

The evidence certainly leads one to conclude that this clique has had the influence and power to thwart the Baloch people’s rightful struggle to be independent as they were for 227 days after partition and use their resources without even partly sharing with them.

(To be continued)

Mir Mohammad Ali Talpur has an association with the Baloch rights movement going back to the early 1970s. He can be contacted at mmatalpur@gmail.com
 
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^ Not "facts" but rather what GoI would like people to believe.

You may have heard about Christine Fair btw? Not an unnamed source there.

Btw, unnamed CIA sources that accuse ISI of supporting Taliban are obviously not suggesting any conspiracy theory but are reliable sources. Right? :azn::azn:

par chacha yeah batao aap ka FM nai moh main dahi kyp jama li thi? Yadi evidence diya tha to bolte na.

Ham to dossier pai dossier diye ja rahe hain. Pure band baje kai sath. Aur aap apne ghar main bhi chup baithe ho? Kyo Kyo?

Diplomaccy 101 is "Don't tell a lie" You can spin it, cook it whatever you want to do, but don't lie. It will make you look like fool.
Your FM would have said that we have shared some thing with GOI and than we can debate that whether it was evidence or not, whether its credible or not.
What Indian FM said that nothing is shared with us. Period.
 
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Indian Intervention in Balochistan Proved
MTT - Pakistan - Brahmdagh Bugti alleged for receiving military aid from India for terrorism in Balochistan.
Although Pakistan’s civil and military leadership has repeatedly stated that Indian secret agency, RAW supports separatism in the province of Balochistan, and its evidence will be shown to the western countries at the right occasion, yet Indian intervention in Balochistan is not confined to verbal statements, it has in fact proved in light of the following developments.

In the recent past, the Institute of Defence Studies and Analysis (IDSA), New Delhi organised a seminar titled: South Asia 2020 in connection with Balochistan. In their speeches, various scholars and thinktanks maligned Pakistan in one or the other way.

Besides the seminar, on November 5, 2009 a secret conference titled: “Pakistan is Problem in Balochistan” was organised by the Observer Research Foundation (ORF) in New Delhi. It was headed by the former secretary of RAW and Indian former chief of army staff. In that conference, high ranking selective officials, journalists and three Baloch leaders, namely, Dr Wahid Baloch, Khan of Kalat and Munir Mengal participated.

The speech of Dr. Wahid Baloch, General Secretary of the American Friends Balohistan (AFOB) is of special attention. He distorted the history by pointing out that in 1948, Balochistan was forcibly occupied by Pakistani armed forces because Nawab of Kalat had refused to abide by the demands of Muhammad Ali Jinah.

It is well-known fact that the partition of India was made on the basis of religious demographics that led to the creation of Pakistan. The people of Balochistan, overwhelmingly voted to join Pakistan in a referendum that was held on June 30, 1947. The Indian Independence Act, 1947 allowed the independent states to join either India or Pakistan. The Khan of Kalat acceded to Pakistan on March 27, 1948 as a result of the free will of the Muslims of the province.

While vocally raising false allegations in line of the Indian conspiracy against the federation Pakistan, Dr. Wahid Baloch explained, “Balochistan still remains under the occupation of Pakistan and the international community should interfere in preventing atrocities on the Baloch people, being committed by Pak Army and ISI. Dr. Wahid also indicated his misperceptions that several Baloch leaders, engineers and doctors were kidnapped, torture and killed ruthlessly through Pakistan’s state terrorism.”

In fact, the secret conference organised by the Indian officials itself and participation of the Baloch leaders including anti-Pakistan elements proves that Indian RAW is behind all the events like hostage-takings, sectarian violence, targeted killings of the high profile leaders and other subversive acts being committed in Balochistan. Besides, people of Balochistan enjoy equal rights and opportunities like the people of other provinces of Pakistan. Meanwhile, on Dec 12, 2009, the signing ceremony of the National Finance Commission (NFC) Award was held in the port city of Gawadar. In this regard, Punjab province has shown much flexibility as a good gesture of sacrifice especially for Balochistan. So it is wrong to say that Balochistan is under occupation.

While favouring the Sardari system (Fedual lords), Dr. Wahid maintained that Balochistan is a tribal society which follows the directions of their tribal chiefs. In this way, he not only justified support for the Baloch Sardars but also for Khan of Kalat as they have been leading separatism in the province. As a matter of fact, the unrest actually started in Balochistan when various projects were undertaken by the previous government to develop the backward regions of the province. The sole aim was to eliminate frustration among the people by providing infrastructure and employment opportunities. The Baloch Sardars who had been backed by India and other external powers started opposing all the developmental projects. These Sardars who were running their own private jails and ‘farrari camps’ resisted the government plans as they did not want to give up the old system of feudal lords. It was Pak Army which occupied private jails and farrari camps and thus set free several innocent people.

Dr. Wahid accused in the sense of foreign propaganda campaign against Islamabad that Quetta Shura and Taliban leaders have taken shelter in the capital of Balochistan with the help of Pakistan.

In reality, Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA) which has been fighting for secession of the province get logistic support from India, while another CIA and Indian-supported separatist group, Jundollah (God’s soldiers) is also working against the cordial relationship of Pakistan with China and Iran. In the past few years, their militants with the cooperation of foreign agents kidnapped and killed many Chinese and Iranian nationals in Pakistan, while committing other subversive acts in the province.

While impressing New Delhi, Wahid Baloch said, “We are a secular nation and not Islamist or extremist…our secular culture is under attack by Pakistan and Iran for which we needs your help. He requested, “We also need your help for newly established council of Balochistan so that we can established its offices all over the world.”

Dr. Wahid read out a message of Balochs to the audience, appealing the Indian government “to take a bold step in order to stand up against the tyranny and state terrorism of Pakistan inside Balochistan.” He also appealed to the Indian high officials to raise the question of Balochistan on all international forums and the UN bodies. Concluding his anti-Pakistan speech, Wahid Baloch pointed out that the ultimate goal of Baloch struggle was to seek a greater Balochistan comprising territory on either side of the Goldsmith line in Pakistan as well as Iran.

Indian officials and RAW ex-officers in connivance with the participating Baloch leaders and friends also decided to continue the process and to establish some new organization which they decided before conducting the next meeting. Besides, Khan of Kalat expressed similar thoughts like Dr Wahid, indicating that the meeting has been a source of good interaction with the Indians, and they will use every source so as to get support for their struggle of independence.

Indian involvement in Balochistan plot could also be judged from the fact the Munir Mengal who repeated the thoughts of Dr. Wahid in the meeting held with the faculty of IDSA which assured him that India fully backs Baloch struggle and will definitely undertake necessary steps for making the same a success. It also pledged that all future activities of Baloch movement like guidance and help will be coordinated by a US team under the sponsorship of IDSA. Besides Munir Mengal also gave a presentation at ORF in which he also misinterpreted the economic aspects of Gawader Port as a threat to international community, opposing proposed China’s naval base at Gawader.

America which signed a nuclear deal with India in 2008, intends to make India a mini-super power of Asia by containing China and destablising Pakistan as well as Iran. Balochistan where China has invested billion of dollars to develop Gawadar seaport irritates both Washington and New Delhi.

Nevertheless, finally, Dr Wahid, Munir Mengal and Khalat remarked that their visit was very successful. They also met Indian deputy minister and other officials who told them that this is ever first meeting of its kind and things will further improve by the next such meeting. They also assured to the Baloch leaders that Baloch movement has not gain the momentum so far as expected, therefore, they could not support them openly—however, covert support will continue. While encouraging Baloch ledears to continue their struggle with full zeal and enthusiasm, the Indian officials paid 25000 dollars to each Baloch leader, assuring them more positive response by the next secret meeting to be held in February 2010.

Meanwhile on November 21, 2009, with the consent of the Baloch national leader Mir Hyrbyair Marri, Laurie Deamer who is active member of the Independence American Friends of Balochistan read out the resolution in the first international conference at the Nation Press Club in Washington DC. The resolution also raised same allegations in connection with Pak Army and state terrorism by implicating Islamabad and Tehran, emphasizing the necessity of an independent Balochistan.

Nonetheless, while taking the breaking of Pakistan as inevitable and in the interests of the international community, especially the Baloch people and the United States, the conference called upon the US government and its affiliated departments to talk directly with Baloch independence, sending American leaders in Balochistan and abroad.

No doubt that after these conferences and secret meetings among the Indian officials, foreign agents and Baloch leaders, particularly Indian intervention in Balochistan has been proved.

Sajjad Shaukat writes on international affairs and is author of the book: US vs Islamic Militants, Invisible Balance of Power: Dangerous Shift in International Relations.
Indian Intervention in Balochistan Proved
 
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do u really expected Krishna to admit it on TV ... :rofl:

where else would you want him to admit that Pakistan has given India proofs of its involvement in Balochistan ?? Its on the TV itself he said India has given proof of 26/11 to Pakistan..Pakistani ministers did not deny it like India.
 
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par chacha yeah batao aap ka FM nai moh main dahi kyp jama li thi? Yadi evidence diya tha to bolte na.

Ham to dossier pai dossier diye ja rahe hain. Pure band baje kai sath. Aur aap apne ghar main bhi chup baithe ho? Kyo Kyo?

Diplomaccy 101 is "Don't tell a lie" You can spin it, cook it whatever you want to do, but don't lie. It will make you look like fool.
Your FM would have said that we have shared some thing with GOI and than we can debate that whether it was evidence or not, whether its credible or not.
What Indian FM said that nothing is shared with us. Period.
Foreign minister qureshi is bought off with loads of money by GOI.he is RAW agent in pakistan govt.
 
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par chacha yeah batao aap ka FM nai moh main dahi kyp jama li thi? Yadi evidence diya tha to bolte na.

Ham to dossier pai dossier diye ja rahe hain. Pure band baje kai sath. Aur aap apne ghar main bhi chup baithe ho? Kyo Kyo?

I talked about this before. This can mean more than just simplistic assumptions that you're making.

Diplomaccy 101 is "Don't tell a lie" You can spin it, cook it whatever you want to do, but don't lie. It will make you look like fool.
Your FM would have said that we have shared some thing with GOI and than we can debate that whether it was evidence or not, whether its credible or not.
What Indian FM said that nothing is shared with us. Period.

And that is completely incorrect. You lie if it's in your interests to do that. What Krishna said makes absolutely no difference to the allegations. And again, regardless of FM doing nothing, other ministers and Musharraf have mentioned that proof has been given to India so him saying nothing doesn't mean much.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

where else would you want him to admit that Pakistan has given India proofs of its involvement in Balochistan ?? Its on the TV itself he said India has given proof of 26/11 to Pakistan..Pakistani ministers did not deny it like India.

What he's trying to say is Krishna saying that no evidence has been provided means very little as he will obviously say that.
 
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Our Foreign minister is a infertile character. He should have responded and responded well that you talk of credible evidence, we have photographs of Indian Secret Services holding meeting with Brahmadan Bugti. Was Manmohan Singh an Idiot who let Pakistan include Baluchistan in the Joint Press Release in 2009? Don't blame India, this foreign minister is feet licker type person. Recall how he reacted to Kerry Lugar Bill and how apologetic he was that his countrymen had rejected KLB and demand Americans to apologize.

Down with Shah Mehmood Qureshi. :tdown:

 
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I talked about this before. This can mean more than just simplistic assumptions that you're making.



And that is completely incorrect. You lie if it's in your interests to do that. What Krishna said makes absolutely no difference to the allegations. And again, regardless of FM doing nothing, other ministers and Musharraf have mentioned that proof has been given to India so him saying nothing doesn't mean much.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------



What he's trying to say is Krishna saying that no evidence has been provided means very little as he will obviously say that.


muje toh lagta hai Pakistani FM ne baad mein Indian FM ko jarur data hoga ki yaar tune sabke samne jhuth kyun bola:rofl::rofl:......humein or mushraf sahab or puri janta janti hai ki sabut diye hai but tumne sabke samne jhuth kaha...jao hum baat nahi kerte, jhuthe kahi ke....

how naive a person can get.....v had given the given the proof abt mumbai. ur Fm said that openly that v have provided proof in the press conference. who was stoping ur FM to said the same...i am still guessing???:bunny::bunny:
 
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I talked about this before. This can mean more than just simplistic assumptions that you're making.
It was job of your FM to contest the Indian FM claim. By keeping mum he accepted than nothing is shared with India. There is no two way about it.

And that is completely incorrect. You lie if it's in your interests to do that.
Admitting Kasab as Pak national was not in your interest, but your Gov. was forced to accept it.
You cann't lie in face of truth.
What Krishna makes absolutely no difference to the allegations. And again, regardless of FM doing nothing, other ministers and Musharraf have mentioned that proof has been given to India so him saying nothing doesn't mean much.
Pls share the news article where any serving minister has said so. It should not be difficult. And to be clear, where its said that evidence is provided to GoI. Not some allegation.

What he's trying to say is Krishna saying that no evidence has been provided means very little as he will obviously say that.[/QUOTE]
You are right what Indian FM says means little, what make diff is that Pak FM kept mum. Thats the diff. Not what Indian FM said, but what Pak FM didn't said.
 
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muje toh lagta hai Pakistani FM ne baad mein Indian FM ko jarur data hoga ki yaar tune sabke samne jhuth kyun bola:rofl::rofl:......humein or mushraf sahab or puri janta janti hai ki sabut diye hai but tumne sabke samne jhuth kaha...jao hum baat nahi kerte, jhuthe kahi ke....

how naive a person can get.....v had given the given the proof abt mumbai. ur Fm said that openly that v have provided proof in the press conference. who was stoping ur FM to said the same...i am still guessing???:bunny::bunny:

Kid, if anyone is being naive, it's you. Just picture Qureshi replying to Krishna saying we have provided the proof. It would create a huge scene. Remember, Qureshi not replying doesn't mean much as both current PPP government and Musharraf government said that they provided proof to India.
 
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no need to get emotional over it..No country wil acknowledge a proof of linking itself with terrorist activities. The attachment of BLA leaders with India is enough of a proof. While India may not be funding or arming BLA directly it is still a signification source of their political indoctrination. Much like we are for Kashmiris and Sikh sepratish. Unfortunately, such activities cannot be confonted with evidence and are near impossible to convict.

Given the porus border of Baluchistan and drug trade, it can easily accquire arms through "non state actors" smuggling arms. Just like we happend to do some "kashmiri shawl" trade with people of AJK.
 
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