India raises concern over Russian attack copter sale to Pakistan

[F.O.X]

Two Mi-24/35 brought down in Iraq when they were doing low level missile strafing by AA. The scenario of dropping 6-8 soldiers sticking out for a while and picking them up isn't perfect and it increases collateral damage where only two pilots would have died, now 6-8 SF soldiers lives are at stack which could be brought down in 3 stage process by AA.

By spending money on Mi-35, why not spend on a better platform which carry more armament (8-16 ATGM missiles Vs 4 ATGM on cobras) or carry guided 2.75" missiles jn large amount. Have better avionics and can secure LZ or carryout precision strikes from an appropriate distance or height where AA can't reach it.

Cobra are effective for close range attacks. We need platforms which do stand off range attacks. from a height of 4000-5000 Meters or at a distance of 4-5 KM.

currently we do not need any platform for pure Air Cover , we need to transport troops for DSM's , and there is no other Oprtion them Mi-35 , if there is let me know .

 

[SHAMK9]

it's only on papers

Like tejas was, for decades?

 

[HRK]

Has any govt spokesman or any one confirmed this? if so can you guys please post a link?

Pakistan to Use Russian Mi-35 Helicopters to Fight Drug Trafficking

PARIS, June 18 (RIA Novosti) – Russia plans to supply Pakistan with Mi-35 combat helicopters to fight drug trafficking, head of the Russian delegation at the international defense and security exhibition Eurosatory 2014 Igor Sevastyanov said Wednesday.

“We are currently holding consultations. We are talking about Mi-35 helicopters, we plan to supply them at the request of the Pakistani anti-drug trafficking agency,” Sevastyanov said.

Head of Russia’s Rostec Corporation, a high-tech industrial producer and exporter, Sergei Chemezov earlier stated that supplies of military equipment to Pakistan are to resume, including Mi-35 helicopters. At the same time, a source in Pakistan’s foreign ministry told RIA Novosti that Russia never fully adhered to the embargo on military deliveries to Pakistan.

Indian mass media reported the Indian government felt some concern about Russia’s plans to sell military equipment to its long-time regional rival and will watch the next steps very closely.

At the same time Rostec stated that India has always been and still is Russia’s strategic partner in military cooperation in the region, “however expanding our activities to other counties in South and Southeast Asia has always been on the agenda and Pakistan is no exception.”

Russia has previously exported MI-35 attack helicopters, the export version of the MI-24, including to Iraq. The two countries signed a package deal on military technical cooperation in 2012, worth $4.3 billion.

 

[Rank]

Two points that you can not grasp. The MI-24/35 is the most heavily armored helicopter in the word, it can, for instance, withstand 12.7mm rounds to its rotor bladed. In fact, the entire helicopter is protected to withstand 12.7mm rounds. Even with direst hits by stinger type rounds to surface missiles, MI-24's were able to land, most other attack helicopters can not even take hits from 7.62.

So your logic that it is easy to down is simply based on ignorance. Also elaborate on what you mean by "bulky" if you think that a helicopter like a cobra is less vulnerable to surface to air missiles then you are very mistaken, the Cobra's smaller profile will not protect it, once a missile is locked it's locked. And contrary to popular myth helicopters can not outturn a missile, so a smaller helicopter has no advantages here.






Yet Russians have been innovative in weapons design so much so that many of the designs/concepts that have come from the Soviet Union/Russia have been copied.

my shit perspective directly linked with their bulk'ness (big bigger) not with their technology!

currently we do not need any platform for pure Air Cover , we need to transport troops for DSM's , and there is no other Oprtion them Mi-35 , if there is let me know .

You don't need Gunship + heli for troops movement transport. We already have Mi17 for that purpose. Pakistan lacking in Gunship not Transport. Mi35 is big fail Gunship ... shotdown easily... the size is extremely big and easy to track on target..

 

[MastanKhan]

my shit perspective directly linked with their bulk'ness (big bigger) not with their technology!



You don't need Gunship + heli for troops movement transport. We already have Mi17 for that purpose. Pakistan lacking in Gunship not Transport. Mi35 is big fail Gunship ... shotdown easily... the size is extremely big and easy to track on target..

Plz do a little more research on what you are saying.

 

[Edevelop]

So basically we decided not to buy anything 'Western'. U.S supplied us with used Cobras but didn't supply spare parts. Result was poor maintenance and frequent crashes. Next we still continue to dislike Europeans. Like always they are too expensive and not everyone wants to sell us something. Turkish T-129 was considered a good fit but i guess it uses an American engine and we didn't want cobra story to repeat. We backed off and started looking for alternatives. China is our major ally and obviously we have a record of being their biggest arms purchaser. However, a helio like WZ-10 is not combat proven. Its still young with developments taking place. This left us to negotiate with Russia, a country which always sided with India. It turns out money is more valuable to them now and we got our luck

 

[F.O.X]

my shit perspective directly linked with their bulk'ness (big bigger) not with their technology!



You don't need Gunship + heli for troops movement transport. We already have Mi17 for that purpose. Pakistan lacking in Gunship not Transport. Mi35 is big fail Gunship ... shotdown easily... the size is extremely big and easy to track on target..

Well that shows your lack of knowledge & operational understanding , I would suggest you do a little more research on this subject and then return with strong arguments .

 

[MastanKhan]

[quote="ptldM3, post: 5819838, member: 21454".[/quote]

Hi,

Thank you for your post. MI 35 is a gem of a chopper----massive fire power against man machine & anything else + the ability to put troops on the ground @ the same time.

The tub on the MI 25 was made out of titanium---it could take the hit of an rpg on its front---. Is the tub made of same material for the MI 35!!!

I tell you---it will be a well cherished asset with the pak military & well utilized once we get it. Some don't understand what massive fire power this machine provides while deploying 18 plus troops on the target @ the same time.

 

[Rank]

Well that shows your lack of knowledge & operational understanding , I would suggest you do a little more research on this subject and then return with strong arguments .

What is so rocket science to understand my msg? simple if Pakistan getting this doesn't mean this Heli is now type F22....

Plz do a little more research on what you are saying.

Wait and see the performance than we will debate on this...

[quote="ptldM3, post: 5819838, member: 21454".

Hi,

Thank you for your post. MI 35 is a gem of a chopper----massive fire power against man machine & anything else + the ability to put troops on the ground @ the same time.

The tub on the MI 25 was made out of titanium---it could take the hit of an rpg on its front---. Is the tub made of same material for the MI 35!!!

I tell you---it will be a well cherished asset with the pak military & well utilized once we get it. Some don't understand what massive fire power this machine provides while deploying 15 plus troops on the target @ the same time.

Suppose I accept your statement than why countries not interested in Mi35 rather go for other platforms both ways those who have $$ or not with healthy $$ both categories not interested in Mi35 if this machine is having super firepower.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pak wanted this chopper for the longest---. If it was available to it 10 years ago---pak would have rather had it anytime rather than the cobra gunship----.

Who better to know the capability of this gunship than the pak military----so much experience in fighting it in afg.

These choppers are the most suited for pak terrain---where on a terrorist camp on the mountains---they can strike with 3 to four choppers with massive air to ground ordanance & then drop special forces on the target to clean up the rest---& then fly back---.

MI 17 cannot do that & neither can the cobra---. It has night strike capabilities as well---just the ordanance it can carry is amazing.

Plz remember----during the afg russian war---the afg were totally done if it were not for the stingers---the MI 24 had totally neutralized the population.

 

[Rank]

Hi,

Pak wanted this chopper for the longest---. If it was available to it 10 years ago---pak would have rather had it anytime rather than the cobra gunship----.

Who better to know the capability of this gunship than the pak military----so much experience in fighting it in afg.

Trust me you're more practical than this PAA think tanks... If they are so smart today we are not lacking in many things... their delayed tactics ... confusions.... lobbying today Pakistan Airforce - Pakistan Army Aviation we have 30 years old FRONTLINE weapons... a country who is the most strategically importance and playing role of all major super powers from last 2 decades... I am not talking about you but many on PDF move such debate to "we dont have money" lol since when we don't have money ? and for how long we are working with global powers ? and how many times we ask for the weapons from whom or for what we are working? Anyway .... on topic.. we will see the performance.

with my argue on Mi35 i am standing on that this platform is not good enough.. if Mi35 is smart platform today every country go for or atleast 50% countries go for this platform....

 

[Desert Fox]

Two points that you can not grasp. The MI-24/35 is the most heavily armored helicopter in the word, it can, for instance, withstand 12.7mm rounds to its rotor bladed. In fact, the entire helicopter is protected to withstand 12.7mm rounds. Even with direst hits by stinger type rounds to surface missiles, MI-24's were able to land, most other attack helicopters can not even take hits from 7.62.

So your logic that it is easy to down is simply based on ignorance. Also elaborate on what you mean by "bulky" if you think that a helicopter like a cobra is less vulnerable to surface to air missiles then you are very mistaken, the Cobra's smaller profile will not protect it, once a missile is locked it's locked. And contrary to popular myth helicopters can not outturn a missile, so a smaller helicopter has no advantages here.

Good points. But do you know how the Iraqi insurgents were able to shoot them down with LAAG's (light anti aircraft guns) during the current crisis in Iraq??

 

[Usama78]

Mi35 is simply a step ahead for us. It can be very assistive in SSG ops maybe. I dunno much but I know it is effective in many ways, like transport... resistance and also its good at providing air support to ssg boys.

 

[acid rain]

Obviously if india is asking for no deal to pakistan then they would obviously have to offer some deal in return to russians.

Not needed because it was just a concern.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

View attachment 35843
@Irfan Baloch @Icarus

the Amount of hate I received recently from some Indian members due to this Russian "backstabbing" seems to suggest that I am the one who is flying them home from Russia