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Featured India Plans $3Bln Drone Deal With US to Keep Eye on Border With China, Reports Say

This is a marvelous counter strategy...When you have those birds in the air used by the Indian military, don't forget to shout at it - "oh! India, you got milked", and poof you will have created a deterrent :)

Btw, this the newer version of the armed Reaper. MQ-9B

 
can u please share the details? in any case it is lot of money for far less capability

Its still at acceptance of necessity stage, the details are not yet out, we can guess work that, as all three branches need these system, each having their command and control systems and weapons package. Navy plans to link these systems with existing P8Is, so expect maritime surveillance systems additional to what is already in the package.
 
This could be interesting. The Azeri-Armenian conflict has shown the use of drones against armour. Unless there is intense AAD everywhere, It could really slow down Chinese progression in the area.
 
This could be interesting. The Azeri-Armenian conflict has shown the use of drones against armour. Unless there is intense AAD everywhere, It could really slow down Chinese progression in the area.
I guess being the second largest Drone player also one of the best field AD army wouldn't mind of a few MALE, let alone an arm race which cost the much poorer rival to spent a wooping 3 billion USD. PLA would rather spend the same amount for 30 J20.:agree:
 
I guess being the second largest Drone player also one of the best field AD army wouldn't mind of a few MALE, let alone an arm race which cost the much poorer rival to spent a wooping 3 billion USD. PLA would rather spend the same amount for 30 J20.:agree:

Yes, the Chinese certainly have that advantage. I think the next stage might be A2A drone combat too.
 
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I guess being the second largest Drone player also one of the best field AD army wouldn't mind of a few MALE, let alone an arm race which cost the much poorer rival to spent a wooping 3 billion USD. PLA would rather spend the same amount for 30 J20.:agree:

What does being the 2nd largest drone player have to do with India having armed MQ-9B? Do you figure your drones shooting the MQ-9 down?

You could have 100 drones or 1000, it does not deter the effectiveness of the Indian MQ-9B. You guys also seem to think this is an all-out war situation instead of a limited area, limited war at best. Thereby creates limitations to your "largest drone inventory" because of a small and saturated space.

Finally, does the arms race theory work both ways? The US welcomes your arm's race with us, where you are forced to spend $130B covering 24 conflict zones, so far. You have no NATO-like alliance partners to rely on and have to meet not only US spending, but also that of the NATO partners. Indians are barely crossing 6B in multiple purchases. Who do you think has a more detrimental arms race burden down the pipe?
 
Supposedly low tech Iran can track, jam and shoot down advanced US drones. Armenians with large numbers of Russian air defense systems supposedly cannot track or shoot down low quality Israeli drones. Perhaps those systems were turned off and men not in even in them. Jordan is selling its Chinese drones.

My suspicious mind says these drones can actually easily be tracked and shot down. It is a scam to sell junk to fools at high prices. Major drone sellers are Israel, the USA and China, right? sure sure, none of these guys would make a bs war to trick buyers.
 
Supposedly low tech Iran can track, jam and shoot down advanced US drones. Armenians with large numbers of Russian air defense systems supposedly cannot track or shoot down low quality Israeli drones. Perhaps those systems were turned off and men not in even in them. Jordan is selling its Chinese drones.

My suspicious mind says these drones can actually easily be tracked and shot down. It is a scam to sell junk to fools at high prices. Major drone sellers are Israel, the USA and China, right? sure sure, none of these guys would make a bs war to trick buyers.
China is not a "major" drone seller if your idea of major means large numbers. Even so, the US does not sell drones freely, especially armed versions.
 
Better invest this money in our domestic industry and have a better quality indigenous drone, we already are working on allot of projects.
 
China is not a "major" drone seller if your idea of major means large numbers. Even so, the US does not sell drones freely, especially armed versions.

Oh. I just did an internet search and various articles said China was making many drone sales another said the three major drone sellers were Iz, US, Chn. I just used what the articles said.
 
Oh. I just did an internet search and various articles said China was making many drone sales another said the three major drone sellers were Iz, US, Chn. I just used what the articles said.​

Sure- and I was not faulting you.
  • China is selling its CH-4B to any and several countries post-haste it seems since 2019. They do not have the kind of controls and strict criteria to sell these drones as we do. Their export drones tend to be smaller than the US. At least for now, on exports.

  • The US is far more restrictive to whom we sell because not only do we have technology a generation or more ahead, BUT because we have by far the largest size(biggest physical size) of drones like the MQ-9B, which can cover 1100 miles, and carry a huge payload of over 3700 pounds, it also happens to be in conflict with the export protocols permitted by the MTCR agreement.
MTCR and its 35 member countries have laws in place restricting the proliferation of certain weaponry, delivery systems, and technology. Current MTCR says our MQ-9B as an example we are selling India can't be freely sold because it can provide larger payloads of than 1100 pounds and delivered over 190 miles.​

 
$100mil each lol
At this point I wouldnt be surprised anymore if they are also getting used ones. These Reapers are so outdated with their crude cameras that can barely compete with your off the shelf Chinese toy drones its hillarious. It will only be a handful years before the USAF outphases that model when India will see them delivered. Its just daylight robbery and pure corruption.
 
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Great against terrorists, not so much against anti-air missiles with large ranges.
 
India’s Drone Dreams – And Reality
The recent Armenia-Azerbaijan clashes have once again brought armed drones under the spotlight. What lessons should India draw from them?
Abhijnan Rej

By Abhijnan Rej
October 12, 2020

India’s Drone Dreams – And Reality

An MQ-9 Reaper performs a low pass during an air show demonstration May 29, 2016, at Cannon Air Force Base, New Mexico.
Credit: Flickr/U.S. Air Force



The Nagorno-Karabakh clashes have once again brought the question of the efficacy of unmanned aerial combat vehicles (UACVs) in warfare to the fore. Aided by impressive photos of Armenian tanks and artillery positions being decimated by Azerbaijan’s drones, many have argued that it illustrates the changing character of war, and increasing pressure on mechanized forces from up above, especially in the absence of air superiority. Others, including The Diplomat’s new defense contributor Jacob Parakilas, point out that the “tanks versus drones” debate is much more complicated than the way in which it is often presented. India, too, has followed the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict closely, its forces trying to infer lessons as they seek to induct UACVs.

Commenting on the use of drones in the Nagorno-Karabakh clashes, in answer to a query from the Economic Times, India’s Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria, noted, “drones are an important part for surveillance and intelligence gathering. Their role in the build up to a conflict is very important. However, once the conflict starts, they do become susceptible to enemy action…” As the Indian air force chief reminded that newspaper, India, like Azerbaijan, has possessed loitering munitions (colloquially, suicide drones) for more than a decade. It should be noted that during the recent Nagorno-Karabakh clashes, Azerbaijan has fielded the Turkish-designed Bayraktar TB2 drone responsible for some of the dramatic footage of kills.

Bhadauria’s comments are especially pertinent as India discusses the purchase of armed as well as unarmed drones from the United States. In July of this year, the Trump administration tweaked an existing export control denial regime to allow the sale of drones flying at speeds of less than 800 kilometers per hour, paving the way for their sale to India. While the U.S. had approved the sale of 30 unarmed SeaGuardians (the naval variant of General Atomics’ Predator-Bs), an Indian press report suggests that the U.S. remains wary of Predator-B sales to India given fears that the technology could be leaked to Russia through “system of systems” issues.

This report also notes that the Indian Army remains in favor of acquiring armed Reapers (another moniker for Predator-Bs) against the Navy’s preference for 22 SeaGuardians. The SeaGuardians are also expected to bolster India’s anti-submarine warfare efforts, especially given its demonstrated ability to dispense sonobuoys, along with other intelligence-surveillance-reconnaissance missions through a maritime Automatic Identification System.

With the 2018 signing of the U.S.-India Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement – which facilitates secure exchange of military information and data – India and the U.S. in principle could coordinate their maritime domain awareness (MDA) activities through SeaGuardians, just like the agreement leads to greater MDA coordination using the P8 surveillance aircraft which India possesses as well. On top of that, should both countries conclude the geospatial intelligence Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement later this year, as expected, India could leverage it through the acquired Reapers to improve the accuracy of their targeting and kills.

Recent Indian news reports also suggest India, following the ongoing standoff with China in Ladakh, is also planning on acquiring more Heron surveillance drones from Israel, while planning to arm around 90 already in service. Israel remains the leading supplier of surveillance drones to India. India has also pushed forward the indigenous Rustom-2 surveillance drone trials following the Ladakh crisis, a significant upgrade from Rustom-1 first flown in 2010.

While much of the discussion around India’s acquisition of drones, their features as well as numbers, will now be determined by budgetary constraints following the COVID-19 pandemic as well as, to a much lesser degree, the lessons from the Nagorno-Karabakh clashes (or lack thereof), what is interesting is that there are already lingering questions about the efficacy of armed drones for India given the capabilities of its adversaries. Beyond the well-known issue that UACVs are best suited for relatively uncontested operational environments and minimal air defenses – which is certainly not something Pakistan or China provides – lies a political question around escalation control.

To wit: Despite the Indian media gushing about the role of a Reaper in the U.S. assassination of Iranian Quds Force commander Qasem Soleimani in Baghdad in January (the implication being that should India also procure them, it too would be able to launch such operations against Pakistan-based elements), the fact of the matter is that, as far as Pakistan is concerned, it would not matter if India uses a drone or a fighter jet to target individuals or groups on its territory. It would react in similar ways to both. (Writing in these pages in January after the Soleimani kill, I concluded that India simply didn’t have a Soleimani-type option when it came to Pakistan, for a variety of reasons.)

It is true that UACVs remove one crucial equation from the risk calculations behind an airstrike scenario – the possibility of a pilot being killed or captured, as was the case with an Indian fighter pilot in February last year. But by the same token, that could incentivize the use of an Indian armed drone capabilities against Pakistan, generating significant escalation risks. At the same time, China has continued its pursuit of counter-drone capabilities including those based on electronic warfare, along with other capabilities. It is therefore unlikely that an Indian UACV capability would make a significant difference in a conflict with China.

What could matter to India is a pursuit of smaller armed drones, like the nine-meter long XQ-58 Valkyrie, operating as a swarm as “loyal wingmans” to human-operated jets. As analyst Paul Scharre, in describing the benefits of cooperative drone-swarming put it, “it allows you to build large numbers of low-cost expendable agents that can be used to overwhelm an adversary.” “This reverses the long trend of rising aircraft costs and reducing quantities.” Alas, these are still experimental technologies far beyond the reach of India’s extremely limited military-industrial base.
 

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