India planning to buy Russian S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems: Report

[Hindustani78]

India is still not a member of MTCR. Isn't this range prohibited by MTCR or will the deal be closed after India attains the membership.

The MTCR seeks to limit the risks of proliferation of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) by controlling exports of goods and technologies that could make a contribution to delivery systems (other than manned aircraft) for such weapons. In this context, the Regime places particular focus on rockets and unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering a payload of at least 500 kg to a range of at least 300 km and on equipment, software, and technology for such systems.


What is the difference between MTCR Category I and Category II Items?
Category I items include complete rocket and unmanned aerial vehicle systems (including ballistic missiles, space launch vehicles, sounding rockets, cruise missiles, target drones, and reconnaissance drones), capable of delivering a payload of at least 500 kg to a range of at least 300 km, their major complete subsystems (such as rocket stages, engines, guidance sets, and re-entry vehicles), and related software and technology, as well as specially designed production facilities for these items. Pursuant to the MTCR Guidelines, exports of Category I items are subject to an unconditional strong presumption of denial regardless of the purpose of the export and are licensed for export only on rare occasions. Additionally, exports of production facilities for Category I items are prohibited absolutely.

Category II items include other less-sensitive and dual-use missile related components, as well as other complete missile systems capable of a range of at least 300 km, regardless of payload. Their export is subject to licensing requirements taking into consideration the non-proliferation factors specified in the MTCR Guidelines. Exports judged by the exporting country to be intended for use in WMD delivery are to be subjected to a strong presumption of denial.

Who belongs to the MTCR?
There are currently 34 countries that are members (Partners) of the MTCR: Argentina (1993); Australia (1990); Austria (1991); Belgium (1990); Brazil (1995); Bulgaria (2004); Canada (1987); Czech Republic (1998); Denmark (1990); Finland (1991); France (1987); Germany (1987); Greece 1992); Hungary (1993); Iceland (1993); Ireland (1992); Italy (1987); Japan (1987); Luxemburg (1990); Netherlands (1990); New Zealand (1991); Norway (1990); Poland (1998); Portugal (1992); Republic of Korea (2001); Russian Federation (1995); South Africa (1995); Spain (1990); Sweden (1991); Switzerland (1992); Turkey (1997); Ukraine (1998); United Kingdom (1987); United States of America (1987). The date in brackets represents the initial year of membership.

 

[migflug]

DECEMBER IS COMING.

S400, PAK FA

 

[danger007]

First buy then make tall claims.

like su 35 thread...

 

[SQ8]

I think if you want to take on that systems you need to do some covert ops .Since that is itself a SAM system you cant use missiles or aircrafts for that .
And I think IAF wont use this as a single system perhaps short range and medium range will also use simulatenously with that to provide a 3 tier air defence layer .

No you dont. What you need is a radiation seeker. That is that. The SAM needs a radar to guide its missiles at the least. A Radar that makes electronic emissions, and in the case of the S-400's radar.. VERY strong emissions. These emissions will scream to any radiation seeker "I am here". The Israeli Harpy that India has uses the same principle. It simply goes low and slow looking for such a seeker.. the second it sees one, it goes straight for it low and slow. And if it is a long range medium to high altitude system like the S-400.. something like the Harpy will find it.. and blow its radar to bits.

 

[I M Sikander]

like su 35 thread...

Like your mmrca threads our childhood. And like lca threads since our birth.

 

[danger007]

Like your mmrca threads our childhood. And like lca threads since our birth.

oh the only difference is they are at Mature stage ( Rafael deal about to sign, LCA order is placed) but you are not... they are not speculated ...

 

[Killswitch]

Its about damn time. Its good to see the Modi government isnt just sitting on requests like the Congress government did.

Waiting for the following:

1500 artillery towed (Hopefully Bharat 52)
M777 still waiting to be signed
Tracked artillery deal to be signed(K9)

AA guns (RFI sent)
SAMS SR LR (Akash being delivered and Israeli JV moving ahead)

New rifle
Newe LMG
New Sniper rifles and Anti material rifles

ATGM (Spike to be signed)

Apachers (signed)
Chinooks (Signed)

New uniform for the army
New Flak vests for the army

New Light combagt vehicles
New IFCVS

Hopefully this will all be signed off in the next year

 

[kinsr]

No you dont. What you need is a radiation seeker. That is that. The SAM needs a radar to guide its missiles at the least. A Radar that makes electronic emissions, and in the case of the S-400's radar.. VERY strong emissions. These emissions will scream to any radiation seeker "I am here". The Israeli Harpy that India has uses the same principle. It simply goes low and slow looking for such a seeker.. the second it sees one, it goes straight for it low and slow. And if it is a long range medium to high altitude system like the S-400.. something like the Harpy will find it.. and blow its radar to bits.

But don't you think that MAR-1 with a range of merely 25KMS is pretty much short legged to take on something which was designed to take on longer ranged threats.

S400 deployed at about 150 KMS away from Pakistani borders is well beyond the range of Pakistani artillery units and only exposed to PAF, which can try its luck with standoff weapons, which in turn would have to bypass Aakash batteries to take down S400 radars. Adding to that, this whole system is road mobile adding to difficulty for PAF.

 

[Omega007]

Its about damn time. Its good to see the Modi government isnt just sitting on requests like the Congress government did.

Waiting for the following:

1500 artillery towed (Hopefully Bharat 52)

As far as Indian Army is concerned,Bharat 52 is dead as far as the ATAGS project is on.

M777 still waiting to be signed

The number to be procured is not sufficient as per me.

New Flak vests for the army

Why??

 

[BABA AGHORI]

India is trying to build a multilayer defence system..... is it a doctirine to start a war.?

No India is building multi layer defense system .. as she wants to be the last one to fire the shot and still survive.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

As far as Indian Army is concerned,Bharat 52 is dead as far as the ATAGS project is on.

Bharat 52 is actually is in track trials. Gaurda 105 is also trialing.

 

[Omega007]

Bharat 52 is actually is in track trials. Gaurda 105 is also trialing.

Being on trial doesn't mean anything if you know what I'm saying.Besides,it's a dated design.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Being on trial doesn't mean anything if you know what I'm saying.Besides,it's a dated design.

They're inducting a even more outdated design, which has it's turret almost unchanged from the 80s.

ATAGS is in prototyping stage, the towed program contenders are trialing, and the initial order number is 1500 guns, which doesnt cover IA's requirement totally. They require a massive 3000 guns. So I wouldnt be surprised if they do induct a certain amount of Bharat 52s, if it impresses.

 

[Raje amar]

@mastan bhai, you are right about locating the s400 battery deep inside India. Though they are place 250km inside and Indian borders, they will cover most of the critical installation in PAK.

After all this discussion let me assure you S400 are not for borders, they will protect the most critical installations in Ind as capital, Mumbai, ambala air base, etc. Putting them on border is waste of money.

@SrNair

 

[Joe Shearer]

Not Baluchistan. However, deploying such assets one also ensures that the asset itself is reasonably secure. After all, just as the S-400 could cover all of Pakistan, it too will be vulnerable to both ground launched and air launched systems that home in on its plentiful emissions. It is the reasons that even the Soviets would place their larger assets closer to vulnerable areas and would leave their border areas to lesser ranged systems.

Agree .But air launched systems ??How ??

@mastan bhai, you are right about locating the s400 battery deep inside India. Though they are place 250km inside and Indian borders, they will cover most of the critical installation in PAK.

After all this discussion let me assure you S400 are not for borders, they will protect the most critical installations in Ind as capital, Mumbai, ambala air base, etc. Putting them on border is waste of money.

The issue was raised by SrNair, who wanted to know if placing these at our borders would create a no-fly zone over Pakistan. Your post would be more appropriate addressed to him.