India-Pakistan through the Israel-Palestine Mirror

[Secur]

Please see my reply above.

It doesn't even appear as the intention of IDF and by extension the Govt of Israel to avoid "collateral damage" looking at the pattern and attacks on civilian infrastructure being carried out, almost everywhere on the entire Gaza. There is no comparison with the Pakistani war in North Waziristan, we haven't asked the population to stay and be bombed. The IDPs are being taken care of, throughout the country by Govt and public alike, what similarity even is there with this? Its ironic that you blindly trust the Israeli position and stances being spread by propaganda media far and wide yet take your own country's army with a grain of salt.

 

[Dillinger]

It doesn't even appear as the intention of IDF and by extension the Govt of Israel to avoid "collateral damage" looking at the pattern and attacks being carried out, almost everywhere on the entire Gaza. There is no comparison with the Pakistani war in North Waziristan, we haven't asked the population to stay and be bombed. Its ironic that you blindly trust the Israeli position and stances yet take your own country's army with a grain of salt.

Not to mention, Gaza is what, 5-10km across in girth and blockaded from all sides. Where are they going to run, sprout wings and fly off into the sunset to better pastures?

Surprisingly @Hyperion seems to be happy with the state of affairs, other than the bombing of the shcool(s).

 

[Jango]

You mean to say that the IDF can do more to prevent civilian casualties, but the Pakistan Army cannot? I would suggest that both sides can do more to reduce civilian casualties. My phrase "to the best of their abilities" was meant to refer to preventing indiscriminate targeting of their own civilians by others, because that is their duty.

And what more can the Pakistani Army do?

I am not going to argue with you here, but just enumerate the points you have in your mind, so I can picture where you are coming from.

 

[Barakah]

You mean to say that the IDF can do more to prevent civilian casualties, but the Pakistan Army cannot? I would suggest that both sides can do more to reduce civilian casualties. My phrase "to the best of their abilities" was meant to refer to preventing indiscriminate targeting of their own civilians by others, because that is their duty.

Ive been reading ur posts quiet frequently acting all high and mighty trying to portray ur self as a unbiased intellect but now i know your taking the piss and arguing for the sake of it. The difference here is Pakistan Army does everything it can to protect its citizens but that does not mean you turn into a beast and wreak havoc against civilians of a different ethnicity or background like Israel does. Do you understand this you fucktard?

 

[Jango]

The type and use of munitions is a military decision made by commanders to best meet the overall mission.

Well this was pretty hypocritical...now it's become a military decision byt he local commanders?

Using M109 arty shells and dropping mortars from the back of an APC is hardly "accurate" and is in now way something you would use if you want to avoid civilian casualties in a built up area.

I know that arty has become very accurate, but even the arty fire is at first only a calculated guess. And afterwards adjustments are made in consultation with the observers. Maybe @Xeric can put some more light on that.

 

[Secur]

Not to mention, Gaza is what, 5-10km across in girth and blockaded from all sides. Where they going to run, sprout wings and fly off into the sunset to better pastures?

Surprisingly @Hyperion seems to be happy with the state of affairs, other than the bombing of the shcool(s).

Gaza is no problem, at all, when compared to what we are facing with a porous border on one side and an extremisn fueled sympathetic population in different areas, on the other. Even the rocket attacks, human shields and terror tunnels are highly overrated. Its a virtual prison like Auschwitz, the people can't escape, majority of the supplies can only enter after cleared by the Israelis and they are deprived of basic facilities like water and electricity by Tel Aviv. How many tunnels and rocket storages, even are there, to continue indiscriminate bombing?

 

[Barakah]

Where are the Pakistani hawks heading with this?

taking HUT's call for support against Israel seriously, openly supporting hamas, hailing Hitler and preaching what he did as right, calling for anti Israel anti Jew groupings and rallies, and over all, displaying severe anti semitism traits.....I have no idea where is this leading to for Pakistan's sake.

India's position is clear - we are gradually becoming pro Israel , the only thing hindering is India's energy needs.

your posts stinks of hypocrisy calling us anti semites when you bhartis are the biggest islamophobes on the face of this earth. Go sanitize ur country its lacking toilets. Go teach ur men not to rape. Sick indian tharki perverted mind.

 

[Dillinger]

Gaza is no problem, at all, when compared to what we are facing with a porous border on one side and an extremisn fueled sympathetic population in different areas, on the other. Even the rocket attacks, human shields and terror tunnels are highly overrated. Its a virtual prison like Auschwitz, the people can't escape, majority of the supplies can only enter after cleared by the Israelis and they are deprived of basic facilities like water and electricity by Tel Aviv. How many tunnels and rocket storages, even are there, to continue indiscriminate bombing?

Does it matter? The bombing won't stop and children will keep dying. Bibi was looking for a target and Hamas's status as a terrorist organisation made it the softer one despite the fact that it has a better chance it causing Israeli attrition than say the Palestinian authority. I have a feeling, a gut feeling, that by the time this offensive dies down Bibi will argue that they need to reoccupy the whole of Gaza militarily and Egypt will be on-board with it.

 

[Secur]

Does it matter? The bombing won't stop and children will keep dying. Bibi was looking for a target and Hamas's status as a terrorist organisation made it the softer one despite the fact that it has a better chance it causing Israeli attrition than say the Palestinian authority. I have a feeling, a gut feeling, that by the time this offensive dies down Bibi will argue that they need to reoccupy the whole of Gaza militarily and Egypt will be on-board with it.

No, it doesn't matter. Because regardless of objectives achieved, this appears to continue for a long period of time. I am quite certain that all tunnels and rocket storages have been taken care of, mostly, in the blockaded city and on the other side, by the Egyptians. The objective is to pacify the population under the Dahiya doctrine calling for targeting civilians to establish deterrence, this is mass punishment and nothing else and just in favor of Israelis, the Arab countries are happy and content to see the people of Gaza suffering, as long as the Iran-backed Hamas can be taken care of, so they can soothe their oil-lubricated big fact egos. The Americans ready to replenish the supplies, every now and then. The situation is just right for Tel Aviv, they are in the Goldilocks zone for now.

P.S. Think of it, 350 of the 84% civilians killed in the ongoing conflict, have been children.

 

[Dillinger]

No, it doesn't matter. Because regardless of objectives achieved, this appears to continue for a long period of time. I am quite certain that all tunnels and rocket storages have been taken care of, mostly, in the blockaded city and on the other side, by the Egyptians. The objective is to pacify the population under the Dahiya doctrine calling for targeting civilians to establish deterrence, this is mass punishment and nothing else and just in favor of Israelis, the Arab countries are happy and content to see the people of Gaza suffering, as long as the Iran-backed Hamas can be taken care of. The Americans ready to replenish the supplies, every now and then. The situation is just right for Tel Aviv, they are in the Goldilocks zone for now.

P.S. Think of it, 350 of the 84% civilians killed in the ongoing conflict, have been children.

Surreal fu&%ery!

I am all on board for knocking off jihadis, and I get that collateral damage is pretty much the one constant of all warfare, but this is seriously surreal.

 

[VCheng]

It doesn't even appear as the intention of IDF and by extension the Govt of Israel to avoid "collateral damage" looking at the pattern and attacks on civilian infrastructure being carried out, almost everywhere on the entire Gaza. There is no comparison with the Pakistani war in North Waziristan, we haven't asked the population to stay and be bombed. The IDPs are being taken care of, throughout the country by Govt and public alike, what similarity even is there with this? Its ironic that you blindly trust the Israeli position and stances being spread by propaganda media far and wide yet take your own country's army with a grain of salt.

The real irony is that equal amounts of salt, from zero to the whole shaker, apply to both situations. For example, we know about the civilian's plight in Gaza from the international media, who are covering the story comprehensively. Yet, the Pakistan Army has banned all media coverage of what it is doing. I am not trusting the Israeli position, but I do see the independent media covering what they are doing. When there are similar sources covering what is being done in FATA, we can then see where the salt is needed or not.

 

[Dillinger]

Well this was pretty hypocritical...now it's become a military decision byt he local commanders?

Using M109 arty shells and dropping mortars from the back of an APC is hardly "accurate" and is in now way something you would use if you want to avoid civilian casualties in a built up area.

I know that arty has become very accurate, but even the arty fire is at first only a calculated guess. And afterwards adjustments are made in consultation with the observers. Maybe @Xeric can put some more light on that.

As @Xeric will probably tell you. Indirect fire support while being bread and butter for any army is always tricky, even with the best fire discipline you REALLY DO NOT WANT TO DEPLOY IT when your soldiers are "danger close". In fact you can easily use the net to find out the distance from the point of strike (as in a rough area encompassed by a circle with the point of strike as the center) which is encompassed in the region within which you would be danger close. Indirect fire support in a densely populated civilian area is to "avoiding collateral damage" as a perforated wiener hat is to avoiding STDs.

In fact, I think @DESERT FIGHTER might shed some light too, correct me if I am wrong, but you've got family working with gunners, no?

 

[VCheng]

And what more can the Pakistani Army do?

I am not going to argue with you here, but just enumerate the points you have in your mind, so I can picture where you are coming from.

That is not the topic here. The topic is the Israeli-Palestinian mirror applied to Pakistan.

Well this was pretty hypocritical...now it's become a military decision byt he local commanders?

Using M109 arty shells and dropping mortars from the back of an APC is hardly "accurate" and is in now way something you would use if you want to avoid civilian casualties in a built up area.

I know that arty has become very accurate, but even the arty fire is at first only a calculated guess. And afterwards adjustments are made in consultation with the observers. Maybe @Xeric can put some more light on that.

The military is given a task by its political chain of command to achieve certain goals, but it is the military's prerogative to plan out how to best achieve it.

 

[Secur]

Surreal fu&%ery!

I am all on board for knocking off jihadis, and I get that collateral damage is pretty much the one constant of all warfare, but this is seriously surreal.

This isn't knocking off Jihadis, this is something very different.

 

[VCheng]

the Arab countries are happy and content to see the people of Gaza suffering,

Why do you think that is? After all, it is an Arab problem. Why are Pakistanis try to be more Arab than the Arabs themselves?