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India-Pakistan tension can no longer be ignored; Kashmir suffering, says Turkey's Erdogan

Please pardon India and Russia.As Turkey with nato beat the hell outta us. And let's say if India Turkey engage in war. Which Nato country will join against India? If Nato does. And we just have to say Yes to Russia for outright Alliance in all matters.
Do you honestly believe that NATO/US would allow Turkey to engage in war against India? That scenario itself is ridicilous and thinking that NATO would attack India just because Turkey did, is laughable. Europeam nations have more "important" things to do than to fund idiotic war between Turkey and India.

So now Turkey is interested in human rights and love? :azn:

Who believes these hypocrites anymore? Unbelievable... Especially from Erdogan.
 
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Do you honestly believe that NATO/US would allow Turkey to engage in war against India? That scenario itself is ridicilous and thinking that NATO would attack India just because Turkey did, is laughable. Europeam nations have more "important" things to do than to fund idiotic war between Turkey and India.

So now Turkey is interested in human rights and love? :azn:

Who believes these hypocrites anymore? Unbelievable... Especially from Erdogan.

It's not me but another Pakistani who thinks Turkey is more powerful than India just because he don't like India.

Turkey may be great of great power for Pakistan. But not for India. We can mount more weight than turkey at global stage. Both militarily and diplomatically. Conveniently and non conventionally. Nato or veto.

As I said İndia just has to say yes to one group for outright unconditional commitment for Alliances

On lighter note. What happens if India And China made a military Alliance along with Russia against West???

How many people here think China will bunk Pakistan, join hands with India and how many thinks they won't bunk Pakistan???
 
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What point? You gave two shitty arguments in your last post --

1) That the Shimla Agreement has become old, so its fine to breach it, because you know....times change.. dafuq..!!

2) That it's fine for Pakistan to breach the Shimla Agreement because India breached the UN resolutions.

These above were your two “points ”. I countered them by these arguments respectively ---

★ If Shimla agreement can become breachable simply on the grounds of being a 35 years old treaty, then the same would apply to IWT, which is even older (46 years).

★ Your second argument rests on a lie. You seem to believe that It was India which refused to adhere to UN resolutions, while the truth is completely reverse.. It was actually Pakistan who refused to follow the UN recommendations and wanted only 1 out of the three UN-suggested steps to be taken (that too, only the third step, skipping the first two). Ulta Choir Kotwal ko daante...lol
No, I said no such thing. I said that if India can blatantly ignore international resolutions, so can Pakistan, in which case India has zero right to complain.

My point is simple, India's stance is hypocritical, nothing more.

My argument is based upon facts. These exact arguments of yours have been debated to death, but I'll go ahead and humor you.

First of all, you comparing the Simla agreement with the IWT is completely and utterly flawed, as both their circumstances are completely different. Non-implementation of the Simla agreement will result in political tensions, breaching of the IWT can and probably will result in a major war.

If my argument is based upon a lie, than your argument has even less hope of making any sense.

Next, India's stance is clear, they refuse to acknowledge the UN resolutions, which still stand to this day, regardless of the Simla agreement. Pakistan has made it clear that it will also follow the resolutions, so your entire point is moot.

"should've, could've, did in the past" is all you're arguing, when present ground reality is far different than what you claim.

You do realise that the UN resolutions are "non-binding"?
And the Simla Accord is an "agreement".
First of all, Christina Fair isn't a good anything, post better sources. Next, that is technically not true.

You do realise that the UN resolutions are "non-binding"?
And the Simla Accord is an "agreement".
Also, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, her account of history is very selective. She completely ignores Daud Khan's attempts at starting the Baluchi insurgency and Pashtunistan movement, and attempts to completely blame Pakistan. For her, history starts at when Pakistan fought back against Afghan aggression, which she claims is unjustified; It was completely justified, as Afghanistan twice sent paramilitary forces into Pakistan, in an attempt to seize control of FATA from Pakistan.

This idea that Pakistan is the cause of Afghanistan's mess is a myth, the truth is even the Soviets didn't cause this mess, it was Afghanistan itself that caused its own demise. By not recognizing Pakistan's existence, by trying to start two insurgencies, and succeeding in starting one (BLA), by trying to annex Pakistani territory, by continuing to this day to deny Pakistan exists, by inviting the Soviets into Afghanistan, by helping the Soviets to continue to try and destabilizing Pakistan's Baluchistan province.

She's has a lot of people fooled, even her own colleagues don't take her seriously.

In fact, just look at her twitter, she writes like she's a teenager. Her biases are quite obvious, and she has been criticized for just that.
 
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I never knew Shimla Agreement had an “out" clause... Would you kindly point it out to me please...
Nowhere did I say, or even suggest that the Shimla agreement had an out clause; If you want to be intellectually dishonest, that's fine by me.
 
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No, I said no such thing. I said that if India can blatantly ignore international resolutions, so can Pakistan, in which case India has zero right to complain.

My point is simple, India's stance is hypocritical, nothing more.

My argument is based upon facts. These exact arguments of yours have been debated to death, but I'll go ahead and humor you.

First of all, you comparing the Simla agreement with the IWT is completely and utterly flawed, as both their circumstances are completely different. Non-implementation of the Simla agreement will result in political tensions, breaching of the IWT can and probably will result in a major war.

If my argument is based upon a lie, than your argument has even less hope of making any sense.

Next, India's stance is clear, they refuse to acknowledge the UN resolutions, which still stand to this day, regardless of the Simla agreement. Pakistan has made it clear that it will also follow the resolutions, so your entire point is moot.

"should've, could've, did in the past" is all you're arguing, when present ground reality is far different than what you claim.


First of all, Christina Fair isn't a good anything, post better sources. Next, that is technically not true.

Bottom line when it comes to your country or ours, if there is something you want the other to do or not do, and if the other decides not to, then eventually war is the only option after everything else has been tried.

I believe India has tried everything.
 
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Yes, should not be ignored..Ask your brother Pakistan to stop terrorizing the region by sending terrorists in every country in the region. Bangladesh has openly hung many Pakistani sympathizer already.
 
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Nowhere did I say, or even suggest that the Shimla agreement had an out clause; If you want to be intellectually dishonest, that's fine by me.

You said and I quote -- “First of all, IWT is a completely different matter, because it doesn't have an ‘out'. It will lead to war."

This was your exact statement. Doesn't this statement insinuate that unlike the IWT, Shimla agreement HAS an ‘out', according to you?

If someone made a statement -- “Abdul is a completely different person from Karim. He isn't sadistic.". Doesn't this statement imply that Karim is considered to be sadistic by the person making the statement?

So, What intellectual dishonesty are we talking about again?

No, I said no such thing. I said that if India can blatantly ignore international resolutions, so can Pakistan, in which case India has zero right to complain.

My point is simple, India's stance is hypocritical, nothing more.

My argument is based upon facts. These exact arguments of yours have been debated to death, but I'll go ahead and humor you.

First of all, you comparing the Simla agreement with the IWT is completely and utterly flawed, as both their circumstances are completely different. Non-implementation of the Simla agreement will result in political tensions, breaching of the IWT can and probably will result in a major war.

If my argument is based upon a lie, than your argument has even less hope of making any sense.

Next, India's stance is clear, they refuse to acknowledge the UN resolutions, which still stand to this day, regardless of the Simla agreement. Pakistan has made it clear that it will also follow the resolutions, so your entire point is moot.

★ You said -- “India feels free to violate UN resolutions, so Pakistan is free to violate Shimla agreement. I say this statement is based upon a lie because India didn't really violate the UN resolution. India simply asked for it to be followed in its entirety, which is the exact opposite of a violation. It was, in fact, Pakistan who refused to follow UN resolutions to the tee, and wanted to selectively implement them. Do you disagree?

★ Just because non-implementation of Shimla agreement will not result in war, doesn't meant that violating it is OK. Its still a recognized international agreement between two sovereign states. You are bound to honor it, whether you like it or not. Violating it sets a clear precedent for the other party (India) to violate any other international agreements with Pakistan at will.

★ Dont invent your own facts.. India doesn't refuse to acknowledge the UN resolutions. India refuses to acknowledge the locus standii of any third party (including UN) in the Kashmir dispute after the Shimla agreement was signed.. And guess what, UN agrees with India on this. Its perfectly legal for India to not allow UN to interfere, unless India wants it to.

★ You say -- “Pakistan has made it clear that it will follow the UN resolutions". I ask you -- Where was this commitment before the Shimla agreement was signed..? Why didn't Pakistan allow the referendum to take place in the 24 year window between 1948 to 1972?
 
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You said and I quote -- “First of all, IWT is a completely different matter, because it doesn't have an ‘out'. It will lead to war."

This was your exact statement. Doesn't this statement insinuate that unlike the IWT, Shimla agreement HAS an ‘out', according to you?

If someone made a statement -- “Abdul is a completely different person from Karim. He isn't sadistic.". Doesn't this statement imply that Karim is considered to be sadistic by the person making the statement?

So, What intellectual dishonesty are we talking about again?
You are LITERALLY arguing semantics, so yes, you are intellectually dishonest.


★ You said -- “India feels free to violate UN resolutions, so Pakistan is free to violate Shimla agreement. I say this statement is based upon a lie because India didn't really violate the UN resolution. India simply asked for it to be followed in its entirety, which is the exact opposite of a violation. It was, in fact, Pakistan who refused to follow UN resolutions to the tee, and wanted to selectively implement them. Do you disagree?
Times have changed, stances have changed, so this logic doesn't apply anymore.

★ Just because non-implementation of Shimla agreement will not result in war, doesn't meant that violating it is OK. Its still a recognized international agreement between two sovereign states. You are bound to honor it, whether you like it or not. Violating it sets a clear precedent for the other party (India) to violate any other international agreements with Pakistan at will.
I never said it was ok, I said it was a two way street. You cannot expect Pakistan to cooperate, and at the same time, let India off the hook for not cooperating.

★ Dont invent your own facts.. India doesn't refuse to acknowledge the UN resolutions. India refuses to acknowledge the locus standii of any third party (including UN) in the Kashmir dispute after the Shimla agreement was signed.. And guess what, UN agrees with India on this. Its perfectly legal for India to not allow UN to interfere, unless India wants it to.
India does refuse to acknowledge the UN resolution, this is not made up, this is literally India's current stance. Pakistan has, multiple times, sought to actually implement the withdrawal of troops from the region, but it has been India that has refused to actually give a positive response.

One does not negate or even contradict the other. stop pretending otherwise.

★ You say -- “Pakistan has made it clear that it will follow the UN resolutions". I ask you -- Where was this commitment before the Shimla agreement was signed..? Why didn't Pakistan allow the referendum to take place in the 24 year window between 1948 to 1972?
Again, stances change, national interests change. Nations and people views change all the time, so you bringing up the past, when today's reality is literally the complete opposite of the past, that is dishonest of you.

I may not have liked chicken when I was a kid, but that doesn't mean I don't like chicken as an adult.

Bottom line when it comes to your country or ours, if there is something you want the other to do or not do, and if the other decides not to, then eventually war is the only option after everything else has been tried.

I believe India has tried everything.
India has tried very little, you can believe whatever you want.
 
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India-Pakistan tension can no longer ignored, OK erdogan so what you can do?
 
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India has tried very little, you can believe whatever you want.

Seeing as Kashmir has always been a part of India, never been a Part of Pakistan for a single minute since Pakistan was created, India has done a lot more to try for peace than any other nation in the world would.

Along the way, when things have failed and you have forced war on to us, we have even gone to war. With your dismemberment in '71.

We cannot do more. You should actually hope that we do not do more. Than we already have.
 
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Seeing as Kashmir has always been a part of India, never been a Part of Pakistan for a single minute since Pakistan was created, India has done a lot more to try for peace than any other nation in the world would.

Along the way, when things have failed and you have forced war on to us, we have even gone to war. With your dismemberment in '71.

We cannot do more. You should actually hope that we do not do more. Than we already have.
Oh please, that's nothing more than propaganda.

You mention 71, but fail to mention that it was India that got involved in Pakistan's affairs, not the other way around. You also ignore the fact that the only reason why India didn't invade west Pakistan was due to the US threatening India with military retaliation.

You talk of dismemberment, trying to score points to try and make me mad, but all you've done is show very little understanding of the very subject you're trying to debate.

Your comments are getting more and more ridiculous. India has done little for peace, all it has done is re-enforce tensions and risk of war.

It was Pakistan that proposed the only real solution to the Kashmir conflict (Musharraf solution).
 
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Read - the armenian genocide should be ignored, the bangladesh genocide should be ignored, the rohingya genocide should be ignored and offensive weaponry sold but the word genocide should be exclusively used for stone pelting idiots.

Read - the suffering of kurds, balochs, uighurs etc should be ignored, only the suffering of kashmiris (excluding those sarpanchs and kashmiri police killed by terrorists and pakistani kashmiri leaders like Sardar Arif Shahid killed by "nobody") should not be ignored.

Mr erdogan, i hope your country reaps what it sows, just how your host country is doing.
 
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Oh please, that's nothing more than propaganda.

You mention 71, but fail to mention that it was India that got involved in Pakistan's affairs, not the other way around. You also ignore the fact that the only reason why India didn't invade west Pakistan was due to the US threatening India with military retaliation.

You talk of dismemberment, trying to score points to try and make me mad, but all you've done is show very little understanding of the very subject you're trying to debate.

Your comments are getting more and more ridiculous. India has done little for peace, all it has done is re-enforce tensions and risk of war.

It was Pakistan that proposed the only real solution to the Kashmir conflict (Musharraf solution).

Only problems warrant solutions. You do not fix what ain't broke. Status quo is maintained by arming for war but trying for peace. To be honest, India is never going to give up on the part of Kashmir you occupy. It is our land bridge to Afghanistan and the CAR states. We are in holding mode. But do not mistake who is holding out for what. It's actually you who seems to be skimming the surface here if you honestly believe the fight is about the part of Kashmir that we hold. That is only in your mind/s. And yes, it is programmed institutionalized propaganda.
 
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So mr edro ,do one thing. Join hands with pakistan to attack india..ok..be happy and keep dreaming..u know a famous scientist once said dreams are more valuable then knowledge..here comes the saviour of decade mr.edro..he will fight usa for what he did to iraq and seria..he will fight izrael ..and he will also fight india..lol
 
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