'India only gives moral support to Balochistan'

[SQ8]

Balochistan’s case is no way near to East Pakistan. There are small incidents which have been shown as a so called freedom movement. India has more to lose if you ignite this war. History tells you that your 1971 adventure didn’t become beneficial for you as you still have hostile Bangladesh in your East.

There are more freedom movements in India as compared to just one so called in Balochistan (which is without public support) and your these acts will increase your problems from West, East, North and South.

I doubt your agents can survive for a longer period in Afghanistan as they already are being eliminated by the real Talibans.

The Bangledeshi government is still rubbing its nose at indias feet, and generally there are very few voices that oppose a near amalgamation of Bangladesh with India. Simply because there are too many commons than uncommon.. and unlike us, Bangladesh has a sizable hindu population which adores India.

The Baloch movement is very real..
I recommend a read..
possibly posted before.

Remarks by Selig S. Harrison, Director, Asia Program, Center for International Policy.


Selig Harrison on Why Pakistan was created and what Jinnah offered the British and Nehru did not.


Delivered at the Baluchistan International Conference, Washington , D.C. , Nov. 21, 2009



Selig Harrison

I am going to start with a citation from the scripture. Scripture for me on the subject of Pakistan is an important book called the Shadow of the Great Game: the Untold Story of India’s Partition, by Narendra Singh Sarila, a retired Indian diplomat who was the ADC to Mountbatten [Vice roy of India]. He got unprecedented access to the British archives. In his book he presents detailed, definitive evidence showing that as early as march, 1945, Winston Churchill and the British general staff decided that partition was necessary for strategic reasons. They deliberately set out to create Pakistan because Jinnah had promised to provide military facilities and Nehru refused to do so.

This is the key to understanding why Pakistan is so dysfunctional. It’s an artificial political entity. The British put together five ethnic groups that had never before co-existed in the same body politic historically. The Bengalis were the biggest. They outnu mb ered all of the other four co mb ined—the Punjabis, the Pashtuns, the Baluch and the Sindhis. Five became four of course when Bangladesh seceded [in 1971].

The army bequeathed by the British to Pakistan was overwhelmingly dominated by Punjabi officers and soldiers. So with the Bengalis gone the Baluch, Pashtuns and Sindhis have faced a cruel historical irony. For centuries they had resisted the incursions of the Moghuls into their territories, but now they find themselves ruled by Punjabis who invoke the grandeur of the Moghuls to justify their power.

The Baluch never wanted to be in Pakistan . They had to be forcibly incorporated in 1948 by a Pakistan occupation army. The army still has cantonments located all over Baluchistan to cope with an insurgency that is periodically suppressed and then soon revives.

Every time it is suppressed there’s a legacy of hatred that explains why the Baluch fighters of the next insurgency are so highly motivated. I’d like to recall today the fighting that raged between 1974 and 1978 to convey an idea of why the Baluch of today are so highly motivated. More than 80,000 Pakistani troops roamed the province at the height of the war.

By July 1974, the guerrillas had been able to cut off most of the main roads linking Baluchistan with surrounding provinces and to disrupt periodically the key Sibi-Harnai rail link, thereby blocking coal shipments from Baluch areas to the Punjab . In the Marri area, attacks on drilling and survey operations effectively stymied Pakistani oil exploration. Army casualties soared as the frequency and effectiveness of a mb ushes and raids on military encampments increased.

At this juncture, the Pakistan Air Force was called in. Helicopters were used not only to ferry troops but also to conduct co mb at operations in mountainous areas. Initially, the Pakistanis employed the relatively clumsy Chinook helicopters that they had received from the United States under their own military aid program, fitting them with guns for co mb at use. But in mid-1974, Iran sent thirty U.S.-supplied Huey Cobra helicopters, many of them manned by Iranian pilots. The Huey Cobra was developed during the Vietnam war and had devastating firepower, including a six-barrel, 20-millimeter automatic cannon with a firing rate of 750 rounds per minute. Until the Huey Cobras arrived, the only way that the Pakistani forces could block off guerrilla escape routes after an encounter was by concentrating troops at key points on roads and trails. That tactic rarely worked, since the Baluch had much greater knowledge of the terrain. Once the Pakistanis were backed up by six or more Huey Cobra gunships, however, special patrols could move in while the helicopters sprayed gunfire in the area ahead of them, slowly herding the guerrillas into ever-shrinking sanctuaries. Even when they sought to hide in previously secure mountain redoubts, the Baluch were often flushed out by the ubiquitous, readily maneuverable Huey Cobras.

The turning point in the war came in a brutal six-day battle at Chamalang in the Marri region, which helps to explain the continuing intensity of Baluch bitterness toward Pakistan today. Every summer, the Marri nomads converge on the broad pasture lands of the Chamalang valley, one of the few rich grazing areas in all of Baluchistan . In 1974, many of the men stayed in the hills to fight with the guerrillas, but the women, children, and older men streamed down from the mountains with their flocks and set up their black tents in a sprawling, fifty-square-mile area. Chamalang, they thought, would be a haven from the incessant bo mb ing and strafing attacks in the highlands. As the fighting gradually reached a stalemate, however, the army decided to take advantage of this concentration of Marri families as a means of luring the guerrillas down from the hills. The Pakistani officers calculated correctly that attacks on the tent villages would compel the guerrillas to come out into the open in defense of their families.

After a series of preliminary skirmishes in surrounding areas, the army launched operation Chamalang on Septe mb er 3, 1974, using a co mb ined assault by ground and air forces. Interviews with Pakistani officers and Baluch participants indicate that some 15,000 Marris were massed at Chamalang. Guerrilla units formed a huge protective circle around their families and livestock. They fought for three days and nights, braving artillery fire and occasional strafing attacks by F-86 and mirage fighter planes and Huey Cobras. Finally, when the Baluch ran out of ammunition, they did what they could to regroup and escape.

Today, the ISI continues to round up Baluch and Sindhis without giving them access to lawyers and courts despite the advent of the so-called civilian government in Islamabad . More than 900 Baluch and Sindhi activists have disappeared without a trace. I urge you to read the Amnesty International report, denying the undeniable: enforced disappearances in Pakistan , which cites chapter and verse on this massive violation of human rights, more than the much publicized disappearances in Pinochet’s Chile .

By themselves, the Baluch are in a weak position militarily, but they are beginning to forge alliances with Sindhi factions that could become significant. What some of the Baluch and Sindhi leaders are talking about is a sovereign Baluch-Sindhi federation stretching from the Indian border to Iran . The most obvious impediment to this dream of course is the fact that Karachi is right in the middle of the area concerned with a multi-ethnic population. But the Baluch and Sindhis point out that Karachi depends on gas and water pipelines crossing through areas of the surrounding countryside under their control.

An independent Baluch-Sindhi federation would not necessarily conflict with U.S. interests because the Baluch and Sindhi areas are strongholds of secular values and moderate Islam. Most of the Sindhis are Sufis and many of the Baluch are Zikris. They reject the Wahabi and Deobandi brand of Islam pushed by the Sipa-e-Sahaba and other virulently anti-Shia Sunni groups in the Punjab . The Islamist threat is centered in the Punjab where Lashkar-e-Taiba and other hard-core jihadi groups are increasingly strong.

The word debilitating best describes the impact of ethnic tensions on Pakistan . Ethnic tensions will steadily debilitate Pakistan even if it hangs precariously together. Reducing ethnic tensions has been made more difficult by the United States , which has created a Frankenstein by pouring in military aid for the past fifty years. We now confront bloated armed forces that have become a privileged elite and have a vested interest in holding onto power. They smother civilian government in Islamabad and oppose the constitutional reforms necessary to stabilize the federation. The United States should do what it can to strengthen the civilian leadership and encourage a devolution of power but it may be too late.

While I don't agree with many aspects of the article, the Baloch problem has now spread to the Makran community which was erstwhile neutral.. I am myself witness to a whole group of Makrani's boasting of India's support for their cause and gleefully claiming that soon we would need visas to enter Balochistan.

However, the likely hood of a Bangladesh scenario is very little, first and foremost.. there is no nation with borders common to balochistan that supports the movement.. Iran itself is busy with its own Baloch insurgency and will never support them, Most of the Afghan border common with balochistan is dominated by ethinic Pashtun who aren't really going to help.. but it is the only passage by which clandestine activities in Balochistan can be supported..
So while a civil war in Balochistan is possible.. the size of the terrain.. and the general lack of population centre's and the governments control over resources will see such a movement end up in failure..
Eventually, there will be a resentful baloch populous for a while.. which eventually will be absorbed into Pakistani society.

 

[salman nedian]

The Bangledeshi government is still rubbing its nose at indias feet, and generally there are very few voices that oppose a near amalgamation of Bangladesh with India. Simply because there are too many commons than uncommon.. and unlike us, Bangladesh has a sizable hindu population which adores India.

The Baloch movement is very real..
I recommend a read..
possibly posted before.

Remarks by Selig S. Harrison, Director, Asia Program, Center for International Policy.


Selig Harrison on Why Pakistan was created and what Jinnah offered the British and Nehru did not.


Delivered at the Baluchistan International Conference, Washington , D.C. , Nov. 21, 2009



Selig Harrison

I am going to start with a citation from the scripture. Scripture for me on the subject of Pakistan is an important book called the Shadow of the Great Game: the Untold Story of India’s Partition, by Narendra Singh Sarila, a retired Indian diplomat who was the ADC to Mountbatten [Vice roy of India]. He got unprecedented access to the British archives. In his book he presents detailed, definitive evidence showing that as early as march, 1945, Winston Churchill and the British general staff decided that partition was necessary for strategic reasons. They deliberately set out to create Pakistan because Jinnah had promised to provide military facilities and Nehru refused to do so.

This is the key to understanding why Pakistan is so dysfunctional. It’s an artificial political entity. The British put together five ethnic groups that had never before co-existed in the same body politic historically. The Bengalis were the biggest. They outnu mb ered all of the other four co mb ined—the Punjabis, the Pashtuns, the Baluch and the Sindhis. Five became four of course when Bangladesh seceded [in 1971].

The army bequeathed by the British to Pakistan was overwhelmingly dominated by Punjabi officers and soldiers. So with the Bengalis gone the Baluch, Pashtuns and Sindhis have faced a cruel historical irony. For centuries they had resisted the incursions of the Moghuls into their territories, but now they find themselves ruled by Punjabis who invoke the grandeur of the Moghuls to justify their power.

The Baluch never wanted to be in Pakistan . They had to be forcibly incorporated in 1948 by a Pakistan occupation army. The army still has cantonments located all over Baluchistan to cope with an insurgency that is periodically suppressed and then soon revives.

Every time it is suppressed there’s a legacy of hatred that explains why the Baluch fighters of the next insurgency are so highly motivated. I’d like to recall today the fighting that raged between 1974 and 1978 to convey an idea of why the Baluch of today are so highly motivated. More than 80,000 Pakistani troops roamed the province at the height of the war.

By July 1974, the guerrillas had been able to cut off most of the main roads linking Baluchistan with surrounding provinces and to disrupt periodically the key Sibi-Harnai rail link, thereby blocking coal shipments from Baluch areas to the Punjab . In the Marri area, attacks on drilling and survey operations effectively stymied Pakistani oil exploration. Army casualties soared as the frequency and effectiveness of a mb ushes and raids on military encampments increased.

At this juncture, the Pakistan Air Force was called in. Helicopters were used not only to ferry troops but also to conduct co mb at operations in mountainous areas. Initially, the Pakistanis employed the relatively clumsy Chinook helicopters that they had received from the United States under their own military aid program, fitting them with guns for co mb at use. But in mid-1974, Iran sent thirty U.S.-supplied Huey Cobra helicopters, many of them manned by Iranian pilots. The Huey Cobra was developed during the Vietnam war and had devastating firepower, including a six-barrel, 20-millimeter automatic cannon with a firing rate of 750 rounds per minute. Until the Huey Cobras arrived, the only way that the Pakistani forces could block off guerrilla escape routes after an encounter was by concentrating troops at key points on roads and trails. That tactic rarely worked, since the Baluch had much greater knowledge of the terrain. Once the Pakistanis were backed up by six or more Huey Cobra gunships, however, special patrols could move in while the helicopters sprayed gunfire in the area ahead of them, slowly herding the guerrillas into ever-shrinking sanctuaries. Even when they sought to hide in previously secure mountain redoubts, the Baluch were often flushed out by the ubiquitous, readily maneuverable Huey Cobras.

The turning point in the war came in a brutal six-day battle at Chamalang in the Marri region, which helps to explain the continuing intensity of Baluch bitterness toward Pakistan today. Every summer, the Marri nomads converge on the broad pasture lands of the Chamalang valley, one of the few rich grazing areas in all of Baluchistan . In 1974, many of the men stayed in the hills to fight with the guerrillas, but the women, children, and older men streamed down from the mountains with their flocks and set up their black tents in a sprawling, fifty-square-mile area. Chamalang, they thought, would be a haven from the incessant bo mb ing and strafing attacks in the highlands. As the fighting gradually reached a stalemate, however, the army decided to take advantage of this concentration of Marri families as a means of luring the guerrillas down from the hills. The Pakistani officers calculated correctly that attacks on the tent villages would compel the guerrillas to come out into the open in defense of their families.

After a series of preliminary skirmishes in surrounding areas, the army launched operation Chamalang on Septe mb er 3, 1974, using a co mb ined assault by ground and air forces. Interviews with Pakistani officers and Baluch participants indicate that some 15,000 Marris were massed at Chamalang. Guerrilla units formed a huge protective circle around their families and livestock. They fought for three days and nights, braving artillery fire and occasional strafing attacks by F-86 and mirage fighter planes and Huey Cobras. Finally, when the Baluch ran out of ammunition, they did what they could to regroup and escape.

Today, the ISI continues to round up Baluch and Sindhis without giving them access to lawyers and courts despite the advent of the so-called civilian government in Islamabad . More than 900 Baluch and Sindhi activists have disappeared without a trace. I urge you to read the Amnesty International report, denying the undeniable: enforced disappearances in Pakistan , which cites chapter and verse on this massive violation of human rights, more than the much publicized disappearances in Pinochet’s Chile .

By themselves, the Baluch are in a weak position militarily, but they are beginning to forge alliances with Sindhi factions that could become significant. What some of the Baluch and Sindhi leaders are talking about is a sovereign Baluch-Sindhi federation stretching from the Indian border to Iran . The most obvious impediment to this dream of course is the fact that Karachi is right in the middle of the area concerned with a multi-ethnic population. But the Baluch and Sindhis point out that Karachi depends on gas and water pipelines crossing through areas of the surrounding countryside under their control.

An independent Baluch-Sindhi federation would not necessarily conflict with U.S. interests because the Baluch and Sindhi areas are strongholds of secular values and moderate Islam. Most of the Sindhis are Sufis and many of the Baluch are Zikris. They reject the Wahabi and Deobandi brand of Islam pushed by the Sipa-e-Sahaba and other virulently anti-Shia Sunni groups in the Punjab . The Islamist threat is centered in the Punjab where Lashkar-e-Taiba and other hard-core jihadi groups are increasingly strong.

The word debilitating best describes the impact of ethnic tensions on Pakistan . Ethnic tensions will steadily debilitate Pakistan even if it hangs precariously together. Reducing ethnic tensions has been made more difficult by the United States , which has created a Frankenstein by pouring in military aid for the past fifty years. We now confront bloated armed forces that have become a privileged elite and have a vested interest in holding onto power. They smother civilian government in Islamabad and oppose the constitutional reforms necessary to stabilize the federation. The United States should do what it can to strengthen the civilian leadership and encourage a devolution of power but it may be too late.

While I don't agree with many aspects of the article, the Baloch problem has now spread to the Makran community which was erstwhile neutral.. I am myself witness to a whole group of Makrani's boasting of India's support for their cause and gleefully claiming that soon we would need visas to enter Balochistan.

However, the likely hood of a Bangladesh scenario is very little, first and foremost.. there is no nation with borders common to balochistan that supports the movement.. Iran itself is busy with its own Baloch insurgency and will never support them, Most of the Afghan border common with balochistan is dominated by ethinic Pashtun who aren't really going to help.. but it is the only passage by which clandestine activities in Balochistan can be supported..
So while a civil war in Balochistan is possible.. the size of the terrain.. and the general lack of population centre's and the governments control over resources will see such a movement end up in failure..
Eventually, there will be a resentful baloch populous for a while.. which eventually will be absorbed into Pakistani society.

Baloch people may have raised voice for a greater autonomy which is their right but to compare the current situation with 1974 is not realistic. During the previous government’s tenure, most development was carried out in Balochitan. For the first time we had seen a Baloch prime minister.

Pakistan is doing good to bring Balochistan equal to rest of the country and this is the reason why terrorists don’t have people’s support.

 

[indushek]

The Bangledeshi government is still rubbing its nose at indias feet, and generally there are very few voices that oppose a near amalgamation of Bangladesh with India. Simply because there are too many commons than uncommon.. and unlike us, Bangladesh has a sizable hindu population which adores India.

The Baloch movement is very real..
I recommend a read..
possibly posted before.

Remarks by Selig S. Harrison, Director, Asia Program, Center for International Policy.


Selig Harrison on Why Pakistan was created and what Jinnah offered the British and Nehru did not.


Delivered at the Baluchistan International Conference, Washington , D.C. , Nov. 21, 2009



Selig Harrison

I am going to start with a citation from the scripture. Scripture for me on the subject of Pakistan is an important book called the Shadow of the Great Game: the Untold Story of India’s Partition, by Narendra Singh Sarila, a retired Indian diplomat who was the ADC to Mountbatten [Vice roy of India]. He got unprecedented access to the British archives. In his book he presents detailed, definitive evidence showing that as early as march, 1945, Winston Churchill and the British general staff decided that partition was necessary for strategic reasons. They deliberately set out to create Pakistan because Jinnah had promised to provide military facilities and Nehru refused to do so.

This is the key to understanding why Pakistan is so dysfunctional. It’s an artificial political entity. The British put together five ethnic groups that had never before co-existed in the same body politic historically. The Bengalis were the biggest. They outnu mb ered all of the other four co mb ined—the Punjabis, the Pashtuns, the Baluch and the Sindhis. Five became four of course when Bangladesh seceded [in 1971].

The army bequeathed by the British to Pakistan was overwhelmingly dominated by Punjabi officers and soldiers. So with the Bengalis gone the Baluch, Pashtuns and Sindhis have faced a cruel historical irony. For centuries they had resisted the incursions of the Moghuls into their territories, but now they find themselves ruled by Punjabis who invoke the grandeur of the Moghuls to justify their power.

The Baluch never wanted to be in Pakistan . They had to be forcibly incorporated in 1948 by a Pakistan occupation army. The army still has cantonments located all over Baluchistan to cope with an insurgency that is periodically suppressed and then soon revives.

Every time it is suppressed there’s a legacy of hatred that explains why the Baluch fighters of the next insurgency are so highly motivated. I’d like to recall today the fighting that raged between 1974 and 1978 to convey an idea of why the Baluch of today are so highly motivated. More than 80,000 Pakistani troops roamed the province at the height of the war.

By July 1974, the guerrillas had been able to cut off most of the main roads linking Baluchistan with surrounding provinces and to disrupt periodically the key Sibi-Harnai rail link, thereby blocking coal shipments from Baluch areas to the Punjab . In the Marri area, attacks on drilling and survey operations effectively stymied Pakistani oil exploration. Army casualties soared as the frequency and effectiveness of a mb ushes and raids on military encampments increased.

At this juncture, the Pakistan Air Force was called in. Helicopters were used not only to ferry troops but also to conduct co mb at operations in mountainous areas. Initially, the Pakistanis employed the relatively clumsy Chinook helicopters that they had received from the United States under their own military aid program, fitting them with guns for co mb at use. But in mid-1974, Iran sent thirty U.S.-supplied Huey Cobra helicopters, many of them manned by Iranian pilots. The Huey Cobra was developed during the Vietnam war and had devastating firepower, including a six-barrel, 20-millimeter automatic cannon with a firing rate of 750 rounds per minute. Until the Huey Cobras arrived, the only way that the Pakistani forces could block off guerrilla escape routes after an encounter was by concentrating troops at key points on roads and trails. That tactic rarely worked, since the Baluch had much greater knowledge of the terrain. Once the Pakistanis were backed up by six or more Huey Cobra gunships, however, special patrols could move in while the helicopters sprayed gunfire in the area ahead of them, slowly herding the guerrillas into ever-shrinking sanctuaries. Even when they sought to hide in previously secure mountain redoubts, the Baluch were often flushed out by the ubiquitous, readily maneuverable Huey Cobras.

The turning point in the war came in a brutal six-day battle at Chamalang in the Marri region, which helps to explain the continuing intensity of Baluch bitterness toward Pakistan today. Every summer, the Marri nomads converge on the broad pasture lands of the Chamalang valley, one of the few rich grazing areas in all of Baluchistan . In 1974, many of the men stayed in the hills to fight with the guerrillas, but the women, children, and older men streamed down from the mountains with their flocks and set up their black tents in a sprawling, fifty-square-mile area. Chamalang, they thought, would be a haven from the incessant bo mb ing and strafing attacks in the highlands. As the fighting gradually reached a stalemate, however, the army decided to take advantage of this concentration of Marri families as a means of luring the guerrillas down from the hills. The Pakistani officers calculated correctly that attacks on the tent villages would compel the guerrillas to come out into the open in defense of their families.

After a series of preliminary skirmishes in surrounding areas, the army launched operation Chamalang on Septe mb er 3, 1974, using a co mb ined assault by ground and air forces. Interviews with Pakistani officers and Baluch participants indicate that some 15,000 Marris were massed at Chamalang. Guerrilla units formed a huge protective circle around their families and livestock. They fought for three days and nights, braving artillery fire and occasional strafing attacks by F-86 and mirage fighter planes and Huey Cobras. Finally, when the Baluch ran out of ammunition, they did what they could to regroup and escape.

Today, the ISI continues to round up Baluch and Sindhis without giving them access to lawyers and courts despite the advent of the so-called civilian government in Islamabad . More than 900 Baluch and Sindhi activists have disappeared without a trace. I urge you to read the Amnesty International report, denying the undeniable: enforced disappearances in Pakistan , which cites chapter and verse on this massive violation of human rights, more than the much publicized disappearances in Pinochet’s Chile .

By themselves, the Baluch are in a weak position militarily, but they are beginning to forge alliances with Sindhi factions that could become significant. What some of the Baluch and Sindhi leaders are talking about is a sovereign Baluch-Sindhi federation stretching from the Indian border to Iran . The most obvious impediment to this dream of course is the fact that Karachi is right in the middle of the area concerned with a multi-ethnic population. But the Baluch and Sindhis point out that Karachi depends on gas and water pipelines crossing through areas of the surrounding countryside under their control.

An independent Baluch-Sindhi federation would not necessarily conflict with U.S. interests because the Baluch and Sindhi areas are strongholds of secular values and moderate Islam. Most of the Sindhis are Sufis and many of the Baluch are Zikris. They reject the Wahabi and Deobandi brand of Islam pushed by the Sipa-e-Sahaba and other virulently anti-Shia Sunni groups in the Punjab . The Islamist threat is centered in the Punjab where Lashkar-e-Taiba and other hard-core jihadi groups are increasingly strong.

The word debilitating best describes the impact of ethnic tensions on Pakistan . Ethnic tensions will steadily debilitate Pakistan even if it hangs precariously together. Reducing ethnic tensions has been made more difficult by the United States , which has created a Frankenstein by pouring in military aid for the past fifty years. We now confront bloated armed forces that have become a privileged elite and have a vested interest in holding onto power. They smother civilian government in Islamabad and oppose the constitutional reforms necessary to stabilize the federation. The United States should do what it can to strengthen the civilian leadership and encourage a devolution of power but it may be too late.

While I don't agree with many aspects of the article, the Baloch problem has now spread to the Makran community which was erstwhile neutral.. I am myself witness to a whole group of Makrani's boasting of India's support for their cause and gleefully claiming that soon we would need visas to enter Balochistan.

However, the likely hood of a Bangladesh scenario is very little, first and foremost.. there is no nation with borders common to balochistan that supports the movement.. Iran itself is busy with its own Baloch insurgency and will never support them, Most of the Afghan border common with balochistan is dominated by ethinic Pashtun who aren't really going to help.. but it is the only passage by which clandestine activities in Balochistan can be supported..
So while a civil war in Balochistan is possible.. the size of the terrain.. and the general lack of population centre's and the governments control over resources will see such a movement end up in failure..
Eventually, there will be a resentful baloch populous for a while.. which eventually will be absorbed into Pakistani society.

Firstly i would like to thank u for this insightful article, next i have two questions for u,

If the human rights violations mentioned in this article were true then is it possible for this resentful baloch population to some day get integrated??

Next if this article of India helping baloch which for even once i cannot believe not because of our righteousness but because of spineless Leaders which i know govern this country, were to become a reality and both the baloch and Sindhi's form an alliance what do u think would be the result of it for Pakistan as a Nation.

If u would be kind enough to give me reply taking in to account both the possibilites of India helping and not helping this alliance.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Baloch people may have raised voice for a greater autonomy which is their right but to compare the current situation with 1974 is not realistic. During the previous government’s tenure, most development was carried out in Balochitan. For the first time we had seen a Baloch prime minister.

Pakistan is doing good to bring Balochistan equal to rest of the country and this is the reason why terrorists don’t have people’s support.

The argument by the so called self proclaimed tribal leaders for Baloch suffering and lack of development is entirely hallow
Today, the Balochi Sardars are the part and reason for the suffering and problems for the Baloch people.
These same Sardars have ordered the executions of entire families who dared to have difference of opinion.

Within Bughtis there are tribes that have mortal animosities against each other and when they fight it is nothing different to the something that seen in the civil wars in Africa.

Baloch leaders themselves have pulled legs of each other and even conspired against those who would have acquired prime positions in Islamabad.

What Balochistan really needs is the freedom from these draconian sardars so that roads and bridges can be built schools , hospitals and colleges can function and businesses operate without the harassment and threats from these Thugs who are nothing but petty criminals who are committing crimes under the false banner of nationalism.
Indian dream will die out soon.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

................................... the size of the terrain.. and the general lack of population centre's and the governments control over resources will see such a movement end up in failure..
Eventually, there will be a resentful baloch populous for a while.. which eventually will be absorbed into Pakistani society.

FYI for Indians

we Baloch are a Pakistani Society and are the proudly carry the flag of the baloch Regiment

 

[RobbieS]

FYI for Indians

we Baloch are a Pakistani Society and are the proudly carry the flag of the baloch Regiment

To draw you a parallel, there is a large Sikh component in Indian Army but that doesnt restrict Pakistani members here from raising the Khalistan bogey time and again.

The whole point of the thread, in my view is to convey that India can and will use moderate separatism to create trouble for Pakistan, as India is facing in Kashmir. Agreed, Balochistan is no Kashmir, but with good moral support, who can stop it from becoming one?

 

[magg]

Balochs have suffered a lot at the hand of brutal Pak army and ISI. People are regularly abducted by the ISI and then their bullet riddled bodies are found. Even though there is ample labor available in Balochistan, the punjabis are used for many projects thus deprieving the Baloch's of employment.

Never in subcontinent had so many civilians been killed by any army as those killed by the brutal Pak army. In 1974 unarmed women and children in thousands were massacred by the Pak army as they had done a few years earlier in Bangladesh. The Pak army holds the distinction of largest killer of muslims be it in Bangladesh or Balochistan or NPWF(KP). And most of them were civilians.

Even though I agree with the observation that Balochistan is difficult to liberate as no country would fight for them against the brutal Pak army as India did while liberating Bangladesh, but still the Baloch's would make sure they remain a force to reckon with. And who knows the US decided to accelerate the freedom struggle to teach both Pak and Iran a lesson.

For the long term the current strategy of the Baloch's to amke sure that punjabis are kept away from Balochistan remains perfect. However the human right groups like amnesty international should be more proactive in making sure that the human rights of the Balochs are upheld as they face a much brutal Pak army which can kill civilians and pass them off as "terror suspects". My sympathies are with the people of Balochistan.

 

[anurag_singh]

History tells you that your 1971 adventure didn’t become beneficial for you as you still have hostile Bangladesh in your East.

Buddy 1971 adventure did help us because bangladesh may not be a good friend of India but it is not an enemy like Pakistan. If bangladesh would remain part of pakistan then North East of India would always remain in danger due to China and Pakistan because distance between China and Pakistan would be very less.

 

[RobbieS]

Track record? HaHaHa

I have to deflate your smugness shred your post to pieces

Where should I start?
1. Partition? The creation of independent state of Pakistan on the bases of their democratic choice and human right. That is the fact that fascist maha bharat shouting zealots are still finding hard to come terms to. Pathetic for India that a country which is 1/5th of its size is able to refuse Indian Hegemony? Every moment of existence of Pakistan is a slap on the face of Maha-Bharat lunacy.

2. Freedom struggles within India. Kashmiris, Sikhs, Naxils and many more show the same dismay towards the Indian state so there is symmetry that people are fed up with Indian state.

3. Neighbouring relations. There is not even a single country which doesn’t have border, water or political dispute of the over bearing & opportunist India be it Bangladesh, be it land locked Nepal which is coerced into trading with India & any attempt by that poor state for direct trade with other nations is frowned upon by Delhi.

4. Bangladesh? Oh you say that breaking up Pakistan is to Indian’s credit? Well it has more to do with the desire of the Bengalis to be independent it was going to happen anyway with or without the Indian help. For the sake of track record Bangladesh should have rejoined with India, but it became an independent state, strengthening the argument for partition. What is more both Pakistan & Bangladesh enjoy far closer ties than India wants. Our military exchanges officers which is a testament of our friendship.


5. LTTE. Lets talk about the Indian intervention in Sirilanka, its fight against LLTE (which it was originally supporting) its losses against the tigers & eventual humiliating withdrawal and eventual loss of a former prime minister is hardly a track record worth aspiring to.

6. 1962 war. Dare I mention this war? Or the so called “track record” doesn’t apply here? The kind of humiliation India had lives today after loosing thousands of troops and land to China. The usual intervention & subversive activities of Indians in Tibet backfired so badly that from that day Indian decided only to take on other countries that are much smaller in size.


7. Balochistan Don’t shed crocodile tears for Balochis. This is no war of independence it is a tribal conflict of few sardars of Mari & bughti tribes that has taken a form of a sustained insurgencies thanks to the Indian “cultural centres” along the Afghan borders.
It is nothing but outright arrogance & selfish thugary of these tribal chiefs who don’t want development or exploration in their areas because it means prosperity, education & improvement in the quality of life of the people under them which can result in weakening of their stranglehold on those poor Balochs. Their so called independence struggle is as bona fide as those of the Rwandan, Somalian or Cambodian warlords.

The BLA terrorists are the biggest killers of the very own people they claim to represent. Many Baloch tribes and families have had to seek refuge in Sindh & Punjab because they refused to accept the dictates of these sardars. The same Punjabis are giving shelter to these poor people that the terrorists (with the Indian moral support of weapons & money) are busy killing. Someone tell me that how killing university professors, journalists and doctors and destroying schools or dispensary falls in the category of interdependence or struggle for rights?


Brahamdagh Bugti can travel on Indian passports or can oversee the training & funding of the terrorists in the “Indian cultural” centres along the uninhabited & remote areas of Pak Afghan border but he will have the same fate like Akbar Bughti and Prabhakaran of LLTE. The Indian conspiracy was successful in Bangladesh because of its remoteness from the rest of Pakistan but that’s not the case with Balochistan.

Conclusion It is high time that India gives more attention to the plight of ethnic & religious minorities if it wants to prove it self to be the biggest democracy of the world. Leave Balochistan to its people. The current terrorism in Balochistan is more about the self interest of some Baloch tribal Chiefs where the state has refused to allow them to continue to extort, blackmail & threaten the private and public companies operating in the area. India should spare few tears for the Dalits, Muslims & Christians that continue to fall victim to the |Hindu extremist organisations.

What a waste of bandwidth from an Elite member! You are including creation of Pakistan to prove your point? Pathetic.

 

[RobbieS]

Kashmir is not part of India so no question of bringing it in.

Jana, I am not talking about disputed region. I am talking about control. Kashmir is under Indian control and if Pakistan cant accept that and supports an insurgency, then realpolitik dictates that India takes whatever means necessary to pay back the trouble makers. That could mean stoking separatist fire in Balochistan and even creating trouble where none exist. I dont expect India to sit back and evaluate if helping BLA is valid by any sense. If it helps pay back Pakistan, then I'd welcome it.

2, Dawood Ibrahim is an India and his strength is his strong stretched Underworld in India which India failed to bust or crack. Thats not our problem.

3. The last time we saw Dawood was harboured by UAE and there is NO prove of his presence in Pakistan even now

Come on. He is relative by law of Javed Miandad saheb. I hear he lives in great security in Clifton in Karachi. He may be an Indian, but he's long been enjoying the Pakistani hospitality.

 

[mehru]

Balochs have suffered a lot at the hand of brutal Pak army and ISI. People are regularly abducted by the ISI and then their bullet riddled bodies are found. Even though there is ample labor available in Balochistan, the punjabis are used for many projects thus deprieving the Baloch's of employment.

Never in subcontinent had so many civilians been killed by any army as those killed by the brutal Pak army. In 1974 unarmed women and children in thousands were massacred by the Pak army as they had done a few years earlier in Bangladesh. The Pak army holds the distinction of largest killer of muslims be it in Bangladesh or Balochistan or NPWF(KP). And most of them were civilians.

Even though I agree with the observation that Balochistan is difficult to liberate as no country would fight for them against the brutal Pak army as India did while liberating Bangladesh, but still the Baloch's would make sure they remain a force to reckon with. And who knows the US decided to accelerate the freedom struggle to teach both Pak and Iran a lesson.

For the long term the current strategy of the Baloch's to amke sure that punjabis are kept away from Balochistan remains perfect. However the human right groups like amnesty international should be more proactive in making sure that the human rights of the Balochs are upheld as they face a much brutal Pak army which can kill civilians and pass them off as "terror suspects". My sympathies are with the people of Balochistan.

yeah i can see "your concern" for Baluchis. Although Pakistanis have never shown any solidarity with naxalites but looks like we should do that.

Current strategy of Baluchis or current strategy of separatists? Killing unarmed civilians is the right strategy in your opinion then i should applaud naxalites for this vision as well.

Yeah Amnesty international needs to be more proactive......in case of human rights violation in Indian held Kashmir.

 

[mehru]

What a waste of bandwidth from an Elite member! You are including creation of Pakistan to prove your point? Pathetic.

Why it is a waste of bandwidth? Aren't you guys concerned about Baluchis? So atleast hear them out.

 

[magg]

Although Pakistanis have never shown any solidarity with naxalites but looks like we should do that.

Recently ISI recruiters were apprehended trying to recruit maoists so you r assertion is completely wrong. Moreover the naxalites never said they want freedom from India, they have said they are citizens of India who want development of locals. Thus there could be no comparison between naxals and Baloch's who are oppressed for decades and want freedom from punjabi rule.

Current strategy of Baluchis or current strategy of separatists? Killing unarmed civilians is the right strategy in your opinion then i should applaud naxalites for this vision as well.

It is ethical when one's survival depends on it. The punjabis are clinching the jobs of Baloch's from their homeland. Moreover your so called Pak army and ISI killed hundreds of unarmed kashmiri pandits for "ethnic cleansing" of kashmir, so you hold no moral ground over it.

Yeah Amnesty international needs to be more proactive......in case of human rights violation in Indian held Kashmir.

After 2005 earthquake a body of retired army officers was made by musharaff to see the infrastructure building in occupied kashmir, and it's funds were diverted to "some other work"(read corruption and terrorism) so that the silence of ordinary common man beaten by a crisis could be converted to a more sinister plot as designed by army mens. This just shows how much you guys care about kashmiris.

 

[KS]

To the gentleman who just posted a pic of the Baloch regiment to support that fact that Baloch's loyalty lie with Pakistan..

I can post a hundred pics of our Assam Rifles,Naga Regiments...will that stop u ppl from bringin in NE everytime we discuss something.?

 

[r4rehan]

they are supporting balochistan's terrorists who are in realy short No. who are killing innocent people of our PAKISTAN last day they kill 10 innocent people who are going to bolan to Lahore they have to give the answer