India nears catapult decision for second indigenous carrier

[veekysingh]

I don't support Prc. I support America but I do speak truth about India.

good for you.

 

[jhungary]

Sigh, nobody care about this thread anymore, this officially become a troll fest.......

STICK TO TOPIC GUYS. IN NEW ACC DEVELOPMENT. Don't get derailed and the thread will close.

we are getting 144 FGFA only. i dont see any hope of naval FGFA cause we havent heard any news of it anywhere , but IN may can go with F-35 or rafale-m or if we able to make make naval AMCA.

only 144 will not fit in 2 or 3 Aircraft carrier, is that India can make whatever they want or they have to buy License from Russia??
For 2 to 3 ACC compliment, you need at least 100 planes depending on the size of the carrier. Probably either India buying N-FGFA seperately or seems unlikely that they will use FGFA.

At this stage, it is too early to say.

Nothing has been clearly spelt out about FGFA.
About the F-35, the IN is clearly waiting to see how the F-35 finally comes ou, plus the cost is an issue.
Rafale already exists in a tried and tested Carrier version,plus the IAF will have substantial number of Rafales in service made under license in India.
About the Mig-29K it needs modification to the undercarriage to undertake any cat operations, but that is doable.

Finally there is'nt any clarity yet on whether the Carrier will have actually have the cat design frozen, so that is the important basis of the final choice of aircraft.

My sense now; is that an EMALS design is a possibility and I will not be surprised if the Naval Rafale comes into serious contention. But early days yet.

I think when it come down to, i reckon the American will not transfer the EMALS with F-35 even if India buy bulk. I don't think even french were allow to have our steam catapult technology and they have to make their own, i don't think India and US are finger crossed like that....

So i guess it will be either F35B/Radale M on ski-ramp or India have their own EMALS and you cna probably consider Su-33 with your carrier too.

 

[veekysingh]

all 144 FGFA are for IAF, plus thr are no news of naval-FGFA , so if IAC 2 get the catapult i think rafal-M and f-35 will be on top of list. and if we able to make own naval-AMCA then AMCA will be thr for sure.

 

[arp2041]

only 144 will not fit in 2 or 3 Aircraft carrier, is that India can make whatever they want or they have to buy License from Russia??

144 is only the initial nos. predicted as of now, these nos. are bound to increase, just like the MKIs whose first batch only consisted of 50 ac. These 144 will be for IAF only, currently there is no plan for a naval version.

+ Neither India nor Russia can decide the nos. independently, since PAKFA/FGFA project is a 50-50 JV, one has to consult other for everything related to the project.

For 2 to 3 ACC compliment, you need at least 100 planes depending on the size of the carrier. Probably either India buying N-FGFA seperately or seems unlikely that they will use FGFA.

As for air arm, the plan currently is as follows:

45 mig-29k for INS Viky + IAC-1.
50-60 NLCA for IAC-1 & maybe Viky as well or shore based facility.
Naval MMRCA (50-60 ac) for IAC-2 - Rafale M vs F-35.

so till the IAC-2 will be inducted IN will have close to 200 ac complement.

I think when it come down to, i reckon the American will not transfer the EMALS with F-35 even if India buy bulk. I don't think even french were allow to have our steam catapult technology and they have to make their own, i don't think India and US are finger crossed like that....

Actually, Even if France wants it can't transfer the CATOBAR tech. to India since AFAIK, It was US that helped France to build one, so again approval of US is a must.

So i guess it will be either F35B/Radale M on ski-ramp or India have their own EMALS and you cna probably consider Su-33 with your carrier too.

IN will never go for ski-jump AC for the second one as they want more capable & larger AC, ski-jump reduces the payload carried by ac & IN doesn't want that, It will be a choice b/w CATOBAR or EMALS.

+ su-33 is now a dead project/ac, even the Russian Navy is going for mig-29ks now, IN will either go for 4.5 gen or 5 gen ac for future carriers.

 

[sancho]

do u think cost will be issue in long run (if things goes better dont u think india will be able to spend (5-8 billion on f-35 )? how much a f-35 will cost? i guess main issue will be TOT. and the will of americans to sell us a high end tech.

Cost will definitely be an issue, since carrier fighters will be procured in rather low numbers, which again increases the costs too. Not to mention that the new EMALS system won't come cheap either, add E-2Ds and you have a very costly combo for Indias biggest carrier. All this with the operational restrictions that comes with US toys!

but sancho, Russians are themselves making a bigger nuclear AC, obviously they will also need a more capable jet, N-PAKFA will be the best choice for them also, right??

Russia so far is not producing any carrier, they want a naval Pak Fa for their Kuznetsov carrier in the mid run and want to develop up to 4 new carriers in the long run. However, they might be happy with the STOBAR design but IN is not, so if we can get catapults, it's clearly preferable and that then will also decide which fighters could be used. So far I doubt that a naval Pak Fa / FGFA could be used with catapults.

I don't think even french were allow to have our steam catapult technology and they have to make their own

The French got steam catapults from the US, just like E-2Cs.

So i guess it will be either F35B/Radale M on ski-ramp

F35B is no option at all, since IN wants arrested landing capability and even if EMALS is not on offer, steam catapults could be, which opens the way for Rafale M, F18SH and F35C. If STOBAR is the only option, things will be completelly different again, N-LCAs and Mig 29Ks could be used until naval Pak Fa/FGFA or AMCA would be available.

 

[veekysingh]

we will get IAC2 no before 2020 , in this 8 year time , india an almost double the defence budget ( almost 80-90 billion) , you still think cost will be a issue? if we buy F-35 we would be buying it off the self so i dont see increase cost because of small numbers ,
and dont u think PAKFA will be way too heavy for STOBAR?

 

[sancho]

we will get IAC2 no before 2020 , in this 8 year time , india an almost double the defence budget ( almost 80-90 billion) , you still think cost will be a issue? if we buy F-35 we would be buying it off the self so i dont see increase cost because of small numbers ,
and dont u think PAKFA will be way too heavy for STOBAR?

Smaller number always increases the costs, that's a fact and the procurement cost alone will be high, but you have to add the operational costs too. Operating F35 is 1.5 times costlier than operating F18s!
Pak Fa for STOBAR carriers is possible if the fighter has enough thrust and the carrier is big enough to offer a long take off run.

 

[veekysingh]

Smaller number always increases the costs, that's a fact and the procurement cost alone will be high, but you have to add the operational costs too. Operating F35 is 1.5 times costlier than operating F18s!
Pak Fa for STOBAR carriers is possible if the fighter has enough thrust and the carrier is big enough to offer a long take off run.

who much f-35c gonna cost? IN will always have option of rafale-m.

 

[sancho]

who much f-35c gonna cost? IN will always have option of rafale-m.

Currently estimated around $130 millions flyaway, but the costs are constantly increasing. Not sure if Rafale M will fit the bill for IN, as it don't has a twin seat version and the fixed wings will require more space too. I guess Boeing will offer the Silent Hornet by then, which don't have these disadvantage, depending on costs and coupled with EMALS possibly the better stopgap till a naval FGFA or AMCA would be available.

 

[Screambowl]

how about get the first one ready first and then think about 2nd or 3rd one?

they have different project workers for both of the ships. so Building of IAC 2 is independent of completing the IAC1. though, experiences and problems faced are always shared.

 

[idune]

BS- ALL of these systems are an adequate counter-measure to "carrier-killers". India will be the the largest or second largest economy by 2055-60 and is dramatically growing its Navy-India's agenda goes beyond the IOR to wherever India's interests may lay. By 2025-30 atleast the IN will be in the top 3 naval powers on the planet- I think that means India can go where it likes in the " seven seas"!!

largest or second largest economy by 2055-60, 2025-30, Navy-India's agenda goes beyond the IOR..... ahha ahha ahha

Going and projecting power are different things. Indian cargo ships can travel to 7 seas today.

 

[Abingdonboy]

largest or second largest economy by 2055-60, 2025-30, Navy-India's agenda goes beyond the IOR..... ahha ahha ahha

Going and projecting power are different things. Indian cargo ships can travel to 7 seas today.

Right, all you can to is dismiss and belittle. Insecure much?

 

[Luffy 500]

How come defence related news of India gets leaked years ahead in their domestic & intl. media. Aren't these things suppose to be secretive.

 

[INDIC]

How come defence related news of India gets leaked years ahead in their domestic & intl. media. Aren't these things suppose to be secretive.

No its not a secret, its open we are constructing 2 aircraft carriers in India.

 

[Luffy 500]

No its not a secret, its open we are constructing 2 aircraft carriers in India.

No that's not it. Reporting of Indian defence articles goes into details of what kind of weapons systems, sub conponents, launch systems will be used. That's quite open.

And how can I enjoy knowing a hegemonist power always up to no good is building 2 AC. Its a cause of concern for all the freedom and peace loving people of the subcontinent.