India must help pakistan : Shashi Tharoor ( The geography of hope )

[janon]

Well, are we allowed to say things like this? From a Chinese member in the mainland:



I'm not saying China has great freedom of speech, that is one area that we can work on in the future. But it is usually exaggerated to ridiculous levels, whereas the truth is that we can pretty much say whatever we want as long as we are not forming a large-scale political movement to topple the government.

Dude, that is a post on this website. Can you write an article criticising the government's policies in a newspaper? Can you write that communism is a bad idea and write in favour of capitalism? Can you argue in a mainstream magazine or TV channel that one party rule is autocratic and democracy should be instituted, so that the government can only rule with the consent of the people, and that governmnets need to be accountable to people etc? These are genuine questions, am not being rhetorical.

However, the chinese government does censor information heavily, even google is screened. If you google "tank man" from anywhere in China you would not get the results that the rest of the world will.

 

[yyetttt]

Whre did China come in from India-Pakistan?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Dude, that is a post on this website. Can you write an article criticising the government's policies in a newspaper? Can you write that communism is a bad idea and write in favour of capitalism? These are genuine questions, am not being rhetorical.

However, the chinese government does censor information heavily, even google is screened. If you google "tank man" from anywhere in China you would get the results that the rest of the world will.

Even Wen Jiabao himself has been calling for political reform.

Wen Jiabao reveals his family was persecuted under Mao - Telegraph

Anyway, this is off topic. I will close by saying that I don't have a problem with democracy, only its implementation. There is a world of difference between developed democracies like Switzerland, and democracies in the developing world like Nigeria.

Considering that the best performing economy in the developing world is China, that should tell you something about how the developing world has been implementing democracy.

 

[mayankmatador]

That is a very patronising attitude. Indians deserve and can handle as much freedom as anyone else. You cannot say that Indians are incapable of having as much freedom as europeans or whites or westerners. It is a post colonial hangover or some sort of cultural inferiority complex to suggest that.



Actually, it is only when we have freedom of speech that we can argue about wrong and right. Arguments cannot take place if one side is prevented from expressing its views. It is for that very reason, to come to enlightened conclusions about right and wrong, that everyone with an opinion should be allowed to say it.

Also, what do you mean by "giving total freedom"? Who exactly "gives"? Do you think freedom is a commodity held by the government to distribute to people in its magnanimity? Freedom can only be taken away. If it is not taken away, it exists. Government or society is not a god who sits and "gives" freedom when it chooses. We are all born with that freedom.

The countries that have freedom of expression have only become freer and stronger for it - they have not degenerated into hippilands, or broken up into pieces because of freedom of speech. If you think the government is a wise being who knows what is good for the people than they themselves do, and should be a big caring parent to all the people, you are dangerously mistaken.

How much personal freedom u wan't..
people like arundhati roy(anti indian,pro pakistani,) and teesta salvad (now caught in faking affidavit case and even she hides her real name teesta javed is she ashamed of it),,, spew venom against their own country,, and see they are very much alive,,
Im not against freedom of speech.constraint should be maintained.
Arundhati roy(ISI agent) when people all over india were praying for well being of captured... she was connecting this with kashmir...
How much freedom does an indian want:- He cant spit anywhere,He can use his influence to grab cochin IPL team for his gf,he can say anything baseless (dogvijay singh),he can do endless corruption(Amubumani Raja),He can be a moron(Lalu prasad yadav),thou can use public money for making her own statue(Mayawati),this list can go endless
does right to equality prevails in our country with all sorts of Reservations and quotas..
A poem i found some where on net
It's the Soldier, not the reporter,
Who has given us the freedom of the press.

It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.

It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...

It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

If you care to offer the smallest token of recognition and appreciation to the Military, Please pray for our men and women Who have served and are currently serving our country and pray for those who have given the ultimate sacrifice for freedom.....

God Bless!!


Jai Hind

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Maybe you could explain what it is, then? After all, the topic is freedom of speech. Oh wait, you won't have much to say on that.

Anyway...my point was not to flaim the chinese members. I was making a factual claim that we have the freedom to write this, and cannot be punished or exiled, as somebody suggested. China was just the first example that came to mind to compare. If you think I am mistaken, and Chinese people have guaranteed freedom of speech, be my guest and enlighten me. I have heard otherwise.

Freedom of speech?? make sure your so call democracy provide your starving Indians with 3 meals per day before bragging about the greatness of freedom...you might be lucky to be a rich Indian's son with PC and internet but those +200 millions hungers in street of India don't even have the luxury or posiblity to enjoy your democracy system...LMAO

 

[tvsram1992]

Then why do you oppose the need for a political solution as proposed(however far fetched) by Mr Taroor?

read my post once again
i didnt oppose that , what i feel is Pakistan should make the friendly move now which it made already , at the same time Pakistan sponsored terrorists should be discouraged .

 

[janon]

How much personal freedom u wan't..
people like arundhati roy(anti indian,pro pakistani,) and teesta salvad (now caught in faking affidavit case and even she hides her real name teesta javed is she ashamed of it),,, spew venom against their own country,, and see they are very much alive,,
Im not against freedom of speech.constraint should be maintained.
Arundhati roy(ISI agent) when people all over india were praying for well being of captured... she was connecting this with kashmir...
How much freedom does an indian want:- He cant spit anywhere,He can use his influence to grab cochin IPL team for his gf,he can say anything baseless (dogvijay singh),he can do endless corruption(Amubumani Raja),He can be a moron(Lalu prasad yadav),thou can use public money for making her own statue(Mayawati),this list can go endless
does right to equality prevails in our country with all sorts of Reservations and quotas..
A poem i found some where on net
It's the Soldier, not the reporter,
Who has given us the freedom of the press.

It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.

It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...

It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

If you care to offer the smallest token of recognition and appreciation to the Military, Please pray for our men and women Who have served and are currently serving our country and pray for those who have given the ultimate sacrifice for freedom.....

God Bless!!


Jai Hind

If it is the soldier who has given you the freedom, is that any reason that that freedom shouldn't be exercised? What is the relevance of telling me that? Why are you making it into a soldier versus poet thing? Did I say anything to insult any soldier? Just because I am arguing in favour of freedom of speech, don't suddenly try to make it appear that I showed any disrespect to soldiers or that I don't appreciate the military. Why exactly do you suggest me to show appreciation for the military? I can also suggest the same to you with equal justification.

Also, the list that you mentioned - land grabbing, spitting in public, making statues, corruption etc etc has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Don't confuse issues.

You are right that the right to equality doesnt exist because of quotas. Again, that is no reason to deny freedom of speech. Don't confuse issues.

 

[yyetttt]

Freedom of speech?? make sure your so call democracy provide your starving Indians with 3 meals per day before bragging about the greatness of freedom...you might be lucky to be a rich Indian's son with PC and internet but those +200 millions hungers in street of India don't even have the luxury or posiblity to enjoy your democracy system...LMAO

It's 320 million poor, actually

 

[janon]

Maybe you could explain what it is, then? After all, the topic is freedom of speech. Oh wait, you won't have much to say on that.

Anyway...my point was not to flaim the chinese members. I was making a factual claim that we have the freedom to write this, and cannot be punished or exiled, as somebody suggested. China was just the first example that came to mind to compare. If you think I am mistaken, and Chinese people have guaranteed freedom of speech, be my guest and enlighten me. I have heard otherwise.

Freedom of speech?? make sure your so call democracy provide your starving Indians with 3 meals per day before bragging about the greatness of freedom...you might be lucky to be a rich Indian's son with PC and internet but those +200 millions hungers in street of India don't even have the luxury or posiblity to enjoy your democracy system...LMAO

Yes I knew that one was coming. Remarks about toilets or poverty when you are tongue tied as to the topic at hand. That was very very predictable. The standard response here of some people when they are confronted with something bad about their country - India has poor people, ha ha ha!

I am assuming that you have nothing valuable to add about freedom of speech, as I predicted.

Thanks to Chinese Dragon for staying on topic on that touchy issue. Thats a lot to ask for with some people.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Nice words. But they are just that.


It is all well and good pointing to goals and aims but offering no plan of action is worse than useless. To get from here to these lofty dreams of Tharoor is so far away it almost seems impossible. We don't even know what the state of Pakistan will look le in 2-3 years let alone where Indo-Pak relations will stand.

Not to mention he gives 0 advice on how to remov ethe biggest obstacle to peace- the PA.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Yes I knew that one was coming. Remarks about toilets or poverty when you are tongue tied as to the topic at hand. That was very very predictable. The standard response here of some people when they are confronted with something bad about their country - India has poor people, ha ha ha!

I am assuming that you have nothing valuable to add about freedom of speech, as I predicted.

Thanks to Chinese Dragon for staying on topic on that touchy issue. Thats a lot to ask for with some people.

your Indians discussion have nothing to surprise us neither, every time you have nothing better to say..then bragging freedom of speech and democracy is your ultimate way to find an exit or to divert the conversation such:

-we might be poor but at least we're democratic country..unlike communist
-we're not rich but at least we have freedom of speech..unlike China

I have seen over thousand times of this kinds of arguments...If your so call democracy couldn't help +200 millions of poor indians than what's the point of bragging it...and I'm pretty sure that thsese starving indians are speechless with empty stomac...let alone the freedom of speech...LMAO

 

[janon]

your Indians discussion have nothing to surprise us neither, every time you have nothing better to say..then bragging freedom of speech and democracy is your ultimate way to find an exit or to divert the conversation such:

-we might be poor but at least we're democratic country..unlike communist
-we're not rich but at least we have freedom of speech..unlike China

I have seen over thousand times of this kinds of arguments...If your so call democracy couldn't help +200 millions of poor indians than what's the point of bragging it...and I'm pretty sure that thsese starving indians are speechless with empty stomac...let alone the freedom of speech...LMAO

If you actually followed the conversation, you would have known that that is not how freedom of speech came into this discussion. Somebody said Mr Tharoor should be exiled for writing this, I pointed out that people have the freedom to write this, and a lot worse. It didn't come into the conversation as a way of diverting the conversation from an unpleasant subject. But I don't expect you to be able to follow a four page conversation. And you can continue with your LMAOs about poor people, that just shows your nature.

Also, if you want to be taken seriously in future, stop asking stupid questions like "has democracy helped your poor people". As I mentioned before in this thread (not that I expect you to read or retain what you read), democracy has nothing to do with it. Democracy just implies an elected government, it describes a system of governance. Democracies can be rich, democracies can be poor. Democracies may have freedom of speech, some democracies may not. Democracy is not a being that is expected to feed the poor or keep streets clean.

 

[mayankmatador]

If it is the soldier who has given you the freedom, is that any reason that that freedom shouldn't be exercised? What is the relevance of telling me that? Why are you making it into a soldier versus poet thing? Did I say anything to insult any soldier? Just because I am arguing in favour of freedom of speech, don't suddenly try to make it appear that I showed any disrespect to soldiers or that I don't appreciate the military. Why exactly do you suggest me to show appreciation for the military? I can also suggest the same to you.

Also, the list that you mentioned - land grabbing, spitting in public, making statues, corruption etc etc has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Don't confuse issues.

I gave u an excellent example of arundhati roy,, who exercises her freedom of speech showing her hatred toward our country.
freedom is double edge sword so shud b used cautiously...

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

 

[janon]

I gave u an excellent example of arundhati roy,, who exercises her freedom of speech showing her hatred toward our country.
freedom is double edge sword so shud b used cautiously...

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

Yes, she has said some nasty things about the country, but guess what? The country is still here. You may not like what she says, but that doesnt give you the right to put her in prison. You can use your own freedom of speech to point out why she is wrong if you think she is wrong. But she does have that freedom, and should. If your room mate says something bad about the house you both live in, that doesnt give you the right to lock her in or punish her.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

If you actually followed the conversation, you would have known that that is not how freedom of speech came into this discussion. Somebody said Mr Tharoor should be exiled for writing this, I pointed out that people have the freedom to write this, and a lot worse. It didn't come into the conversation as a way of diverting the conversation from an unpleasant subject. But I don't expect you to be able to follow a four page conversation. And you can continue with your LMAOs about poor people, that just shows your nature..

Usually I don't care how is your Indian democracy system..good, bad or urgly I don't give a damn..nor to those starving and hungry people...I'm just not interested in your Indian thread, but if you drag China to set as example of freedom of speech or to compare how democratic you Indians are..than I reserve the right to dig out the inperfection and negative sides of your democratic system.

Also, if you want to be taken seriously in future, stop asking stupid questions like "has democracy helped your poor people". As I mentioned before in this thread (not that I expect you to read or retain what you read), democracy has nothing to do with it. Democracy just implies an elected government, it describes a system of governance. Democracies can be rich, democracies can be poor. Democracies may have freedom of speech, some democracies may not. Democracy is not a being that is expected to feed the poor or keep streets clean

the real democracy is not to serve only the wealthy and rich people. If your democracy system just ignore or exclude the care of these +200 millions starving people...than it's just a fake democracy...or you can calt that bourgeoisy democracy system.