India: Muslim told to not offer Namaz neither wear scull cap in the presence of police.

[war&peace]

1) Yaar, come on, Those who did not support were being overly idealistic. They thought the Non-Muslims would stop converting to Islam, had the Muslim majority regions seceded, thats why they did not support Pakistan. But the truth is that there would have been a big civil war.

bhai pyaray bhai..whatever they thought but the fact remains they were against it and they even went as far as calling Quad-e-Azam and Allama Iqbal as kafirs. Even then Maulana Maudoodi later shifted to Pakistan and you know what the father Fazlur-Rehman said about Pakistan? but Dr Israr was really good, Now most of deobandi scholars in Pakistan are sincere and loyal but some are still supporting the terrorists.

Honestly I think they find themselves in a difficult place. The opposition party which is the more moderate party is weak, the Muslim community is spread quite widely across the country.

If it was me, I'd be getting myself a firearms licence and plenty of ammunition. If it comes to communal violence, good intentions and morals won't protect you and your family. They probably ought to organise neighbourhood watches, and make sure all the local young men and women are armed and trained to use weapons (if it is legal to do so).

I think they also need to align themselves with more moderate voices across Indian society. The problem is, Congress will now be looking to step away from Muslims to try and attract the right wing vote.



Bhai, forget old news. People in history have political strategies, some fail, some don't. Plenty of deobandi are Pakistani, plenty of barelvi are Indian - so what? We are human, we are Muslim, we are sunni, we are hanafi. The small divides of molvis should not get in between us.

Zakir Naik is Salafi/wahhabi as far as i know. He is defintely not shia.

Bhai when we talk with each other, only then we learn...the matter of the truth is that I don't know into depth what the difference between Barelvis and Deobandis, I thought the scholars who got support from Congress and were against the creation of Pakistan were Deobandis while Barelvis are the ones who supported the creation of Pakistan. While Shia's have issues with Ahle-hadeeth or wahabis so.. but the word Zakir is used for scholars of shia...but all are respectable.. except who talk against the creation of Pakistan..

 

[MultaniGuy]

bhai pyaray bhai..whatever they thought but the fact remains they were against it and they even went as far as calling Quad-e-Azam and Allama Iqbal as kafirs. Even then Maulana Maudoodi later shifted to Pakistan and you know what the father Fazlur-Rehman said about Pakistan? but Dr Israr was really good, Now most of deobandi scholars in Pakistan are sincere and loyal but some are still supporting the terrorists.

Yes Dr. Israr Ahmed said good things about Pakistan movement and said he would have still supported it. Yes, some scholars were for Pakistan and some weren't like Maududi and Abul Kalam Azad.

That is just their opinion though.

 

[war&peace]

Yes Dr. Israr Ahmed said good things about Pakistan movement and said he would have still supported it. Yes, some scholars were for Pakistan and some weren't like Maududi and Abul Kalam Azad.

That is just their opinion though.

Also late Dr Ghulam Murtaza Malik was good...

 

[hussain0216]

Its why I said the only way out of indian muslims

Is to congregate in large numbers

In areas and states where they can form big blocks

Where they are small minorities they will be attacked

 

[El Sidd]

Its why I said the only way out of indian muslims

Is to congregate in large numbers

In areas and states where they can form big blocks

Where they are small minorities they will be attacked

I think its called a ghetto? And they have it.

Its natural instinct to form a mob in a country where everyone is a Minority.

I like how El Sidd says it. India is a mob masquerading as a Nation.

but the word Zakir

The word Zakir comes from Zikr.

Its english translation would be an orator.

Why dont you start at the Basics before indulging any deeper?

 

[war&peace]

The word Zakir comes from Zikr.

Its english translation would be an orator.

Why dont you start at the Basics before indulging any deeper?

Okay troll jeee

 

[Slav Defence]

Please avoid dragging in China-your level of utter ignorance about Islam shows how your sanctimonious bigoted views are no different than any bhakt.

@war&peace just report his off topic derailment and move on instead of engaging in slander, your last warning reflected this as well.


Suggest you avoid dragging in family like a smart alec on a self aggrandizing trip. You could also ignore but we all know a “meesna” when we see one.
Banned from thread.


This is their forum, you come to this forum as a guest of Pakistanis- we can be bothered and discuss with whatever we want on our forum and you have no say in it.

You all heard Oscar, loud and clear.Stick to the topic or else we will be taking serious measures.Then do not open up separate threads.We will not "explain" you anything.
Edit your post by yourselves.

Regards

 

[Nilu Pule]

The partition was incomplete.

Muslims got more than everyone else.


Growing Muslim population is a threat to India. I hope Muslim have more babies and illegal migration from Bangladesh increases. Then there will be no India.

@Panzerfaust 3 @aman_rai

 

[django]

I am somewhat amused you brought up Dr. Zakir Naik. Isn't he the man who had his Indian citizenship revoked and is seeking asylum in Malaysia.

He is a nice guy, but he is unrealistic. Partition was the right thing to do.

The Indian National Congress showed their true face by rejecting the Cabinet Mission Plan.

Anyways good riddance to India, otherwise we would have ended up being a poor trash hole.

Yet expects us folk to live under RSS rule, he is a hypocrite of the highest order, besides I do not like some of his views on Yazeed but that is a story for another day.Kudos yaar

 

[SQ8]

bhai pyaray bhai..whatever they thought but the fact remains they were against it and they even went as far as calling Quad-e-Azam and Allama Iqbal as kafirs. Even then Maulana Maudoodi later shifted to Pakistan and you know what the father Fazlur-Rehman said about Pakistan? but Dr Israr was really good, Now most of deobandi scholars in Pakistan are sincere and loyal but some are still supporting the terrorists.


Bhai when we talk with each other, only then we learn...the matter of the truth is that I don't know into depth what the difference between Barelvis and Deobandis, I thought the scholars who got support from Congress and were against the creation of Pakistan were Deobandis while Barelvis are the ones who supported the creation of Pakistan. While Shia's have issues with Ahle-hadeeth or wahabis so.. but the word Zakir is used for scholars of shia...but all are respectable.. except who talk against the creation of Pakistan..

The problem with all religious “scholars” is that many of them arent. Most infact; keeping an uncouth beard and wearing a cap does not make you a scholar. Fazlur rehman is not one, in the days where Islam was led by the most informed and educated- the hierarchy of knowledge was Aalims and then Muftis at the bottom.. Diesel in not even a Mufti yet most of his party would suddenly command respect because of how they look and not what they know.

If today we have a doctor graduate from the Mingolpura medical university which has ten rooms we are afraid of the doctor but we cannot apply the same principles to religious leadership?

Pre partition India has two main Muslim university’s( combined learning centers), deoband was a madressa for ONLY deobandi thought. Places like Aligarh and Osmania University were true places for Islamic studies and learning... how can a place where just one repeated line of thought is taughy be superior to a place where all ideas and thoughts are combined and analyzed for a result?

Today, Jamia Binoria is just with one school of thought.. University of Karachi with faculty from five different schools of thought is inherently going to be superior.
The same goes for Al-Azhar in Cairo versus Makkah University, Al-Azhar is not regulated like Makkah University and is going to have superior learning.

So coming to leadership, is zakir naik going to be superior or a reputable university department?

Unfortunately religion is one place where we mix faraiz with nasiyat. Nothing in the Quran, the final authority on Sharia and knowledge compels us to listen to any scholar for guidance - that is entirely up to our own judgement and character to choose.
And therin lies the problem with all religions, judgement and character may be built upto a certain age carefully- but once solidifed upon whatever foundation one has by birth, it becomes the drive for understanding life.

An inheritantly violent person will see war against infidels everywhere despite both Quran and seerat giving a different context, just as a inherently kind person will see mercy and forgiveness everywhere as reflected in the character of both Allah and Rasool.

There was nothing to indicate that Pakistan was to be founded by some prophet or pure man, the work had to be done and the right person at the right time was chosen to do it. Maulana Azad or Maududi could oppose all they want, kun fayakun.

 

[django]

@Iqbal Ali @django @Reichsmarschall @313ghazi

What should be the course of action for Muslims of India to counter this onslaught against their religion and culture?

Make Jinnahpur in Hyderbad, all of them need to mobilize for this objective, especially those feeble folk of UP, respect cannot be demanded but commanded.Kudos bhai.......BTW these folks could not give a rats *** off for us, at times I feel very little pity for them, I still recall with horror watching deoband Madarasa burn Pak flag, Kudos bhai

 

[SQ8]

Make Jinnahpur in Hyderbad, all of them need to mobilize for this objective, especially those feeble folk of UP, respect cannot be demanded but commanded.Kudos bhai.......BTW these folks could not give a rats *** off for us, at times I feel very little pity for them, I still recall with horror watching deoband Madarasa burn Pak flag, Kudos bhai

Pakistan MUST not have ANYTHING to do with Indian muslim angst. Ham idhar, tum udhar.


BUT
We must do all we can do to encourage it, support it, arm it and feed it without getting “involved”.

 

[war&peace]

The problem with all religious “scholars” is that many of them arent. Most infact; keeping an uncouth beard and wearing a cap does not make you a scholar. Fazlur rehman is not one, in the days where Islam was led by the most informed and educated- the hierarchy of knowledge was Aalims and then Muftis at the bottom.. Diesel in not even a Mufti yet most of his party would suddenly command respect because of how they look and not what they know.

If today we have a doctor graduate from the Mingolpura medical university which has ten rooms we are afraid of the doctor but we cannot apply the same principles to religious leadership?

Pre partition India has two main Muslim university’s( combined learning centers), deoband was a madressa for ONLY deobandi thought. Places like Aligarh and Osmania University were true places for Islamic studies and learning... how can a place where just one repeated line of thought is taughy be superior to a place where all ideas and thoughts are combined and analyzed for a result?

Today, Jamia Binoria is just with one school of thought.. University of Karachi with faculty from five different schools of thought is inherently going to be superior.
The same goes for Al-Azhar in Cairo versus Makkah University, Al-Azhar is not regulated like Makkah University and is going to have superior learning.

So coming to leadership, is zakir naik going to be superior or a reputable university department?

Unfortunately religion is one place where we mix faraiz with nasiyat. Nothing in the Quran, the final authority on Sharia and knowledge compels us to listen to any scholar for guidance - that is entirely up to our own judgement and character to choose.
And therin lies the problem with all religions, judgement and character may be built upto a certain age carefully- but once solidifed upon whatever foundation one has by birth, it becomes the drive for understanding life.

An inheritantly violent person will see war against infidels everywhere despite both Quran and seerat giving a different context, just as a inherently kind person will see mercy and forgiveness everywhere as reflected in the character of both Allah and Rasool.

There was nothing to indicate that Pakistan was to be founded by some prophet or pure man, the work had to be done and the right person at the right time was chosen to do it. Maulana Azad or Maududi could oppose all they want, kun fayakun.

Sir, I could like this post a thousand times, I would have done that. In fact, the true religious scholars of the highest eminence were multi-talented people who knew history, politics and in depth knowledge of the language and understanding of the metaphorical language that the Holy Quran uses. It takes a lot of wisdom to understand the wisdom of the Almighty....and definitely a scholar has to be able to understand not only different schools of thoughts but also different cultures. A scholar must understand the western culture as well and not learned through a watching hollywood movies rather living in Europe and interacting with people and also excelling at Europe's history and that I put Allama Iqbal at a much higher level than the highest of his contemporaries. In modern day, I see Sh. Imran Hossain, who has not only lived in USA and west but also acquired education from some the most prestigious schools of economy at Geneva and also worked for govt of Australia in foreign ministry...so he has a deep knowledge of the contemporary world, he is well read and reads a lots of very high standard books written by some of the best historians and professors on civilisation ... an academic ... so he is able to understand the true Islam and interpret according to the modern world.

Yet expects us folk to live under RSS rule, he is a hypocrite of the highest order, besides I do not like some of his views on Yazeed but that is a story for another day.Kudos yaar

Yazeed was the most lanati character in the entire history of Islam...

 

[django]

BUT
We must do all we can do to encourage it, support it, arm it and feed it without getting “involved”.

Their is indeed a fire brewing their, we need to throw as much gasoline as possible, I am sure markhors are on to it.Kudos Sir

Yazeed was the most lanati character in the entire history is Islam...

No ifs or buts about it, he was the epitome of corruption.Kudos bro

 

[war&peace]

Pakistan MUST not have ANYTHING to do with Indian muslim angst. Ham idhar, tum udhar.
s

BUT
We must do all we can do to encourage it, support it, arm it and feed it without getting “involved”.

What I understand is that our men never get involved and that is how it should be..we just support them but we ourselves stay away...

No ifs or buts about it, he was the epitome of corruption.Kudos br

He was not only morally corrupt but he killed the family of the Prophet (peace be upon him and his family)

Their is indeed a fire brewing their, we need to throw as much gasoline as possible, I am sure markhors are on to it.Kudos Sir

I think the dynamics of fire...like how to make the coals burn you need to add a lot of kerosene but