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India Military Eyes Combined Threat

Suddenly i'm picturing India as the Israel of South Asia, despite its vast size.

Yes, both India and Israel, have vast Muslim minority populations that are growing much faster than the national average, as well as being surrounded by Muslim majority nations.

Both of them will eventually be Muslim majority as well. As they say, demographics is destiny.
 
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Yes, both India and Israel, have vast Muslim minority populations that are growing much faster than the national average, as well as being surrounded by Muslim majority nations.

Both of them will eventually be Muslim majority as well. As they say, demographics is destiny.

Maybe from your experience, but not ours.
 
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Yes, both India and Israel, have vast Muslim minority populations that are growing much faster than the national average, as well as being surrounded by Muslim majority nations.

Both of them will eventually be Muslim majority as well. As they say, demographics is destiny.

We have no problems being a Muslim majority state ..because we are a secular country ..religious majority matters little.
 
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We have no problems being a Muslim majority state ..because we are a secular country ..religious majority matters little.

Well then I guess we agree. :D

Except that Muslim majority nations usually end up having a form of Islamic governance.
 
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Well then I guess we agree. :D

Except that Muslim majority nations usually end up having a form of Islamic governance.

Your attempt to demonize Indian Muslims are in vain.

We know our people..they are not a radical bunch...they believe in secular ideals of this nation..that is why chose to stay here even when they had the opportunity to migrate to neighboring country and enjoy the "Islamic governance".
 
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Your attempt to demonize Indian Muslims are in vain.

We know our people..they are not a radical bunch...they believe in secular ideals of this nation..that is why chose to stay here even when they had the opportunity to migrate to neighboring country and enjoy the "Islamic governance".

Actually, I would prefer an Islamic India ten thousand times more than the current one. :lol:

We generally get along well with Muslim majority nations.
 
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Contours of a Possible Indian Riposte to Chinese Aggressiveness

Lalit Kumar

IDSA - January 17, 2011

It is being prophesied that conflict with China is imminent and could come as soon as 2012-2014,
and that such a conflict could quickly erupt into an all-out war in which India would be thoroughly
outclassed and outnumbered leading to a massive defeat. Such a scenario is, however, unlikely to
unfold for several reasons. Firstly, the Chinese are inadequately equipped at this time to gain an
asymmetric advantage for prosecuting an all out war. They are also likely to be disinclined to
pursue such an option for political and economic reasons, given that their priorities for the foreseeable
future is economic development, coping with the effects of the global recession and ensuring the
smooth transition to a new generation of leaders in 2012. Further, the Chinese at this point in time
are quite vulnerable on several grounds. After assessing the weaknesses and gaps in Chinese
capabilities and highlighting the positions of advantage that India enjoys, this essay proposes a
strategy for a strong riposte against any Chinese adventurism.

http://www.idsa.in/system/files/PB_ChineseAggressiveness.pdf

---------- Post added at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 AM ----------

China ups the ante in Arunachal Pradesh

Namrata Goswami

IDSA - January 17, 2012

China has upped the ante against India once again vis-à-vis its territorial claim on the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh. In early January, China denied visa to Group Captain Mohonto Panging, a senior Indian Air force officer hailing from Arunachal Pradesh, who was to be part of a 30 member Integrated Defence team travelling to China under a bilateral defence exchange programme. Ironically, the visit, starting January 10, was meant to be a Confidence Building Exercise and an offshoot of the Annual Defence Dialogue. India did not cancel the visit per se but instead sent a truncated 15 member military delegation that did not include Mohonto Panging.

It must be noted that this is not the first time that China has signalled its territorial claim on Arunachal Pradesh by denying visa to an Indian citizen from the state. In May 2007, China denied visa to Ganesh Koyu, an Indian Administrative Service (IAS) officer from Arunachal Pradesh, who was to be a part of a 107 member IAS officer study visit to Beijing and Shanghai. China pointed out that Koyu is a Chinese citizen since he belongs to Arunachal Pradesh and hence could visit China without a visa! The same logic appears to have motivated the Chinese action this time around as well.

It is disturbing that China’s increasingly assertive posture on Arunachal Pradesh is being carried out against the backdrop of its increased militarization in Tibet. According to a 2010 US Department of Defense report, China has replaced its old liquid fuelled, nuclear capable CSS-3 intermediate range ballistic missile with “more advanced CSS-5 MRBMs” and has vastly improved its border roads in the eastern sector bordering India, which will considerably enhance PLA movement. Intercontinental missiles such as the DF-31 and DF-31A have also been deployed by China at Delingha, north of Tibet. On the border with India, China has deployed 13 Border Defence Regiments totalling around 300,000 troops. Airfields have also been established at Hoping, Pangta and Kong Ka, which are in addition to the existing six airfields in the Tibetan Autonomous Region, for supporting fighter aircraft and enhance the PLA’s airlift capability.

In response, India has upgraded its own military presence in the eastern sector by its decision to deploy the 290 km-range Brahmos supersonic cruise missile in order to strengthen its defence posture vis-à-vis China there. A five year expansion plan to induct 90,000 more troops and deploy four more divisions in the eastern sector is also underway. Already, there are 120,000 Indian troops stationed in the eastern sector, supported by two Sukhoi 30 MKI squadrons from Tezpur in Assam (See Figure I).

In an article in the PLA Daily last year, China had expressed concern about this Indian military upgrade in the eastern sector viewing it as directed at China. If that be indeed the case, refusing a visa to an Indian Air Force officer from Arunachal Pradesh, while aimed at scoring a political point with India, creates obstacles towards the very confidence-building that China hopes to see in the eastern sector.

It is to be noted that the India-China territorial dispute in the eastern sector had led to a border war in 1962 which resulted in India’s defeat by China. The memories of that defeat continue to linger in the psyche of the Indian military establishment. While both countries have avoided a conflict since then, the cause of that border war – a disputed 1,080km border and China’s territorial claim on Arunachal Pradesh – stands unresolved.

Military-Position.EasternSe.jpg


Many strategic analysts argue that the Chinese claim on Arunachal Pradesh coupled with the unresolved eastern border could result in a future conflict between India and China. Such a scenario is, however, unlikely for three fundamental reasons. First, China and India are nuclear weapon states with 340 nuclear weapons between them (China with 240 and India with 100). Nuclear deterrence will play a critical role in averting all out war. Second, leaders of both countries would be cautious about any “war talk” due to the physical proximity between the two countries and realise that the consequences of any war would be tragic for both. Third, even conventional land warfare between India and China would be difficult due to the high mountainous landscape. The only caveat here is the possibility of aerial warfare, but nuclear weapons’ deterrence dynamics will play a role here as well.

To be sure, one of the main irritants in India-China relations, and closely tied to China’s territorial claim on Arunachal Pradesh, is the presence of the Dalai Lama and the “Tibetan government-in-exile” in India. The Tawang monastery in Arunachal Pradesh was the birthplace of the sixth Dalai Lama in the 17th century and is the second largest Tibetan monastery after the one in Lhasa. It could well be that the 14th Dalai Lama may choose his successor from the Tawang monastery. If this were to happen, the international questioning of China’s legitimacy over Tibet will continue. Consequently, China perhaps believes that its aggressive posture on Arunachal Pradesh will deter India from overplaying its Tibet card, which includes 120,000 Tibetan refugees living in India.

If the Dalai Lama factor is indeed propelling China’s recent posture on Arunachal Pradesh, it has all the makings of becoming a self fulfilling prophesy. It is well known that India provided asylum to the Dalai Lama in 1959 for purely moral reasons and has consistently expressed its recognition of Tibet as part of China. Yet, it appears that China suspects that there is some diabolical Indian plan to use the Dalai Lama to undermine China. As a result, it has turned aggressive on Arunachal Pradesh. This in turn has led some Indian strategic analysts to argue that India should develop the Dalai Lama card to counter China. Thus, the situation has the potential to come full circle.

It is however important for the peace and prosperity of both India and China that they do not descend into such a negative dynamic. It is in the interest of both countries that the 2005 India-China framework agreement is the most viable framework to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the territorial dispute.

China ups the ante in Arunachal Pradesh | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
 
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Actually, I would prefer an Islamic India ten thousand times more than the current one. :lol:

We generally get along well with Muslim majority nations.

Why wouldn't you??

But question why don't you practice, what you preach ..if you enjoy being in the company Islamic nations ..why don't you become one of them... convert to Islam and then declare yourself as Islamic republic of China?
Believe me there is nothing wrong in being one!!
 
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Visit of Pakistan Army Chief to China

Mandip Singh

IDSA - January 17, 2012

“Chin-Pak dosti zandabad!” – this closing remark by Liu Jian, in an article in the Pakistan daily `The Nation` on January 10, 2011, is a telling statement about China-Pakistan relations during the past year. That the new year began with the third visit of General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani to China on the invitation of the Chinese leadership from January 5-10, 2012 is in itself very significant. Coming as it did at a time when Pakistan is passing through a critical phase in its relations with the US over the war in Afghanistan and a troubled relationship with the political leadership back home, lends the visit great importance in Sino-Pak relations. A security official reportedly said that during this visit, `we want to take the relationship to the next level`, indicating that Sino-Pak relations were moving towards a new phase. During his visit, Pakistan’s Chief of Army Staff (COAS) met the Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, the Chinese Defence Minister Liang Guanglie, the PLA Chief of General Staff Gen. Chen Bingde, State Councillor and key diplomat Dai Bingguo, and Chen Qiufa, the Chief Administrator of State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence (SASTIND).

While the official communiqué of the visit spoke of the usual strengthening of friendship and `all weather relationship` between the two nations, some issues are noteworthy. The Chinese leadership was careful about not going overboard with the visit, keeping in view its relationship with the civilian government in Pakistan. At a time when the internal situation in Pakistan itself is in turmoil, with the Army and Gilani at loggerheads, China was careful not to be seen taking sides.1 This was evident from the fact that Kayani did not meet the Chinese President during this visit. The Chinese Premier Wen said "China will consistently support Pakistan's efforts to safeguard its sovereignty and territorial integrity, as well as back the country's economic growth and improvement of its people's livelihoods." He also added that “Pakistan Armed Forces have made an important contribution towards maintaining bilateral relations and boosting Pak-China strategic cooperation”, underlining the fact that China feels comfortable dealing with the Pakistan military and recognises the latter’s relevance in Sino-Pak relations.

During a media briefing after Kayani’s visit, Hong Lei, the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, said that both countries had reached agreements in defence security, military drills (read exercises), personnel training (read courses of instruction), college exchanges (read military exchanges programmes in academies/schools of instruction), equipment construction (possibly R&D) and non-traditional security.

The key issue of discussion on defence security is likely to have been Afghanistan post-US withdrawal in 2014, a fact mentioned by the Associated Press of Pakistan as `of core interest to Pakistan`. Kayani is reported to have said: “If Afghanistan is peaceful and stable; Pakistan will be the biggest beneficiary.” It may be recalled that Pakistan-US relations reached a nadir on November 26 after US gunships killed 24 Pakistani soldiers and injured several others in what is now called as the `Salala incident`. That resulted in the stoppage of US supplies through Pakistan to the ISAF, the US evacuation of Shamsi airbase and calls for a review of the rules of engagement (ROE) with the ISAF. On its part, the US has blocked the tranche of $800 million aid to Pakistan. The latest in the downslide has been the rejection by Pakistan of the US report (prepared by Brigadier General Stephen Clark) on the Salala incident stating it to be `short on facts`. Instead, Pakistan has demanded an apology from Obama.2

On the other hand, China has slowly increased its footprints in the region. With mining contracts for copper worth $3 billion, oil exploration in North Afghanistan of eight million barrels and at least 40 other contracts worth $500 million, China has acquired huge economic interests in Afghanistan. Naturally, China would be a major player in filling the void left by the US in the region. Even in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (***), China has taken up major construction contracts to build dams, bridges and roads including the strategic Karakoram Highway. It would be reasonable to assume that Kayani is likely to have garnered adequate support and assistance for Pakistan from China in the event of the US closing the tap on aid and equipment including spares. Last year, Chinese military assistance to Pakistan was estimated at $84 million, which is likely to increase in the coming years. More importantly, India must be prepared to see a change in China’s stance on Jammu and Kashmir in the future - a fact that has already been demonstrated by China when it did a volte-face by terming it as ‘disputed’ from a hither-to-fore neutral stance.

The other issue of defence security is the Gwadar port and the Karakoram Highway (KKH). The KKH has been under repair jointly by Chinese and Pakistani military personnel since January 2010 after huge landslides wiped off 25-30 kilometres of the highway near Attabad. Further, the possibility of China setting up a military base in Pakistan has been covered in the Pakistan press quoting a report by Xinhua that: “China’s deepening strategic penetration of Pakistan and joint plans to set up oil pipelines/rail/roads and naval and military bases are a matter of concern.” The paper also acknowledged that: “China’s desire for a military presence in Pakistan has been discussed by the political and military leadership of that country in recent months.”3 China has actively aided Pakistan in developing the Karakoram corridor, a road network cum oil pipeline, which extends from the Gwadar port along the Indus- Karakoram highway to Xinjiang province. Besides, China has funded the construction of the Gwadar port. This provides China an alternative energy supply route and access to the Indian Ocean for trade. In this context, China may be seeking to set up a military presence in Pakistan to secure its assets and trade routes in that country.4

There has been a marked increase in officers and NCOs attending courses of instruction in China vis-à-vis those doing so in the US. Kayani’s visit would have only helped increase the utilisation of vacancies in PLA institutions by the Pakistan Army.5 However, of interest is the meeting of the Chief administrator of SASTIND with Kayani. SASTIND plays an important role in regulating Chinese exports of sensitive military items and has the responsibility for vetting China's conventional military exports, including missile-related exports. One of its primary responsibilities is to research future weapon systems, scientific development of dual-use systems, and managing the exports of developed weaponry.6 SASTIND works closely with both the Ministry of Commerce and the China Atomic Energy Authority (CAEA), SASTIND’s bureaucratic subordinate. It would be prudent to assume that General Kayani would have reviewed progress of ongoing military projects including sensitive missile projects during his meeting with the SASTIND team. Details of such projects are however, not known.

Insofar as non-traditional threats are concerned, in recent times, China has expressed concerns over growing Muslim separatism and training of Uighur fighters in Pakistan who routinely cross over into Xinjiang Autonomous Region. An official Xinhua commentary last September warned: ‘If violent forces in Xinjiang gain ground, China may be forced to directly intervene militarily in Pakistan and Afghanistan, but this is clearly not the situation China would like to see.’7 Last year, the DG ISI had to dash off to China to reassure the Chinese leadership that Pakistan would do everything possible to dismantle these camps and prevent the movement of Uighur separatists into XUAR. In November, Pakistan and China held a joint exercise at the Brigade level for the first time in counter terrorism, indicating China`s concern at the growing problem. The fact that the Pakistani Army Chief himself attended the exercise indicates its importance. Interestingly, the exercise practiced transportation of PLA Special Forces directly into a terrorist area from the mainland, a manoeuvre that highlights their capability of transportation and direct intervention in alien territory.

To conclude, the visit of General Kayani is likely to have established a larger role for China in the affairs of the ****** region. The effect of Pakistan’s worsening relations with the US and the cut in aid is bound to drive Pakistan towards its `all weather friend` China. Besides, we should be witnessing a spike in military-to-military exchanges, more joint exercises, increased military aid in terms of equipment and material and more educational exchanges between the two militaries. India will need to factor the growing PLA presence in and around Pakistan and be prepared to engage an increasingly confident Pakistan propped by Chinese support and driven by Chinese interests in the region.

Visit of Pakistan Army Chief to China | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
 
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Why wouldn't you??

But question why don't you practice, what you preach ..if you enjoy being in the company Islamic nations ..why don't you become one of them... convert to Islam and then declare yourself as Islamic republic of China?
Believe me there is nothing wrong in being one!!

I guess in cultural terms we tend to go for more atheistic belief systems. Nowadays we are mostly a non-religious country.

India has the 3rd largest population of Muslims in the world, and the rest is mostly Hindus. Whereas in China, even all the Ughyurs and Tibetans combined make up less than 1% of the population.
 
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I guess in cultural terms we tend to go for more atheistic belief systems. Nowadays we are mostly a non-religious country.

India has the 3rd largest population of Muslims in the world, and the rest is mostly Hindus. Whereas in China, even all the Ughyurs and Tibetans combined make up less than 1% of the population.

So basically you mean ..you guys are only good for lip service??.. only get to enjoy the company of internet Muslims not real ones?
 
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So basically you mean ..you guys are only good for lip service??.. only get to enjoy the company of internet Muslims not real ones?

LOL, internet Muslims? :lol:

Several of my friends are Muslim. And our relationships with countries like Pakistan/Iran/Saudi have nothing to do with the internet.
 
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LOL, internet Muslims? :lol:

Several of my friends are Muslim. And our relationships with countries like Pakistan/Iran/Saudi have nothing to do with the internet.

Then you should have no problems ..become one, yourself....you seem to like Muslim governance and Muslim way of life..why not istead of being people with no religion ..become a part of what you like and convert and make People' s republic of China into Islamic republic China?

Is there something wrong in it?
 
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Then you should have no problems ..become one, yourself....you seem to like Muslim governance and Muslim way of life..why not istead of being people with no religion ..become a part of what you like and convert and make People' s republic of China into Islamic republic China?

Is there something wrong in it?

China has 10 million Hui Muslims ethically related to Hans, if CD wants to Convert let him otherwise no reason to force people to, one can like ones religion and values without converting. Islamic Republic of China ? China has at max 30-40 million Muslims and almost all prefer a secular state rather then religious. noting wrong with an Islamic republic of China but the problem is most prefer the Peoples republic :azn:
 
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