India may reconsider $20 billion French Rafale jet deal in favor of Russia

[C130]

Came up with that number with Gut estimate.

Anyway i have calculated it now and cost of 126 Rafales is coming out to be $9.5 billion.

Modern aircraft flyaway costs « Defense Issues

I was about to say damn for 5 to 7 billions I'd buy 200 Rafales with no ToT.

 

[vayuu1]

I was about to say damn for 5 to 7 billions I'd buy 200 Rafales with no ToT.

Then what's the point if u don't get TOT, india, needs critical technologies like IRST, single blade crystal technology, knowledge in metallurgy, not to forget a more mature aesa radar tech for indigenous platforms like AMCA.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Dassault is playing a very risky game. They could lose the entire contract.

Everyone knew India wanted the ToT, and they wanted to make in India.

 

[vayuu1]

Dassault is playing a very risky game. They could lose the entire contract.

Everyone knew India wanted the ToT, and they wanted to make in India.

Bro what do you think, would be india's plan in case the deal is cancelled, barring su30mki.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Bro what do you think, would be india's plan in case the deal is cancelled, barring su30mki.

There is no other option other than MKIs. The defence minsters said recently that there's no going back to the other contenders. It's either Rafale or upgraded MKIs.

Dassault should be careful, because this is a new defence minster and government. They can lose it all if the original terms arent met.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

If this deal falls thru----then there is a hint that india was never serious in buying this aircraft---it just wanted to sabotage Pakistan's relationship with france---picked up this aircraft and kept france on a hummer---.

There is no reason for this deal to have lingered for as long as it has. If the French have increased the price---that is understandable----. And as they were not giving warranty on aircrafts manufactured at HAL---that is also understandable.

India is concerned and there are too many options open on the table---to please one---it makes the other party unhappy---. It can alienate any one but Russia. So---it is like being in between a rock and a hard place.

Stephen Cohen---please do not bother to reply---all other members are welcome

 

[Maravan]

Hi,

If this deal falls thru----then there is a hint that india was never serious in buying this aircraft---it just wanted to sabotage Pakistan's relationship with france---picked up this aircraft and kept france on a hummer---.

There is no reason for this deal to have lingered for as long as it has. If the French have increased the price---that is understandable----. And as they were not giving warranty on aircrafts manufactured at HAL---that is also understandable.

India is concerned and there are too many options open on the table---to please one---it makes the other party unhappy---. It can alienate any one but Russia. So---it is like being in between a rock and a hard place.

Stephen Cohen---please do not bother to reply---all other members are welcome

How it's acceptable sir? if they dont want to guarantee the fighters built in india. That's also a part of RFP, if they don't want to guarantee they shouldn't have participated in the tender at all...

 

[$@rJen]

Hi,

If this deal falls thru----then there is a hint that india was never serious in buying this aircraft---it just wanted to sabotage Pakistan's relationship with france---picked up this aircraft and kept france on a hummer---.

There is no reason for this deal to have lingered for as long as it has. If the French have increased the price---that is understandable----. And as they were not giving warranty on aircrafts manufactured at HAL---that is also understandable.

India is concerned and there are too many options open on the table---to please one---it makes the other party unhappy---. It can alienate any one but Russia. So---it is like being in between a rock and a hard place.

Stephen Cohen---please do not bother to reply---all other members are welcome

We were very serious untill french Hijacked the Original RFP and hiked the price..and dude if we dropped this deal we our self sabotaged our relationship with the french. the reason was... wait i'll provide a link and please read it.. you'll know the truth, how these french bastards tried to milk us

pleas read it

Parrikar not a easy person to deal with-RFP deviation strengthen French negotiators on MMRCA

 

[nik22]

Hi,

If this deal falls thru----then there is a hint that india was never serious in buying this aircraft---it just wanted to sabotage Pakistan's relationship with france---picked up this aircraft and kept france on a hummer---.

There is no reason for this deal to have lingered for as long as it has. If the French have increased the price---that is understandable----. And as they were not giving warranty on aircrafts manufactured at HAL---that is also understandable.

India is concerned and there are too many options open on the table---to please one---it makes the other party unhappy---. It can alienate any one but Russia. So---it is like being in between a rock and a hard place.

Stephen Cohen---please do not bother to reply---all other members are welcome

Sir, you are stressing your mind. There is no Pakistan angle. If India was not serious, as you say and deal falls through, France would be more than willing to arm Pakistan. Even if deal goes through, France should not have any issue. You show them the money, they will come after you.

You show lot of understanding for French. Please show some consideration for India as well

 

[Bang Galore]

French officials to visit India to rescue stalled Rafale jet deal

(Reuters) - A French delegation will visit New Delhi this month to salvage an agreement to supply 126 Rafale fighter jets to the Indian Air Force that has hit a snag over the local assembly of the planes, threatening to derail one of the world's biggest defence deals.

India is insisting that France's Dassault Aviation take full responsibility for the production of the aircraft at a state-run facility in Bangalore under the 2012 bid offer, Indian defence ministry officials said.

France has said it will help Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd stick to delivery schedules, but that it cannot give guarantees for production of the aircraft made at a facility over which it has no administrative or expert control.

Military experts say the deal could cost India $20 billion, double the original estimate, because of the benchmarking of aircraft prices and a roughly 5 percent annual cost increase.

The Rafale fighter beat the Swedish Gripen, the Russian MiG-35, and the U.S.-built F-18 and F-16 and finally the Eurofighter in a decade-long selection process for a new Indian multi-role combat aircraft, as Dassault was the lowest bidder on up-front and lifecycle costs over 40 years.

But three years on, the sides are far from signing the contract and an Indian defence source said price negotiations were on hold until the issue of licensed production was resolved in line with the original request for proposals (RFP) floated by the Indian defence ministry.

"We are saying that the RFP has to be honoured totally, there can't be deviations," said the source.

"Once the RFP aspects are done, only then can we sit down for price negotiations," the source added.

An "empowered" delegation from France, with the authority to make decisions on key points rather than refer them back to Paris, is expected to arrive shortly to work on the disputed issues, according to the source.

Dassault and the French defence ministry were not immediately available for comment.

For the French, the deal would be a major boost for domestic defence manufacturing, with the first 18 Rafale planes built in France and the remaining 108 produced in India.

For the Indian Air Force, the planes are critical to arrest a decline in its operational preparedness, already down to 25 active fighter squadrons compared with a government approved strength of 42.

Half of the operational fleet is Mig-21 and MiG-27 planes due to retire beginning this year until 2024, a parliamentary defence committee said in a report last month, stressing the need for an early induction of new combat planes.

"The credibility of India (as an arms buyer) is already pretty shaky and it's going to get shakier (if they cancel the Rafale deal)," said Rahul Bedi, a defence analyst at IHS Jane's.

"It would be a big blow to the armed forces. The armed forces have been banking on the Rafale for a long time. They have said there is no plan B."

French officials to visit India to rescue stalled Rafale jet deal| Reuters

 

[MastanKhan]

Maravan / Sarjenprabhu,

When india made the deal with France---they already knew with whom they were dealing with----French are no surprise in their dealings---the problem that I see is that time was india's enemy in this deal. The time lapse has given opportunity to others to plant the seeds of doubt and in this case the indian state has been its own worst enemy.

The rafale deal at this time may not be the best deal for IAF---. China has taken a surprising leap in aircraft technology and what maybe available to PAF in the next 3 to 5 years maybe more concerning to IAF than what Rafale brings to the table.

 

[Kinetic]

^^^ The deal will go through anyway. These are usual rants before the final negotiation.

 

[Storm Force]

Rafale is the best combat plane in the world bar raptor of USA.

China so called big leap will not materlise for another decade.

In that that time Hal will have closed su30mki production and moved to Fgfa .

So no issues or worries there

 

[$@rJen]

Maravan / Sarjenprabhu,

When india made the deal with France---they already knew with whom they were dealing with----French are no surprise in their dealings---the problem that I see is that time was india's enemy in this deal. The time lapse has given opportunity to others to plant the seeds of doubt and in this case the indian state has been its own worst enemy.

The rafale deal at this time may not be the best deal for IAF---. China has taken a surprising leap in aircraft technology and what maybe available to PAF in the next 3 to 5 years maybe more concerning to IAF than what Rafale brings to the table.

More than time our big enemy was the UPA government and its fucked up DM Antony.

Rafale is not going anywhere.. Parrikar is doing a good job so far, only we'll know if things go smooth when french officials arrive.

Chinese so far don't have anything best to counter IAF.. they're only ahead of us in Quantity. and their 5th Gen is going be inducted and mass produced by 19 unlike wiki claims and only when some of their requirements are filled they would provide to PAF and that's a big IF because of the funds. If Rafale go through in IAF then first PAF would be scratching on how to counter that.. and by the time PLAF induct we also will be gettting our 5th Gen fighters PAK-fa and later FGFA

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

If this deal falls thru----then there is a hint that india was never serious in buying this aircraft---it just wanted to sabotage Pakistan's relationship with france---picked up this aircraft and kept france on a hummer---.

There is no reason for this deal to have lingered for as long as it has. If the French have increased the price---that is understandable----. And as they were not giving warranty on aircrafts manufactured at HAL---that is also understandable.

India is concerned and there are too many options open on the table---to please one---it makes the other party unhappy---. It can alienate any one but Russia. So---it is like being in between a rock and a hard place.

Stephen Cohen---please do not bother to reply---all other members are welcome

The price has escalated not because of the time factor but rather that Dassault is offering the newer Rafale F3 version......which means more capability....since even if the deal is signed it wont be until 3 years that first squadron strength jets are delivered.

French should have gone with JF-17 avionics.....would've made 1-2 billion USD on a whim.

I am not sure if India would cancel the deal, maybe force Dassault to offer the old version with old price or maybe cut the order from 126 to 63?

@sandy_3126 what do you say? It is all topi drama or is India seriously considering slashing the deal?