India may reconsider $20 billion French Rafale jet deal in favor of Russia

[Kinetic]

At that price why anyone will buy Rafale??!!!! Even F-35A is cheaper than that. French have gone mad, they must understand that this is the last chance for Dassault, if it fails there will not be any future customer.

Anyone with commonsense will will not buy rafale for the price French asking.

 

[Tshering22]

Super MKI's would be awesome. 500+ super MKI's will create havoc !!

There are just too many ifs and buts.

200 more MKIs more means we will be Russian Air Force version 2.0.

Buying Rafale means we will be robbed on French terms at gunpoint.

Replacing Rafale with Typhoon means going against the tendering process which Parikkar simply won't unless PM approves it. But that would create havoc in the parliament (not that it matters in the long run , but it can be a distraction).

Getting F-18 now would means on American conditions, zero ToT and becoming another Shah's air force. A BIG no no.

The best option would be to split the deal into buying newer MKIs for half the money and channeling the rest into Tejas Mk2 production acceleration.

At that price why anyone will buy Rafale??!!!! Even F-35A is cheaper than that. French have gone mad, they must understand that this is the last chance for Dassault, if it fails there will not be any future customer.

Anyone with commonsense will will not buy rafale for the price French asking.

Tell me about it. Even the rich Arab sheikhdoms have refused to buy it.

What makes them think we will go for these expensive older jets with no benefits whatsoever to us?

 

[Kinetic]

Tell me about it. Even the rich Arab sheikhdoms have refused to buy it.

What makes them think we will go for these expensive older jets with no benefits whatsoever to us?

Which ac are u talking about?

 

[rockstarIN]

We should fill the gap with, more MKI and try to get second hand M2ks.

 

[anonymus]

Dassault has been behaving funny for long. Either they got their calculations on the financials wrong and want to wiggle out of this or they think that they have MoD over the barrel and they will get anything & everything they want.

This contract was badly dealt with in the first place. Who the heck puts in light fighters in a contest with the twin engined ones & then does not allow the biggest advantage that the light fighters have -i.e. cost to even be a factor? Shortlist the two most expensive planes and then haggle over it? That's lousy planning to even my admittedly untrained eye. We should have kept the performance criteria to the minimum needed and then haggled over cost v/s benefit on everything additional. Atleast we would have known what we are paying for & what the alternative costing was. Imo, this was a dumb idea regardless of whether Rafale or EF was shortlisted. Rafale might well be doing us a big favour.

MoD need to light fire beneath buttocks of ADA, HAL, and DRDO to deliver LCA mkII before schedule. That seem like only respectable option,while buying some F-18 via FMS route. Even anti-Americans would recognise that military sales of US are neat. Whatever assholerry they have to do, they do it upfront, no weaseling .

Even Russia screwed India on issue of ToT for T-90. They dumped all information about T-90 on OFB in Russian, and it took OFB 6 years to translate them.

Getting F-18 now would means on American conditions, zero ToT and becoming another Shah's air force. A BIG no no.

F-18 would have made perfect sense had we chose European Engine for LCA.

 

[Tshering22]

Which ac are u talking about?

Obviously the Rafales.

All those countries who were planning to buy Rafales, be if UAE, Saudi or Brazil, all were waiting for us to finalize the deal so that they could make a confirmation.

Brazilians came to ask our requirements, took a decision and now Embraer is going to make Gripens for them (because they don't have a light combat jet).

While we are still unable to start production.

Rafale has cost us too much time.

It is totally not worth it.

 

[Kinetic]

Obviously the Rafales.

All those countries who were planning to buy Rafales, be if UAE, Saudi or Brazil, all were waiting for us to finalize the deal so that they could make a confirmation.

Brazilians came to ask our requirements, took a decision and now Embraer is going to make Gripens for them (because they don't have a light combat jet).

While we are still unable to start production.

Rafale has cost us too much time.

It is totally not worth it.

Agreed bro.

Dassault didn't learn the lesson, but good to see that India did.

Enough of French BS, look at the mirage upg price. DRDO needs a full push and kick in the butt to develop Tejas mk II soon.

 

[Tshering22]

MoD need to light fire beneath buttocks of ADA, HAL, and DRDO to deliver LCA mkII before schedule. That seem like only respectable option,while buying some F-18 via FMS route. Even anti-Americans would recognise that military sales of US are neat. Whatever assholerry they have to do, they do it upfront, no weaseling .

Even Russia screwed India on issue of ToT for T-90. They dumped all information about T-90 on OFB in Russian, and it took OFB 6 years to translate them.




F-18 would have made perfect sense had we chose European Engine for LCA.

That is OFB's lack of capability. But are you telling that the government doesn't have a credible set of team of Russian translators when 70% of our imports are from Russia?

Really?

6 years to translate is utter cr@p reason that our PSUs are giving. They didn't give them the know how of the entire defence industry. it was just of one tank design. Nothing for someone that claims to have the status of PFB or HVA.

If they previous regime had allocated a large dedicated team of Russian language experts (I am sure GOI has a lot at its disposal than we think), it won't have taken more than a few months.


As for F-18, the US didn't want to give ToT, that's why it lost, in addition to certain technical requirements in Ladakh.

It would have made sense if they were not control freaks.

That's the reason why BEL had to develop sensitive communication equipment for the P-8 and C-130J as it was prone to certain agreements which could be exploited by US.

Agreed bro.

Dassault didn't learn the lesson, but good to see that India did.

Enough of French BS, look at the mirage upg price. DRDO needs a full push and kick in the butt to develop Tejas mk II soon.

The reason why exporters have a ride with our military is because our own defence producers have been laggard till now due to dirty politics.

Why blame French, Russians or anyone else?

We should have developed our industry with hi tech capabilities.

Instead, we were debating about #terrorboat, #Secoolarism, #gharwapasi etc.

 

[Echo_419]

Hi,
I am totally with India at this moment, WTH were French thinking??? why did they bid in first place when they had to twist the proposal later. Its good, in short term IAF will suffer but over the Long term French defence industry's credibility will further go down the drain.
With Mistral off the book and MMRCA too, there is only bleak hope left for them

Agrees the French are trying to rob us in broad daylight

 

[anonymus]

That is OFB's lack of capability. But are you telling that the government doesn't have a credible set of team of Russian translators when 70% of our imports are from Russia?

Really?

6 years to translate is utter cr@p reason that our PSUs are giving. They didn't give them the know how of the entire defence industry. it was just of one tank design. Nothing for someone that claims to have the status of PFB or HVA.

If they previous regime had allocated a large dedicated team of Russian language experts (I am sure GOI has a lot at its disposal than we think), it won't have taken more than a few months.


As for F-18, the US didn't want to give ToT, that's why it lost, in addition to certain technical requirements in Ladakh.

It would have made sense if they were not control freaks.

That's the reason why BEL had to develop sensitive communication equipment for the P-8 and C-130J as it was prone to certain agreements which could be exploited by US.



The reason why exporters have a ride with our military is because our own defence producers have been laggard till now due to dirty politics.

Why blame French, Russians or anyone else?

We should have developed our industry with hi tech capabilities.

Instead, we were debating about #terrorboat, #Secoolarism, #gharwapasi etc.

Dude, Technical papers cannot be translated by normal translators.

 

[Tshering22]

Dude, Technical papers cannot be translated by normal translators.

I was referring to technical translators.

It is not that we have been importing Russian weapons only in the last 10 years. Since we took Soviet offer with Khrushchev, it is an ongoing phenomenon.

If 55 years cannot make GOI and our PSUs keep this backup, then they had it coming.

 

[greatone]

MoD need to light fire beneath buttocks of ADA, HAL, and DRDO to deliver LCA mkII before schedule. That seem like only respectable option,while buying some F-18 via FMS route. Even anti-Americans would recognise that military sales of US are neat. Whatever assholerry they have to do, they do it upfront, no weaseling .

Even Russia screwed India on issue of ToT for T-90. They dumped all information about T-90 on OFB in Russian, and it took OFB 6 years to translate them.

No way dude!
Americans taught the art of assholery to the French.

Check this video to see how US fucked 4 European nations during the sale of 20th century, the sale that transformed F-16 from a cheap jet fighter meant to make up numbers to the most cost effective multi role jet fighter ever.

 

[Razia Sultana]

With $20 billion couldn't we have just focussed on Su-30MKI, PAK-FA and Tejas? The Indian version of Su-30MKI is far superior to many aircrafts. Now is the time to invest in 5th gen or 4++ gen only.

 

[C130]

Sukhoi option is stupid. If IAF wanted Su-30, it would have never floated MMRCA tender. If India buys Su-30 in place of Rafale, IAF would be 100% Russian Airforce, in 10 years.

Also Assembly lines for Su-30 are running at full capacity, and would remain so till 2018 due to pending IAF orders. Su-30 would also not bring any new technology and industrial benefits. If we wanted to buy Rafale without ToT, we would have got 126 rafale in to 5-7 billion dollar range.

126 Rafale for only 5-7 billion
how did you come to that number?

 

[anonymus]

126 Rafale for only 5-7 billion
how did you come to that number?

Came up with that number with Gut estimate.

Anyway i have calculated it now and cost of 126 Rafales is coming out to be $9.5 billion.

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