India: Last Nail in the coffin of Secularism?

[hussain0216]

A country which has almost cleansed it's minority population since independence is lecturing us on secularism

https://www.hudson.org/research/9781-cleansing-pakistan-of-minorities

It's what happens when you go on a dark hindutva path

Pakistan is going in the opposite direction with a common understanding of protection of rights

 

[masterchief_mirza]

If you read Jinnah's and Ambedkar's writings and efforts, they tried to break the Brahmin hegemony in their own ways. Jinnah by choosing a separate state while Ambedkar through the constitution.

An interesting angle there.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

Why Indian Supreme Court decision, on 9th November 2019, awarding the site of 16th century Babri Mosque may prove to be the last nail in the putrefying coffin of Indian Secularism.

The Hindutva mobs on Dec 6, 1992 that attacked and demolished the Babri mosque could still be explained as uncontrolled zealots but the well thought out decision of Indian Supreme Court almost 27 years later is surrender of the state at the highest level; an outright capitulation to right wing Hindutva lead by no else but by the Prime Minister, Narendra Modi. But courts often can not rise much above the sentiments of the politics that surrounds them. Indian Courts in 1950's or even 1990 would not have delivered such a decision - but now politics has changed. Secularism has virtually collapsed in Indian politics; why this is happening? This discussion attempts to trace these developments..

Almost all Muslim countries have Islamic Constitution or have Islam as state religion. Then what is wrong in having a Hindu state, Christian state or a Buddhist state?

 

[xeuss]

Almost all Muslim countries have Islamic Constitution or have Islam as state religion. Then what is wrong in having a Hindu state, Christian state or a Buddhist state?

Nothing.

Just don't use a Hindu/Buddhist/Christian/Muslim state as a cover to implement an agenda that is xenophobic or majoritarianism and built on hate.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Almost all Muslim countries have Islamic Constitution or have Islam as state religion. Then what is wrong in having a Hindu state, Christian state or a Buddhist state?

India is allowed to call itself a Hindu state, or more accurately a Hindutva state. This is certainly preferable to the laughable fraud of labels such as "democracy" or "secular state".

 

[Chhatrapati]

India is allowed to call itself a Hindu state, or more accurately a Hindutva state. This is certainly preferable to the laughable fraud of labels such as "democracy" or "secular state".

India will become a truly Secular state once we implement Uniform Civil Code, i.e equal rules for the masses.
Since when Pakistanis started giving democracy and secular certificates?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

India will become a truly Secular state once we implement Uniform Civil Code, i.e equal rules for the masses.
Since when Pakistanis started giving democracy and secular certificates?

Laughable that so many clowns bang on about crapulent lip service ordinances like this when the AFSPA shoves every single possible law that might remotely appear to promote civil liberties and egalitarianism up the arse.

Where were India's secular values and human rights when 370 was abandoned? Oh yeah. AFSPA. Don't want Muslims going ape shit do we?

But can we invoke AFSPA to protect Muslims from Hindu mobs say if they try to trash a mosque or rampage through Gujarat? Nope sorry.

Human rights in Hindutva land are like a model T Ford.

You can all have whatever equal rights you want, as long as those equal rights favour Hindutva.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Where were India's secular values and human rights when 370 was abandoned? Oh yeah. AFSPA. Don't want Muslims going ape shit do we?

Article 370 is not the corner stone of secular values in India. It's a special provision granted by Indian government to a state. AFSPA is given after Pakistan sponsored terrorist started running amock in valley creating trouble. Muslims are not going ape shit and never will, at least Indian Muslims won't.

But can we invoke AFSPA to protect Muslims from Hindu mobs say if they try to trash a mosque or rampage through Gujarat? Nope sorry.

Many of those Hindus rampaged through were shot dead by the police. Many are in prison.
Try to make sense sometimes.

Human rights in Hindutva land are like a model T Ford.

You can all have whatever equal rights you want, as long as those equal rights favour Hindutva.

Considering you have nothing to say other than apple and orange comparison. Carry on with the usual charade of Hindutva, Human rights yada yada yada.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Article 370 is not the corner stone of secular values in India.

OK. Me eggzplain berry slowly to you.I know what 370 is. I inferred that the natural response (I.e. right to protest, communications, freedom of the press, representation by elected state officials etc) to 370's abrogation was suppressed by your parallel state machinery that comes into force when Muslims may dare to be the victims.

As for the rest of your predictable apologism, Modi and Advani run free. One of them is your PM, elected by 70% or thereabouts of your voters. This says plenty about what checks and balances are actually functional in your nation. Multiple Hindutva lynch fanatics have been freed following farcical trials, or pardoned. The rate of pardoning has only increased. Recent Hindutva lynchings - I've lost count - have been a pardoning circus, where even video evidence of perpetrators is somehow "insufficient" to prove guilt.

In bizarroland India you can somehow prove the life story of deities and their temples without a shred of genuine evidence but a video of some guy being lynched isn't enough for justice??

The f-16 Drama was funny - yknow, we all had a good laugh about Indian evidence based drama there. But here's the thing.

This Babri, Kashmir, Gujarat, lynch attack crap is real, and those miscarriages of justice cost countless lives. Those same miscarriages and selective application of AFSPA will embolden other perpetrators to do more of the same soon enough. So you can carry on with your predictably absurd misdirecting Pakistan bashing or actually go and stick up for your fellow indians. No, Indian Muslims won't be happy or alright or cool with this or supportive of injustices. They will stay silent, until finally they can't take it any more.

 

[خره مينه لګته وي]

A country which has almost cleansed it's minority population since independence is lecturing us on secularism

https://www.hudson.org/research/9781-cleansing-pakistan-of-minorities

Cleansing Pakistan of Minorities

Written by Farahnaz Ispahani ??

Farahnaz Ispahani is a Pakistani American writer and former politician who has served as member of the National Assembly of Pakistan between 2008 and 2012 before her termination.

Born: 1963 (age 56 years), Karachi
Spouse: Husain Haqqani (m. 2000)
Education: Wellesley College
Party: Pakistan Peoples Party

Now let me Quote her bullshitery Article of hussain Haqqani Spouse... she probably failed basic history subject or she intentionally filtered that out bcz whoever is linked with this filthy creature hussain Haqqani has been lying..this old woman is also vying for some position in US & to gain some cheap publicity..
..................................
Quoted from her article
.
At the time of partition in 1947, almost 23 percent of Pakistan’s population was comprised of non-Muslim citizens.

Today, the proportion of non-Muslims has declined to approximately 3 percent.
...................................
She started with 1947 & jumped to 1998 then to the time when she wrote down this piece of garbage....
.
Majority of Non-Muslims 20% to 21% were living in East Pakistan (now bangladesh), which separated from Pakistan in 1971... After Partition & when the first census was carried out then at that time East Pakistan Population was 10 million more than West Pakistan...
how conveniently she ignored that part of minorities who were living in East Pakistan & she didn't even mention that Pakistan’s minority population was bound to decrease incredibly bcz of East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) becoming a new country in 1971 & in the article she jumps between 1950s census & 1998 census while ignoring the 1971 !!
.
What else I can say except lOl...
...................................

A country which has almost cleansed it's minority population since independence is lecturing us on secularism

https://www.hudson.org/research/9781-cleansing-pakistan-of-minorities

How many Extremist Hindus have been hanged, who were involved in killings of Muslims in Gujrat ??
.
.
Terror-accused Hindu hardliner from Modi's party wins seat in India election

FILE PHOTO: Pragya Thakur, a Bharatiya Jantha Party (BJP) candidate in the parliamentary election, gestures atop a car during her election campaign rally in Bhopal, India, April 30, 2019.
REUTERS/RAJ PATIDAR/FILE PHOTO
.
This is what you get in reward for killing minorities in Shining & SECULAR india
.
.
.
What is the progress so far in Aasifa case ?? An 8 year old Kashmiri girl who was brutally R*ped for over a week by indian Army & Police - later they Stoned her to Death !! Isn't Free hand given to indian occupational forces to do whatever they pleases in Indian occupied kashmir ??
.
How many Indian security forces men are Sentenced to death or put behind bars for life imprisonment ??
What about 10k unmarked Graves of Kashmiris who are probably killed in Fake Encounters...
.
In 2017 in a span of 2 months -- 6k Kashmiris got injured, 500 plus blinded by excessive use of pellet guns by indian forces, many Killed --- where is Secularism, Democracy in shining india ?? Suppressing minorities & torturing + killing them + blinding them is an example of shining india ??
.
Talk about present situation in IOJ&K ??
.
If there was a merit to lecture on Secularism, Minorities treatment, Democracy then Indians would be the last creatures on earth to lecture others on these things.
.
Tune in to ArnabGoswami show, he will give you some motivational, nationalistic & Feel good programmes..
after that you can Shout JayModi & JayHind.

 

[Zapper]

Cleansing Pakistan of Minorities

Written by Farahnaz Ispahani ??

Farahnaz Ispahani is a Pakistani American writer and former politician who has served as member of the National Assembly of Pakistan between 2008 and 2012 before her termination.

Born: 1963 (age 56 years), Karachi
Spouse: Husain Haqqani (m. 2000)
Education: Wellesley College
Party: Pakistan Peoples Party

Now let me Quote her bullshitery Article of hussain Haqqani Spouse... she probably failed basic history subject or she intentionally filtered that out bcz whoever is linked with this filthy creature hussain Haqqani has been lying..this old woman is also vying for some position in US & to gain some cheap publicity..
..................................
Quoted from her article
.
At the time of partition in 1947, almost 23 percent of Pakistan’s population was comprised of non-Muslim citizens.

Today, the proportion of non-Muslims has declined to approximately 3 percent.
...................................
She started with 1947 & jumped to 1998 then to the time when she wrote down this piece of garbage....
.
Majority of Non-Muslims 20% to 21% were living in East Pakistan (now bangladesh), which separated from Pakistan in 1971... After Partition & when the first census was carried out then at that time East Pakistan Population was 10 million more than West Pakistan...
how conveniently she ignored that part of minorities who were living in East Pakistan & she didn't even mention that Pakistan’s minority population was bound to decrease incredibly bcz of East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) becoming a new country in 1971 & in the article she jumps between 1950s census & 1998 census while ignoring the 1971 !!
.
What else I can say except lOl...

Yeah anyone who speaks against your narrative is bullshiite for you guys...

https://www.newslaundry.com/2015/01/09/the-vanishing-hindus-of-pakistan-a-demographic-study-2

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34645370

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/08/hindu-muslim-pakistan/536238/

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/opinion/pakistans-religious-minorities-continue-to-suffer/

https://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38c678.html

http://www.pakvoices.pk/why-hindu-population-is-shrinking-in-pakistan/

https://www.dawn.com/news/737877

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...islam-conversion-teenagers-kidnapped/11338314

.
Terror-accused Hindu hardliner from Modi's party wins seat in India election

FILE PHOTO: Pragya Thakur, a Bharatiya Jantha Party (BJP) candidate in the parliamentary election, gestures atop a car during her election campaign rally in Bhopal, India, April 30, 2019.
REUTERS/RAJ PATIDAR/FILE PHOTO
.
This is what you get in reward for killing minorities in Shining & SECULAR india
.
.
.
What is the progress so far in Aasifa case ?? An 8 year old Kashmiri girl who was brutally R*ped for over a week by indian Army & Police - later they Stoned her to Death !! Isn't Free hand given to indian occupational forces to do whatever they pleases in Indian occupied kashmir ??
.
How many Indian security forces men are Sentenced to death or put behind bars for life imprisonment ??
What about 10k unmarked Graves of Kashmiris who are probably killed in Fake Encounters...
.
In 2017 in a span of 2 months -- 6k Kashmiris got injured, 500 plus blinded by excessive use of pellet guns by indian forces, many Killed --- where is Secularism, Democracy in shining india ?? Suppressing minorities & torturing + killing them + blinding them is an example of shining india ??
.
Talk about present situation in IOJ&K ??
.
If there was a merit to lecture on Secularism, Minorities treatment, Democracy then Indians would be the last creatures on earth to lecture others on these things.
.
Tune in to ArnabGoswami show, he will give you some motivational, nationalistic & Feel good programmes..
after that you can Shout JayModi & JayHind

We're letting scum like these talk and abuse our religion and they still walk free. Imagine what would be the plight of non-muslims in your country if they same something on these lines. You can rant all day you want with that brainwashed head of yours but reality isn't gonna change

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Nobody in India is swayed by words like "secularism". These are words simply used to either make a point or defend a point. What matters is actions, and lately India has failed miserably in that regard.

No Muslim lives in India because it is a "secular" country. You live there because of lack of better opportunities. The same can be said for any oppressed or dispossessed community around the world.

What makes or breaks a country is its institutions and the adherence to these institutions. In the last five years, these institutions have been subverted by the regime in power, to the extent that no one trusts them any more.

What Muslims are seeing today is what the Dalits have seen for centuries. If you read Jinnah's and Ambedkar's writings and efforts, they tried to break the Brahmin hegemony in their own ways. Jinnah by choosing a separate state while Ambedkar through the constitution.

How did Daits become similar to muslims? Dalits are just a caste without any enmity. Muslims are another religious group itself. What logic does it make to equate dalit with muslim. Don't overact and behave pretentiously and make a fool of yourself. Ambedkar hated muslims and was regularly critical of muslims and considered muslims as evil actors. He did not hate hindus but was only upset at small mindedness of caste but did not consider hindus as evil

 

[Chhatrapati]

OK. Me eggzplain berry slowly to you.I know what 370 is. I inferred that the natural response (I.e. right to protest, communications, freedom of the press, representation by elected state officials etc) to 370's abrogation was suppressed by your parallel state machinery that comes into force when Muslims may dare to be the victims.

You know shit about art 370, anyone can read it from your verbal diarrhea.
These measures are precautionary, it's not like we wait for things to go south before taking actions. Maybe that's some people wish to happen. Chaos...

As for the rest of your predictable apologism, Modi and Advani run free. One of them is your PM, elected by 70% or thereabouts of your voters. This says plenty about what checks and balances are actually functional in your nation. Multiple Hindutva lynch fanatics have been freed following farcical trials, or pardoned. The rate of pardoning has only increased. Recent Hindutva lynchings - I've lost count - have been a pardoning circus, where even video evidence of perpetrators is somehow "insufficient" to prove guilt.

As far as lynching goes, Modi don't oversee every village or state in India, that's the duty of state police to maintain law and order. In some places they does an exemplary job, sometimes they are bad at it. You've lost count on what?! nobody is pardoned, some people are out on bail and it's not a pardon it just mean they are not a risk to public safety or travel risk as they are awaiting a trial.

In bizarroland India you can somehow prove the life story of deities and their temples without a shred of genuine evidence but a video of some guy being lynched isn't enough for justice??

There was enough historic evidence to suggest the place was infact ram temple otoh court didn't explicitly mention them, only a soft stance to avoid any rifts. There is no shred of evidence that shows Muslims were owners of the land around it, or the mosque.

This Babri, Kashmir, Gujarat, lynch attack crap is real, and those miscarriages of justice cost countless lives. Those same miscarriages and selective application of AFSPA will embolden other perpetrators to do more of the same soon enough. So you can carry on with your predictably absurd misdirecting Pakistan bashing or actually go and stick up for your fellow indians. No, Indian Muslims won't be happy or alright or cool with this or supportive of injustices. They will stay silent, until finally they can't take it any more.

Yeah, as usual Pakistani wish things go apeshit, like 70 years you believed it'll happen soon. How desperate one must be.

 

[Fireurimagination]

It's cute when Islamic republics teach us about secularism, and China teaches us about democracy

 

[خره مينه لګته وي]

We're letting scum like these talk and abuse our religion and they still walk free. Imagine what would be the plight of non-muslims in your country if they same something on these lines. You can rant all day you want with that brainwashed head of yours but reality isn't gonna change

Gross human rights violations have occurred under their watch, according to a 2018 United Nations report. They include gang rapes by military and mass disappearances of approximately 8,000 to 10,000 people. As many as 100,000Kashmiris have been killed and several thousand wounded, blinded and maimed, including through torture tactics in custody

Source
...............................

Gujrat Riots & subsequent killings of minorities there in big numbers & destruction of their worship place speaks a lot about hindutva zealots..
Source
............................

Add to that sikhs massacre & destruction of their holiest place

Sikh leaders say the death toll from the pogroms was far higher than the official figure of 2,733 people in Delhi..

Your elected Representatives & govt officials coordinate with hindutva Facists when it comes to Targeting Minorities, which is rare thing or almost unheard of in rest of the world & it could only happen in Secular & world's biggest democracy INDIA

No wonder these hindutva facist are ruling india with Mass Murderer Modi on Top..

Link
........................

I can keep on adding more for a brainwashed wanker like you but its of no use..