What's new

India in talks to open ports, bases to US military

so finally sweet medicine of CISOMA ?

It remains to be seen.
If LSA is signed, I guess CISMOA & BECA are not far off.
It is mostly a political hurdle, but then again there are concerns with China and Russia and overall neutrality that India maintains with foreign militaries.
Signing these agreements will also allow usage of certain subsystems which were earlier barred from usage coz we didn't sign, during IAF's procurement of C-130s eg, SATCOM transceivers, IFF transponders, high precision GPS equipment, AN/ARC-222 (SINCGARS) and the like. However we did make our own to fill the gap.
 
.
SOURCE: wsws.org

50147783.jpg


According to Indian media reports, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) government has begun discussions with the US on a military Logistics Support Agreement (LSA). If finalized, the LSA would allow the US military to routinely use Indian ports and army and air force bases for refuelling and otherwise staging and provisioning its deployments.

Under the LSA, the US would ostensibly guarantee similar rights to the Indian military. This, however, would be largely a dead letter, for while the US is an Asian and global military power, the reach of the Indian military is restricted to the subcontinent and parts of the Indian Ocean.

Opening discussions on the LSA marks a major shift of India towards a formal military alliance with US imperialism. Already India is deeply integrated into the US “pivot” to Asia—Washington’s drive to economically and diplomatically isolate China and militarily encircle it. Now New Delhi is preparing to allow US planes and ships to use Indian facilities, bringing them in still closer range of China, India’s northern neighbour.

The US has been pressing India to sign on to the LSA since the George W. Bush administration signed a Strategic Partnership Agreement with the Congress Party-led United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government in 2006. While the UPA held talks with the US on the LSA, it ultimately balked at signing on, because of concerns that it would imperil India’s “strategic autonomy” and rile China.

Because the throwing open of Indian facilities to the US military is a highly sensitive and contentious issue, the BJP government has made no formal announcement that it is discussing with Washington ratifying the LSA. However, the Indian government has not denied the media reports.

Quoting from an unnamed “senior (Indian) defence official involved” in the negotiations, the Chennai-basedHindureported on December 26 that the LSA was discussed during Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar’s December 7-10 visit to the US.

In a statement that underscores the huge import of India agreeing to open its military facilities to the US, theHinduwent on to say that the official saw no serious obstacle to New Delhi soon reaching agreement with the US on the LSA. “There is only one concern,” he then declared. “What happens in the case of war?”

The official added that India is seeking “clarifications” as to how the LSA would be applied in the event that India did not support a US military action. Saying perhaps more than he intended to about the aggressive character of US imperialism, the unnamed senior official said New Delhi did not want to be legally obliged to “extend support for war with friendly countries.”

He suggested that a “compromise” could be found through the inclusion of language stipulating that in the event of war India could determine on a case-by-case basis whether the LTA’s terms would remain unchanged, suspended or modified.

The inclusion of such language would be in keeping with India’s policy of integrating itself ever-more fully into the US’s strategic offensive against China while maintaining the pretence of Indian “strategic autonomy.”

It would help counter domestic opposition to an enhanced military-security partnership with the US. Among India’s workers and toilers there is widespread hostility to US imperialism, which they rightly identify with war and oppression. Sections of India’s political and military establishment are for their own reasons opposed to aligning more closely with Washington, both because of its impact on relations with China and because the US has a long history of bullying and threatening India.

The US, for its part, is anxious to finalize the LSA, which it views as an important piece in its long-term strategy of drawing the Indian military into ever closer ties with the Pentagon, including making it dependent on US weapons and weapon systems.

In an interview with theIndian Express, a Pentagon official indicated that Washington is pleased with the manner in which the negotiations are proceeding. TheExpressreport paraphrased the official as saying, “Parrikar has shown an open mind on signing the LSA,” and that the US is “hopeful” two related agreements that the US views as “foundational” to developing a full military partnership with India “will follow.”

The two other “foundational agreements” are the Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA). These agreements, which are a standard part of the US’ military alliances, are meant to facilitate and promote inter-military “communications interoperability” and “security.”

According to the same defence official who spoke to theHindu, they would involve “giving the US access to India’s encrypted systems,” a condition that has caused India’s armed forces to voice “reservations.”

A.K. Antony, the UPA government’s defence minister from 2006 to 2014, ultimately came to oppose the CISMOA and BECA, as well as the LSA, because, reports theIndian Express, he “believed that signing the agreements would grant the US military unencumbered access to Indian military installations and compromise sensitive data.”

Separately, the US is pushing, under the Indo-US Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI), for India to enter into co-production and co-development projects with the Pentagon and US arms manufacturers.

However, US officials have told their Indian counterparts that if India has not agreed to the terms of the CISMOA and BECA it will “at a certain point” prove an obstacle to expanding the co-manufacture and development of high technology weapons systems.

Under the previous UPA government, India became a “global strategic partner” of the US, the Indian military became the Pentagon’s most frequent partner in joint exercises, and the US displaced Russia as India’s largest weapons supplier.

The BJP, during its 20 months in office, has tilted India still more pronouncedly toward Washington, including forging closer military-security ties with the US’ most important Indo-Pacific allies, Japan and Australia.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi made Obama the first US president to be the guest of honour at India’s annual Republic Day celebrations. At the conclusion of Obama’s January 2015 visit to Delhi, he and Modi issued a “US-India Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean,” which, to Washington’s delight, included US-drafted language concerning the conflict between the US and its allies and China in the South China Sea.

In September, Indian External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and her US counterpart John Kerry announced that the US and Indian militaries will cooperate in “peacekeeping capacity building” with “a focus on training” troops from African countries for UN peacekeeping missions. While in the past there has been ad hoc cooperation between the Indian and US militaries in providing disaster relief, this agreement represents the first time they will be collaborating in an overseas military operation, working together to fashion the military forces to be used in policing and imposing by force of arms imperialist-sponsored UN peacekeeping missions.

Especially important has been the Modi government’s embrace of trilateral Indo-US-Japanese military-security cooperation, something the previous UPA government drew back from after China voiced strong opposition.

Last September, Swaraj met with Kerry and Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida in the inaugural meeting of the US-Japan-India Trilateral Ministerial Dialogue. Soon after it was revealed that the annual bilateral Indo-US “Malabar” naval exercise would henceforth have a third permanent member, Japan.

Parrikar’s visit was the first by an Indian defence minister to the US since 2008. During the same period, there were six visits to India by the US defence secretary, an indication of the Pentagon’s push to integrate India into its provocations and war planning against China.

Symbolizing the deepening military-security ties between the two countries, Parrikar started his US tour by visiting the US Pacific Command (PACOM) in Hawaii. Led by US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter, he toured the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, one of the US’ nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, becoming the first Indian defence minister to ever tour a US aircraft carrier.

The Stalinist Communist Party of India (Marxist), or CPM, has issued a statement expressing concerns over the BJP’s negotiations with the US over the LSA and the two related military cooperation agreements. A party that is thoroughly integrated into the Indian bourgeoisie, the CPM propped up the Congress-led UPA government for four years, including as it forged India’s strategic partnership with US imperialism.

The CPM opposes the LSA, from the standpoint of the Indian ruling elite’s national interests, not as part of the struggle to develop a working class-led revolutionary opposition to imperialism and imperialist war. A recent editorial in the CPM organPeople’s Democracyurged the BJP government to “not sign these agreements which will limit India’s sovereignty, impair its strategic autonomy and make India a subordinate military ally of the United States.”

In line with this, the CPM promotes the reactionary illusion that the Indian bourgeoisie, the UN and a “multi-polar world” can serve as a progressive counterweight to US imperialism.
I voted for BJP in the last parliamentary election,nd i am regreting about that decision now.
 
. .
I voted for BJP in the last parliamentary election,nd i am regreting about that decision now.

Pick your poison. There is no India leaning

West Leaning
===========
BJP
AAP
AIADMK
AIMIM
Trinamool
AGP
Shiv Sena
MNS
TDP
SAD
PDP

Russia Leaning
=============
Congress
BJD
BSP
SP
RJD
JDU
DMK
TRS
JDS
NCP
CPI
NC

China Leaning
============
CPI(M)
 
Last edited:
.
Pick your poison. There is no India leaning

West Leaning
===========
BJP
AAP
AIADMK
AIMIM
Trinamool
AGP
Shiv Sena
MNS
TDP
SAD

Russia Leaning
=============
Congress
BJD
BSP
SP
RJD
JDU
DMK
TRS
JDS
NCP
CPI

China Leaning
============
CPI(M)
No one except congress,bjp & cpim is not having a clear cut forgien policy.
 
.
The fact is people in India who really know the significance of such agreements or foreign policy issues in general are less than 1%.

Most of the population is either uneducated illiterates or educated illiterates.

The general population is more interested in movies, TV shows, Cricket or at worse in emotional issues like Ram Mandir, Beef ban, Jallikattu ban, growing Intolerance, caste politics etc.

Politicians does not need to fear about loosing the support either while accepting or rejecting such agreements.



Left would like India to surrender and be subservient to China. The less said about them the better.

You cant be more wrong on this...it is the same uneducated class that way back in 62 sold their farms, ornaments and what not when Indian Forces were not even zilch of what they are today...we may be anything but national pride is something that run in veins....if govt. went with anything like that without making sure public completely understand what they are signing and what are the implications...then they are certainly signing their death letter....
 
.
You cant be more wrong on this...it is the same uneducated class that way back in 62 sold their farms, ornaments and what not when Indian Forces were not even zilch of what they are today...we may be anything but national pride is something that run in veins....if govt. went with anything like that without making sure public completely understand what they are signing and what are the implications...then they are certainly signing their death letter....

1) War is overt hence people could see and take emotional stand

2) Signing of agreements is covert. British came to India as East India company not as British Empire. It took many years for the common man to even comprehend what had happened

3) There could be a problem for BJP only if Opposition parties make this a huge emotional issue as the new British East India company returning back to India else common man could care less. BJP is well position to shut the opposition voice with Bose files, National herald case etc. I would be pretty surprised if congress makes even a token gesture. Coming to communists their base is already dead. So no issues.

India is the only country where LSA can be signed with least amount of long term resistance. Just another Indrani Mukherji type drama is more than enough to get the attention away from the general populace.But I personally feel this to be a mistake.We would be unnecessarily antagonising both Russia and Iran not to mention deviating from our time tested method of non alignment.

Russia has already backed out of India. It is in best interest of India to close these agreements and DTTI immediately. Else India would be neither here nor there.
 
.
OK. Two years back, during all the anti Iran shouting in the US and the anti US shouting in Iran I had said, when the US starts exiting Afghanistan, things between Iran and the US will improve. This we have started seeing.

Indulge me a little, while a build a case as to why we may be progressing towards the agreements.

Now, I am going to make another statement.

The containment of China has begun and the first pawn to be attacked will be Pakistan. Why do I say this? The Chinese economy is dependent on oil. Soon it is expected to consume approximately 25% of overall petroleum and other liquids consumption. It is a net importer of these. China is a huge producer of coal. But, with the signing of accords it will need to cut and move to more ecologically efficient means of power.

Today almost 50% of China's oil requirement comes from the Middle East and another 24% from Africa. Which means, you need to ship it through the Indian Ocean. This is the domain of the USN and the IN. To protect this, the CPEC is planned. With Gwadar playing a major role. While Pakistanis on this forum may thank China, for providing the infrastructure, I think its the Chinese who need to thank Pakistan for this port. This port and the CPEC is going to be main artery of the Chinese economy.

Now, come to the point of the port. The person who controls this port, is a thorn to the people who want to control or force China. If the person sides with the Americans, they lose out on China. If they side with China, there will be repercussions. My belief is that Pakistan will side with China. And this poses a problem. To anybody, who wants to ensure China no longer poses a threat.

The objective then is to either ensure the CPEC never succeeds. Or if it is succeeding, ensure control over the port is with a government which supports the US and its allies. Now, if Pakistan supports China, the following are possibilities.

a. Military Coup.
b. Economic sanctions
c. Subversive engagement
d. Military intervention

Point a, seems highly unlikely. Because, even if executed after creating a condition where the military has to intervene, the Pak Army will follow the same policy vis-a-vis the CPEC. This provides the Pak people with much needed development and leverage on the Chinese.

Point b. Not going to work if the CPEC becomes a reality. Because, then China cannot afford Pakistan to fail. China will back Pakistan economically through trade, which the US cannot control. And past history has proven Pakistan can withstand sanctions.

Then the two options become subversive engagement and military intervention.

If point c, is followed, there will be increasing domestic unrest spread via a campaign internally to ensure CPEC does not succeed. This will include trouble in Balochistan and some other province.

If point d, is followed, there will be a situation created where the Pak forces are left with no option but to attack or make a move. This will be against US interests. Or some case will be prepared for an attack on Pakistan through Afghanistan. This war will pull in India, Afghanistan and US on one side. With Iran staying neutral. Why will Iran stay neutral? Because if Gwadar fails, the other route is Chabhar. The Indian side may provide bases and tactical support to US and Afghan forces. The Russians will ike this because it makes the Chinese dependent on them.

My money is that point c will lead to d. The explosion on ties between India and the US, the increased military engagement and the inroads in Afghanistan is going to lead an alliance against a country. That country is not going to be China. This engagement is about containing China, but not about targeting it. That target is Pakistan.

Just my thoughts on a Saturday evening with no liquor. :D

@MastanKhan @araz @Capt.Popeye @Abingdonboy
 
Last edited:
.
You cant be more wrong on this...it is the same uneducated class that way back in 62 sold their farms, ornaments and what not when Indian Forces were not even zilch of what they are today...we may be anything but national pride is something that run in veins....if govt. went with anything like that without making sure public completely understand what they are signing and what are the implications...then they are certainly signing their death letter....

Mate, you are comparing apples and oranges really!

While I don't doubt Indians' general patriotism in times of distress like 1962 war, I highly doubt (with due respect) average Indians' ability to know what is LSA or CISMOA or how it will affect our standing with both US or Russian camps. The common man is more concerned about his money, family, health & education than to worry about the kind discussed here.

The only real opponents who could have opposed it, the Communists, themselves are on the vane due to their own over-opportunistic and vote bank politics.
 
.
OK. Two years back, during all the anti Iran shouting in the US and the anti US shouting in Iran I had said, when the US starts exiting Afghanistan, things between Iran and the US will improve. This we have started seeing.

Indulge me a little, while a build a case as to why we may be progressing towards the agreements.

Now, I am going to make another statement.

The containment of China has begun and the first pawn to be attacked will be Pakistan. Why do I say this? The Chinese economy is dependent on oil. Soon it is expected to consume approximately 25% of overall petroleum and other liquids consumption. It is a net importer of these. China is a huge producer of coal. But, with the signing of accords it will need to cut and move to more ecologically efficient means of power.

Today almost 50% of China's oil requirement comes from the Middle East and another 24% from Africa. Which means, you need to ship it through the Indian Ocean. This is the domain of the USN and the IN. To protect this, the CPEC is planned. With Gwadar playing a major role. While Pakistanis on this forum may thank China, for providing the infrastructure, I think its the Chinese who need to thank Pakistan for this port. This port and the CPEC is going to be main artery of the Chinese economy.

Now, come to the point of the port. The person who controls this port, is a thorn to the people who want to control or force China. If the person sides with the Americans, they lose out on China. If they side with China, there will be repercussions. My belief is that Pakistan will side with China. And this poses a problem. To anybody, who wants to ensure China no longer poses a threat.

The objective then is to either ensure the CPEC never succeeds. Or if it is succeeding, ensure control over the port is with a government which supports the US and its allies. Now, if Pakistan supports China, the following are possibilities.

a. Military Coup.
b. Economic sanctions
c. Subversive engagement
d. Military intervention

Point a, seems highly unlikely. Because, even if executed after creating a condition where the military has to intervene, the Pak Army will follow the same policy vis-a-vis the CPEC. This provides the Pak people with much needed development and leverage on the Chinese.

Point b. Not going to work if the CPEC becomes a reality. Because, then China cannot afford Pakistan to fail. China will back Pakistan economically through trade, which the US cannot control. And past history has proven Pakistan can withstand sanctions.

Then the two options become subversive engagement and military intervention.

If point c, is followed, there will be increasing domestic unrest spread via a campaign internally to ensure CPEC does not succeed. This will include trouble in Balochistan and some other province.

If point d, is followed, there will be a situation created where the Pak forces are left with no option but to attack or make a move. This will be against US interests. Or some case will be prepared for an attack on Pakistan through Afghanistan. This war will pull in India, Afghanistan and US on one side. With Iran staying neutral. Why will Iran stay neutral? Because if Gwadar fails, the other route is Chabhar. The Indian side may provide bases and tactical support to US and Afghan forces. The Russians will ike this because it makes the Chinese dependent on them.

My money is that point c will lead to d. The explosion on ties between India and the US, the increased military engagement and the inroads in Afghanistan is going to lead an alliance against a country. That country is not going to be China. This engagement is about containing China, but not about targeting it. That target is Pakistan.

Just my thoughts on a Saturday evening with no liquor. :D

@MastanKhan @araz @Capt.Popeye @Abingdonboy

Excellent post. I would like to add couple of points

1) Raheel's term is coming to an end later this year. Historically, Pakistan military is US leaning. Your point a) has more possibility before expiration of the Raheel's term. Raheel's popularity is at it's peak and It would be pretty difficult for a new comer to enforce a coup.

2) China has contingency routes via Myanmar and the a canal being built through Thailand to by pass Strait of Malacca which is controlled by US

upload_2015-12-30_23-4-44-png.283865


ThaiLand seem like to get involve Scs

3) China has direct access to Russia & Kazakhstan for it's Oil and Gas needs. China's foray into Africa and South America has other reasons apart from Oil & gas.

upload_2016-1-16_14-46-21.png


World’s Top Oil Producers - CNNMoney

upload_2016-1-16_14-54-42.png


• Natural gas producing countries - Ranking | Statistic
 
.
Expect harassment of Indian women by U.S. soldiers as happens in Japan and South Korea. It might not happen in the few years after setting foot in India, but as they grow in confidence, so will their over-confidence and sense of invulnerability. I've already mentioned this that India should be wary of how far the U.S. incurs in their country. Everything they say and do is for their own express benefit. They don't fight their own wars without having another country as a shield.

Thank You for your stupidity.
 
.
Russia has already backed out of India. It is in best interest of India to close these agreements and DTTI immediately. Else India would be neither here nor there.
Despite the recent coldness in India-Russia relations, we do have to remember that they are one of our oldest and most important ally.Our major weapon systems and military utilities are Soviet legacy or Russian.Without Russian active assistance and spares,major tactical and strategic infrastructure would be rendered obsolete within a short period of time.Also we have to consider the fact that it is Indian influence that is holding back Pakistan's eagerness to buy cheap Russian systems.
By not signing DTTI,we are certainly not losing out on anything strategic.
 
.
Despite the recent coldness in India-Russia relations, we do have to remember that they are one of our oldest and most important ally.Our major weapon systems and military utilities are Soviet legacy or Russian.Without Russian active assistance and spares,major tactical and strategic infrastructure would be rendered obsolete within a short period of time.Also we have to consider the fact that it is Indian influence that is holding back Pakistan's eagerness to buy cheap Russian systems.
By not signing DTTI,we are certainly not losing out on anything strategic.

1) Most of the new defense agreements have been with US, France, Israel & UK

2) Russia will not support India in a India-China war

3) These agreements would help India get Drones, ABMs, EMALS, Engine tech etc.
 
.
That's a funny link.

Nothing on this front will ever happen.

We didn't even give bases (Except a listening facility in Vishakhapatnam) to Soviets despite being their allies. What makes you think we'd give bases to a foreign power when we ourselves are acquiring bases.
 
.
Mate, you are comparing apples and oranges really!

While I don't doubt Indians' general patriotism in times of distress like 1962 war, I highly doubt (with due respect) average Indians' ability to know what is LSA or CISMOA or how it will affect our standing with both US or Russian camps. The common man is more concerned about his money, family, health & education than to worry about the kind discussed here.

The only real opponents who could have opposed it, the Communists, themselves are on the vane due to their own over-opportunistic and vote bank politics.
Actually not....common man did that for pride and once they see any threat to that...rest assured dooms day for govt. In today's media centric world passing on this message that India's sovereignty is in danger is cake walk...and i can bet my head on this that opposition will make sure that happens....
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom