India has raised the stakes

[Ganga]

No problem, we should also forment a policy of them denouncing Indian involvement in Baluchistan and brutalities in Kashmir if they want safe passage of their soldiers in afghanistan.

For gods sake pls provide some evidence.Mr Krishna had also mentioned it in the joint press conference.Any one can claim anything but what matters is the evidence.

 

[forcetrip]

You may not believe it because it is coming from the mouth of an Indian but i would be a happy man if you manage to do it....China is growing her economic clout, India hers....It is high time GOP should join the party....Once you will get the taste of 8%-10% annual growth with stakes increasing in the world politics and you being center of attraction..all these issues would resolve on its own....At the moment unfortunately you need their $$$ badly.....So ....

Why would I not believe facts? You call them our allies but its okay for them to slap us in a foreign country to gain a financial future, but its not in our best interest to give them a logical reply? A reply mind you that is actually a fact. Nothing will change in their stance when it comes to asking us for help and the other way around.


As said before unless and until there is a change in ground all these would be empty words...Now are they, were they or will they remain empty only time will tell....I am not a fanboy so i don't treat it as victory by any stretch of imagination...Yes what i am liking is that India is getting a bit assertive these days....

I agree so far nothing has changed.... However if i understand cameroon statement properly he was not advocating any change at all....He repeatedly said we will keep helping Pak in their fight...He even praised your efforts of past 2 years...The change/drift is the accountability and allegation about your establishment role in WOT...Such talks were always on...Wiki leaks is one good example...However no-one directly accused your establishment before...

Yes .. they did now and it should end now as well .. Too much is on the line ..

That's what i challenged....By joining camps you lost opportunity to get best of half of the world......I hate to mention K word but then at that time(refering to 47-71) forcefully take away Kashmir was a higher priority.....So short term gains took over long term gains......And as you said there has to be a common goal for both parties...Once ruskies were defeated as expected US lost interest in the region and left.....The mess is in front of us....So GOP ended up looking like a fool....

You are forgetting the times when India did the same things.. These were different times.. 71 war is a prime example. I cant argue with you if you see your country operating terrorists differently than us. Patriotism is good and all but I have never seen a single Indian individual ever accepting that India takes a dump like everyone else.

Well i cannot predict this...but to me an independent foreign policy is a must...I am afraid GOP don't have one......Right from the birth of Pakistan you tilted towards America....That was logical because India was huge and there was a real danger(atleast in pakistan mind) of India forcefully trying to revert back partition....However taking it a step further was in my eyes a bad idea....Like it or not but India is huge...The way i cannot think of defeating China and concentrate only on my defence the same way GOP should have realized this and then play their cards....However blunders like Kargil are just a decade old....

Right now i see more issues with your love for America in the past then benefits...Was it logical to have this level of engagemnt with Americans at that time...may be may be not....Though we also had similar issues when China was a real danger ....US almost on the verge of attacking us(71 war) yet we managed to remain realistic and followed NAM....May be Pak could have managed the similar policy....With such a strategic geographical location...a country rich of natural resources i defnitely think you guys could have achieved much more then where you are today....Anyways i am hopeful there will not be any more coups and Pakistan will emerge as a democratically and economically strong Asian power....

The amount of times GOP has reverted its own policies seems to me that they are its own worst enemy.. So I guess not having a plan maybe a blessing in disguise.. What you are saying is actually what I have already mentioned in my previous post.. I love my soil but the people on it didn't come with the deal.

And i believe that is how it is going to be....Now GOP should pull up their socks...Make the most of the AID package they are receiving...Invest heavily in infrastructure and make their markets lucrative......If possible engage with India by the means of trade....and the most important do whatever they can to ensure no more mumbai's in any part of the world with its roots in Pak.....

Well just wait for "another 4 F16's coming to Pakistan" thread. You will see the real face of our everyday Pakistani. Happy, Elated, overjoyed. Lets hope for common sense to prevail. Now dont get me wrong, India has its own faults and mischiefs, but there are things that need to be learned from them and implemented immediately.

 

[Prometheus]

Houston !! We have a problem..........................There is a elephant in the room

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dude, The bold part is pure BS. show the evidence from a credible neutral source and also show us statement by Indian FM acknowledging the same.

India, Pakistan to take trust building process forward

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

http://www.eurasiaview.com/20100717...talks-qureshi-spoils-a-great-opportunity.html


Now stop cryin and ur bs rants!

 

[Trident]

India, Pakistan to take trust building process forward

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

http://www.eurasiaview.com/20100717...talks-qureshi-spoils-a-great-opportunity.html


Now stop cryin and ur bs rants!

first of all the first two links u have provided are not credible enough to discuss

and the third one where the hell did it mention that our FM acknowledge it....it just mentioned all the BS that mr qoreshi spoke while he was high in the press conference... which ruined the atmosphere of talks with his dramebaz antiques ....

Worse was to come from Mr.Qureshi. He added that during Home Minister P.Chidambaram’s June visit to Pakistan he had admitted that Baloch leader Brahamdagh Bugti Indian passport would be cancelled if he was a Pakistani citizen. This was immediately refuted by Bugti’s spokesman to the BBC Urdu Service. But from where did Mr.Qureshi fish out this lie?

and where is the proof that PC has admitted to it...who knows wether qoreshi himself admitted the role of ISI in mumbai attacks...dont make a point based on one sided lie of which mr qoreshi is expert of

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

first of all the first two links u have provided are not credible enough to discuss
and the third one where the hell did it mention that our FM acknowledge it....it just mentioned all the BS that mr qoreshi spoke while he was high in the press conference... which ruined the atmosphere of talks with his dramebaz antiques ....

Worse was to come from Mr.Qureshi. He added that during Home Minister P.Chidambaram’s June visit to Pakistan he had admitted that Baloch leader Brahamdagh Bugti Indian passport would be cancelled if he was a Pakistani citizen. This was immediately refuted by Bugti’s spokesman to the BBC Urdu Service. But from where did Mr.Qureshi fish out this lie?

and where is the proof that PC has admitted to it...who knows wether qoreshi himself admitted the role of ISI in mumbai attacks...dont make a point based on one sided lie of which mr qoreshi is expert of

The times is not credible? is The hindu also not credible?

Also u present me n believe the refusal of a TERRORIST?
And refuse to believe wat a countrys Foriegn Minister says?

And did ur FM refuse tht brahamdagh didnt have an indian passport rather he said we will cancel it after looking into it?if tht was just an allegation he could have said on the face on Pak FM tht it is not correct rather sayin we will cancel it

Also its Qureshi not qoreshi.
2nd)Where did he say ISI is involved? in ur pathetic wet dreams?

 

[Trident]

The times is not credible? is The hindu also not credible?

Also u present me n believe the refusal of a TERRORIST?
And refuse to believe wat a countrys Foriegn Minister says?

And did ur FM refuse tht brahamdagh didnt have an indian passport rather he said we will cancel it after looking into it?if tht was just an allegation he could have said on the face on Pak FM tht it is not correct rather sayin we will cancel it

plz provide me with links frm times and hindu where our FM agrees he has an indian passport....he was just silent in the press conf just for the ske of not spoiling the talks atmosphere unlike ur FM who doesnt even kno what to speak in ajoint conf....

as far as beliving a countrys FM our FM has stated that several times that isi is involved in mum attacks so do u belive thats true...

 

[DGMO]

We can all debate why India has become the West's darling, but the fact remains that it has and, with its increasing clout

And therein lies the answer, which you've picked up yourself.

I think there's a few factors around this:

1) NRI's - Whichever market you're willing to look at (Middle East, US, UK, EU, Canadian, Australian), NRI's have established a firm footing. In line with that, they've on the whole contributed positively and integrated into society, mainly through hard work and entrepreneurship.

2) Overseas Lobbying Effect - Linked to the above, NRI's do very well abroad. Education is incredibly important to them, and they're very successful in climbing the corporate / success ladder. This means that over time, they've managed to 'infiltrate' certain sections of society where their voice carries some mileage. Looking at the Obama administration and how many NRI's he has around him, or in the UK, then you see that as donors, or just simply due to their professional status, they hold sway.

3) Economic - As an emerging economy, Western govt's are all courting India and want to ensure some of those emerging companies invest a little their way. Coupled with the cash to splash at home, the growing middle class wants cars, TV's etc, and Western govts are all too happy to sell and are lining up.

4) Military - A huge industry and one where JV's can happen, and big deals like the MRCA. A massive armed forces needs servicing, and it makes sense to build relations targeting that aspect.

5) Healthy Relations Worldwide / Lack of Enemies - Whether it's Russia, the EU, the US, Arab world, Iran, Afghanistan and Israel, India doesn't upset any of them in a huge way. It's managed to weave itself quite brilliantly to keep everyone happy.​

There could be more like the PR over it's democracy, tourism and how it merchandises itself through Bollywood, all these things and the above 5 factors works in its favour.

So they're in a unique position. Our concerns over Kashmir will be overlooked time and time again, because of the above. Something like Kashmir becomes irrelevant for world powers when India can tell the UK delegation "one mention of the 'K' word, and this love affair is over". And even that during the height of disturbances and killings in that region.

But then you have to admire India that they've managed to achieve that position, and we haven't.

India could be a lot more forceful if it wanted to in the Pak-bashing, trust me. Even during the press conference with Cameron, MMS was restrained and spoke of the desire to have dialogue when he could've twisted the knife further.

We need to look at India and see what they've done to be in the position they're in. They're not perfect, but we're sinking, and that needs to change soon with an overhaul of our own domestic policies.

Otherwise, prepared to be bashed, and if not cheerleading, expect India to be part of the mix.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

plz provide me with links frm times and hindu where our FM agrees he has an indian passport....he was just silent in the press conf just for the ske of not spoiling the talks atmosphere unlike ur FM who doesnt even kno what to speak in ajoint conf....

as far as beliving a countrys FM our FM has stated that several times that isi is involved in mum attacks so do u belive thats true...

The News and Dawn are the as neutral as it gets!!
I gave it as an example... about ur FM sitting and not saying anyhing thing well he didnt have any to say rather calling back to delhi following instructions and getting his needles stuck on mumbai and nothing else,no siachin or kashmir.... He didnt even had the mandate to talk.
Our FM knows how to talk as well as has balls n mandate to talk on ur FMs face!
And if Pak FM was wrong why did ur sm krushna not refuse it tht brahamdagh has an indian passport? if ur so confident tht he doesnt????

About ur Fm talking about ISI why didnt he say tht on the face of Pak FM?Was he scared? ur home secretary and ur FMs rant had already screwed the atmosphere before tht press confrence!!
BIG QUESTION!!

 

[SONOFAGUN]

I disagree.

Diplomatic and media attacks on Pakistan have nothing to do with terror per se. We have always been in the pro-Zionist western media's cross hairs, especially after we went nuclear, and before any proliferation issues were raised.

Terror is just the latest excuse to bash Pakistan, to placate India. To put another way, even if 9/11 or Mumbai had never happened, the West would have found some other reason to lambast Pakistan. At the risk of being crude, do you really think the West gives a damn about Mumbai?

It has to do with pleasing and propping up India, which has become central to the West's policy against its perceived future threat from China.

I diagree.
I have grown witnessing Pakistan using Terrorism as a state policy ( Punjab). Even till date many terrorist are hiding in Pakistan.

To an average Indian, it is baffling that Pakistan escapes being put in the same league as North Korea even after so much information available in public domain about Pakistan being epicenter of world's terrorism. Western Hypocricy......

 

[Trident]

The News and Dawn are the as neutral as it gets!!
I gave it as an example... about ur FM sitting and not saying anyhing thing well he didnt have any to say rather calling back to delhi following instructions and getting his needles stuck on mumbai and nothing else,no siachin or kashmir.... He didnt even had the mandate to talk.
Our FM knows how to talk as well as has balls n mandate to talk on ur FMs face!
And if Pak FM was wrong why did ur sm krushna not refuse it tht brahamdagh has an indian passport? if ur so confident tht he doesnt????

About ur Fm talking about ISI why didnt he say tht on the face of Pak FM?Was he scared? ur home secretary and ur FMs rant had already screwed the atmosphere before tht press confrence!!
BIG QUESTION!!

we kno how to behave when on diplomacy and when to make a move unlike ur FM who intially said that our FM was on phone constantly initially and then back tracked frm his comments....he was childish and looks like a dramebaz to me rather than a diplomat.... u dont need to have balls to talk in diplomacy u need brains which ur FM clearly lacks....have nice sleep..ciao

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

we kno how to behave when on diplomacy and when to make a move unlike ur FM who intially said that our FM was on phone constantly initially and then back tracked frm his comments....he was childish and looks like a dramebaz to me rather than a diplomat.... u dont need to have balls to talk in diplomacy u need brains which ur FM clearly lacks....have nice sleep..ciao

Ur home secretary vomits B.S just before the summit without even having the authority to give a statement and u talk about diplomacy?
Ur FM lands on our airports says hes here to talk about EVERYTHING and gets stuck on mumbai?Nice diplomacy!

Ur FM says he will cancel brahamdagh indian passport on record thts DIPLOMACY?

He didnt back track...Also where did he accept ISI being involved?And where did ur FM refuse about brahamdagh having a indian passport?
Dramaybaz? ur FM looked like a lost fool!!
And not only lacks balls=MANDATE(,brains but intellect also.
He was like a baby stuck on his rant(i wanna have toffe but not medicine)!

Have a good night sleep if u cant reply with wit or facts.

 

[Trident]

Ur home secretary vomits B.S just before the summit without even having the authority to give a statement and u talk about diplomacy?
Ur FM lands on our airports says hes here to talk about EVERYTHING and gets stuck on mumbai?Nice diplomacy!

Ur FM says he will cancel brahamdagh indian passport on record thts DIPLOMACY?

He didnt back track...Also where did he accept ISI being involved?And where did ur FM refuse about brahamdagh having a indian passport?
Dramaybaz? ur FM looked like a lost fool!!
And not only lacks balls,brains but intellect also.
He was like a baby stuck on his rant(i wanna have toffe but not medicine)!

Have a good night sleep if u cant reply with wit or facts.

our home sec has the right to state facts based on headley episode

again am askin u where did our FM said that he will cancel so called passport provide a link thats credible

and yes mumbai comes first in our diplomacy....untill and unless the terror shops are closed inside ur porder we dont have any hing else to discuss...how hard is it to get

he was more matured than mr qoreshi who dosent even kno how to behave at a parley
instead of twisting the facts and trollin go get a sleep

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

our home sec has the right to state facts based on headley episode

again am askin u where did our FM said that he will cancel so called passport provide a link thats credible

and yes mumbai comes first in our diplomacy....untill and unless the terror shops are closed inside ur porder we dont have any hing else to discuss...how hard is it to get

he was more matured than mr qoreshi who dosent even kno how to behave at a parley
instead of twisting the facts and trollin go get a sleep

I dont think headly was handded over to india at tht time?even if he was a HOME SEC has NO MANDATE NOR HE IS A SPOKESMAN FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND HAS NO AUTHORITY TO ISSUE FOOLISH STATEMENTS WITH NO PROOF!!!

Maybe ur country follows somewat INDIGENOUS patern never seen anywhere in the world??


The Summit was not for ur BOMBAY??? It was a SUMMIT and ur FM was to discuss EVERYTHING as he said HIMSELF.

Ur priorities arent ours.

Also u didnt even answer my questions???Where did Mr Qureshi accept ISIs involvement or SM krushna deny Brahamdagh havin a indian passport????
I provided u the links it upon u to accept them or not!

 

[Trident]

I dont think headly was handded over to india at tht time?even if he was a HOME SEC has NO MANDATE NOR HE IS A SPOKESMAN FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND HAS NO AUTHORITY TO ISSUE FOOLISH STATEMENTS WITH NO PROOF!!!

Maybe ur country follows somewat INDIGENOUS patern never seen anywhere in the world??


The Summit was not for ur BOMBAY??? It was a SUMMIT and ur FM was to discuss EVERYTHING as he said HIMSELF.

Ur priorities arent ours.

Also u didnt even answer my questions???Where did Mr Qureshi accept ISIs involvement or SM krushna deny Brahamdagh havin a indian passport????
I provided u the links it upon u to accept them or not!

headly was investigated by Indian authorities by then and our home sec was stating the facts that were revealed by him during the investigation....so if u are un aware abt it stop making a statement


same applys for u

Ur priorities arent ours..... terror is our first priority

as for the bolded part go read my post once again its clearly written WHOKONWS that means its an assumption i never said he did...go and comprehend it once again

the links u provided r worthless so keep them to urself