India has raised the stakes

[nForce]

you seem to be implying that pakistan had a choice

it had no choice during the cold war and it had no choice post 9/11, thats because pak has never had a leadership with enough of a spine to say NO to the west, if you say no you can see the fate or iran yourself in how they have become a pariah state

india is another story, it cannot be bullied into conflicts

As touched on above, we had no choice due to our strategic disposition to become embroiled in the Soviet occupation. If the Red Army is next door, you don't want them banging on your door next. We were compelled to protect our territory.

What we weren't so good at (and we haven't been post 9/11), is how to extract maximum gain for our services. We've been exploited, but haven't done well economically out of it as we should've.

And there was no way we were not going to take part in the WoT. The pressure we were under was unlike any we'd seen before. Factor in India saying "we'll help you Sir", and we weren't in a position to sit on the sidelines. An ugly necessity.

I agree with both of you that Pakistan had no choice when time came to make the choice,whether in case of involvement in Afghanistan against Soviet invasion or the US-led War on Terror.

What I am trying to point out,is a chain of events led Pakistan to make these harsh choices.
While India stayed out of any kind of military alliance,Pakistan,back in the 1960s under the rule of Ayub Khan entered into global military alliance with U.S. against Soviet Union.While the short term goals were met,as aid started flowing from the West,and industries
developed rapidly,but with this step,Pakistan actually narrowed the scope for a more global exposure.please notice the fact that at this time,Pakistan was under no direct threat by Soviet union.The deal for military alliance was done for the sake of economic benefits,and the objectives were nonetheless met.


But a military alliance with a super power,against another super power has its consequences. It was during this time,back in the 1960s, that Pakistan first let the US to use Pakistani Airbases.Pakistan let USAF establish communications monitoring facility near Peshawar at Badaber and use its air space and air bases to conduct high-altitude spy-flights over the USSR.The cold war was at its peak at that time.

Then came the famous U-2 spy plane incident.The USAF U-2 spy plane that was shot down on May 1 ,1960 over Soviet airspace,had actually taken off from Peshawar before entering Soviet Airspace.It did not take long to find out the roots of origin of the plane.This was a direct act of hostility by Pakistan against the USSR.It was from this time that Pakistan came in the bad book of the Soviet.

The military relations of Pakistan with US grew over the time,with the US pouring in military hardware.When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979,by that time the theatre was already set,and the decisions taken in the past were dictating the present.At this time,Pakistan was in fact threatened by the Soviet presence in its immediate neighbourhood,as Pakistan was already too much militarily involved with US and created a bad relation with USSR,following major incidents like that of the U-2 and numerous other minor incidents.

Henceforth,at this point of time,Pakistan had no choice but to directly support the US interests in Afghanistan.Well,we all know the aftereffects.While the US interests were served,they left as soon as their objective was met,leaving Pakistani border regions in a mess,unimaginable amount of military hardware in the hands of the mujaheddin,with virtually no body neither controlling them nor disarming them.As we can see now,the Frankenstein's monster is still haunting the World in general and Pakistan in particular.

Now as you may perceive,that choices were always there,provided right choices were made.This is just a single example.Lots of other geo-political factors are also there.But,an online forum has its own limitations.Perhaps we can meet face to face someday and discuss these issues,make South Asia a better place to live.What do you say???

 

[jbond197]

^ At least the first link and the secondhas that information. I didn't even bother reading the one after that. So do read the article before getting ahead of yourself.

Btw, this was in the same press conference where Krishna said that India has not received any evidence on Balochistan. Indians were all over that, from my memory.

I don;t know what u r talking about

1. None of the links provided were neutral.
2. Both the links carries claims made by Quereshi that Indian FM said something which may be a fake claim. Where is the proof of Indian FM acknowledging the allegations? Does the links provided contains any statement by Indian FM ? To me, it was another Quereshis attempt to build up fake story nothing more.

if you see something worthwhile in the articles you r defending point it out to me. Keep one thing in mind I don't believe what ur FM claims as that is just made for Pakistan's domenstic consumption with no truth in it.

 

[Developereo]

If you're downplaying the role of a wealthy overseas contingent, who are well integrated, on the whole pretty successful and well qualified, then you can do so. I see the strides that NRI's are making, and their influence will grow. It's early days, but just like the Jews who've done incredibly well say here in the UK, then the Indian's are moving in that direction. And I would say that NRI's (British born for example), are more integrated into the British way of life than Pakistani's.

Note: most of my comments are about the US; I am not as familiar with the situation in other Western countries.

I am not disputing the qualifications or accomplishments of NRIs. I am presenting the reasons why an Indian will win over an equally qualified Pakistani in the West. It has partly to do with deeply ingrained anti-muslim and anti-Pakistani prejudices and stereotypes. It has to do with the West's desire to prop up India as a counter to China and as a proxy to attack Pakistan, which is enemy-number -one to the dominant Zionist media. It has to do with gaining access to Indian markets. As I stated elsewhere, Fareed Zakaria is on CNN for the benefit of its Indian audience, not American. There were a number of cases at the BBC where British-Pakistanis complained of systematic discrimination by, and in favor of, British-Indians.

And I don't buy Obama sitting there and saying "I need to please Indians, let me get some of them involved in my set-up".

Then you don't understand American culture. It is obsessed with race and appearances. Obama's antics are directly related to the American desire to pamper India, for reasons already stated.

And even if he did, then that agrees with the point I'm making, and that is India's clout is growing and will continue to grow.

No, it puts the cart before the horse. India doesn't have clout because of her NRIs; her NRIs benefit because the West wants to pamper India.

The way we're managing our country will see us continuing to head in the opposite direction.

Completely agree.

I have always maintained that, in terms of challenging India, Pakistan has put all its focus on the military and completely ignored two major avenues, i.e. economy and soft power. We will get far better results on Kashmir (and other issues) if we are strong economically and get our propaganda, er message, across through soft power.

Your point regarding JV's seems a slight contradiction. You say the need for it is nonsense, and then say that the only reason that Russia is doing it is for the money.

I already acknowledged that Indian economy is a big draw for many countries. I was refuting the point -- perhaps I misread -- that Russia was in it for technology.

Again the point about 'Russia wanting to annoy the West' is without foundation

Russia is lamenting its loss as a global superpower and (military) equal to the US. Russian nationalism is deeply hurt and it will take every opporunity to remind the West that it still matters.

I come back to the overriding point and that is India's clout is growing due to many factors. Whether you agree with the points I make or not, their progress, diversification in trading partners etc is of importance and directly impinges whatever voice we have to make our concerns acknowledged and actioned on.

I already stated the reasons for India's importance to the West. It has to do with China's rise, first and foremost. A secondary consideration is the Indian economy. A final consideration is containing Pakistan, which is hated by the Zionists.

NRIs are a factor in India's economic growth and are helping Indian clout indirectly, but they have no direct impact on Western policy. Put it this way, if an NRI recommended something that went against Zionist interests, he would be out the door instantly.

nice attempt to cheapshot NRIs as tech support but they're making their way to the top of US technology and financial corporations as managers / researchers. They're also among the most successful enterpreneurs.

a lot of the intellectual property owned by the western technology companies is generated by indians and lots of research divisions at companies like apple / google / microsoft are headed by indians.

a lot of them are leading researchers in business and deans/profs at the top b schools, which are the bastions of top level business cliques.

i won't comment much about how/if this translates into political power (because i don't understand that well), but reaching the upper end of the finance/business/bschool/tech/enterpreneur community sure is a nice way to start off.

All of your point are valid -- and irrelevant. The issue here is political clout, which the NRIs enjoy only at the behest of Zionist interests.

The secondary issue is the numbers game. India has exported huge numbers of IT professionals, so it is only natural that it would have a high number of successful IT entrepreneurs abroad.

In any case, your post actually proves my point. The NRIs have shone primarily because of the recent influx of hitech professionals. The old guard NRIs were neither exceptionally educated, nor wealthy.

What i want you to ponder over is what is that extra that India has apart from similarities with China that west is after us

- Like China our markets are very lucrative...
- Like China we are projected to be economic hub ...
- Like China we have loads and loads of manpower....

one simple answer would be we have no clash of interests with western world....Now think why???

The simple answer would be that the West believes India can be contained and controlled much easier than China. China's growth is based on manufacturing, which is a solid foundation for an economy. India's growth, on the other hand, is mostly due to a service economy which is far easier to replace with competitors.

Its funny how people just undermine a whopping amount like $60 Billion....

What matters is not the absolute number but the percentage of GDP. Point being, would China hesitate on an important national security issue over the loss of 60 billion? Answer is no.

If that is the case then why they don't given such a pea-nut amount to their all-weather friend especially when they need $$$ badly???

The ineptness of GOP is out of scope for this discussion.

Also please remember China is India's biggest trading partner...

Then it is bad policy by Indian government to depend so heavily on a future competitor.

B/W above you were quoting that west consider China as potential challenger and here you are quoting US has perfectly normal relations with China...

Perhaps normal is too strong. US has cordial diplomatic relations with China.

 

[Hutchroy]

While India stayed out of any kind of military alliance,Pakistan,back in the 1960s under the rule of Ayub Khan entered into global military alliance with U.S. against Soviet Union.

This is an "Understatement bordering on Misrepresentation"

The following explains the actual quest of Pakistan i.e. to beat the Living Daylight out of India :

THE ORIGINS AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PAKISTAN-US MILITARY ALLIANCE : Hamza Alavi

Pakistan's disputes and confrontations with India and Afghanistan, especially confrontation with India over Kashmir and the dispute over division of the waters of the Indus basin, were no doubt central to the making of Pakistan's foreign policy immediately after independence. These conflicts have continued in one form or another over the years. It is a common mistake, however to interpret Pakistan's foreign policy too narrowly in the context of its conflicts with its neighbors for that obscures the extent to which Pakistan has in effect been increasingly drawn into the Middle East as from the mid-fifties, not so much in terms of the so-called 'Islamic ideology' but
rather in terms of the role that Pakistan was made to assume in Western military strategy for the Middle East. By the early 1950s Pakistan's relationship with the US was set on a new course,
culminating in a military alliance.

Objectives of the Military Alliance: There is a pervasive view that the object and the effect of Pakistan's military alliance with the US was to strengthen it vis-a-vis India. That is how Indian nationalist scholars and politicians have represented that alliance. That is also how Pakistan's rulers themselves have sought to justify it.

I hope you are aware that Hamza Alavi was a Leading Pakistani Sociologist and Activist.

 

[nForce]

This is an "Understatement bordering on Misrepresentation"

The following explains the actual quest of Pakistan i.e. to beat the Living Daylight out of India :

THE ORIGINS AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PAKISTAN-US MILITARY ALLIANCE : Hamza Alavi



I hope you are aware that Hamza Alavi was a Leading Pakistani Sociologist and Activist.

You interpreted my post wrongly.Oh well,I am kind of responsible for that.I did not mean that Pakistan entered into global military alliance in order to go against Soviet Union.

What I wanted to mean is Pakistan went ahead with the global military alliance ,to serve its own interests.But the implication of the deal was it made Pakistan anti-Soviet.

 

[linkinpark]

India has been raising stakes all along but got a fillip in the last decade due to impressive economic growth which has left Pakistan far behind and thus offering a good market which all western economies want a pie of. Obviously, this has made other countries to toe the line of India which in most cases is justified. David Cameroon is no different.

Stakes will be raised further as Indian economy continues to grow and turns the tide in its favor totally and will resolve all the conflicts with Pakistan to its own satisfaction. Pakistan is losing the battle of attrition.

 

[Tshering22]

Let the stakes rise automatically and continuously. Let the numbers talk and let's be silent. If we work good enough, numbers will continue going up.

 

[deckingraj]

The simple answer would be that the West believes India can be contained and controlled much easier than China. China's growth is based on manufacturing, which is a solid foundation for an economy. India's growth, on the other hand, is mostly due to a service economy which is far easier to replace with competitors.

Are you serious about what you just wrote??? If yes then my friend please wake up and change your thoughts....CHina or India are not producing something new that west does not know...be it service..be it products....The way west can easily replace service sector with competitors the same way west can easily replace manufacturing hub with competitors...The only point is who are those competitors that can manufacture products at such a cheap rate like china...and who can provide such a service sector at the cost that India provides.....

pasting some links for you...

India: the next mobile manufacturing hub | Unwireindia | india, blog, news, latest, review, mobile, telecom, sports, cricket, education, exams, results, admission, tourism, incredible india, launch, press release, startup, reports, internet, mobile u

India - A Global Manufacturing HUB - | Innovation Case Studies | Business Management Innovation Cases | Case Study

Yamaha to make India a manufacturing hub for exporting bikes-Two-wheelers-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

The Hindu Business Line : India as a manufacturing hub

So saying that India can be easily contained and controlled is just wishful thinking...It is common sense that if i am economic power house rest of the things will follow....B/W Indian economy is still majorly internal econmomy and that's the reason global recession did not hit us as bad as west..so please ponder over it once again....

What matters is not the absolute number but the percentage of GDP. Point being, would China hesitate on an important national security issue over the loss of 60 billion? Answer is no.

NAme one country who will hesitate on important national security for any percentage of GDP???? POint is what in your eyes are those important national security matter that China feels so threatened from India or vice versa??? Also what would be the parameters which will tell us if both are on collision course or not???

- Trade is improving in quality and quantity
- Borders are still peaceful
- China and India are supporting each other on various global issue, climate change being top in the list
- Billateral relations are improving considerably

so not sure where do you sign's of collision....Yes there is and going to be a healthy competition b/w two and if they do not handle it well there can be collision but as of now there are no such signs and in fact both have handled it well...above points gives the same inclination...So saying they are on verge of collision or will certainly collide is wrong.....In fact as of now both are geared up to improve economy and become super-powers in their own respect..so collision for atleast a decade or two is a big no-no.....

The ineptness of GOP is out of scope for this discussion.

Sure, however the point i was trying to drive is $60 billion and potential to grow manifolds is not a pea-nut....This amount is almost equal to their entire defence budget....

Then it is bad policy by Indian government to depend so heavily on a future competitor.

I am sorry but this is wrong....We all are conviced that US and CHina are future competitor...now may i say how much is the trade b/w US and China??? it is 5 times the amount i quoted above....Trade is one way to engage your competitor...Engagement is always better then Solitude....

Perhaps normal is too strong. US has cordial diplomatic relations with China.

You are right...However they have lot of reasons for conflict which are much bigger then petty border issue b/w India and China...So if they both can maintain cordial relations not sure what are your resevations when it comes to India-China...

 

[whocares]

Note: most of my comments are about the US; I am not as familiar with the situation in other Western countries.

No, it puts the cart before the horse. India doesn't have clout because of her NRIs; her NRIs benefit because the West wants to pamper India.

I already stated the reasons for India's importance to the West. It has to do with China's rise, first and foremost. A secondary consideration is the Indian economy. A final consideration is containing Pakistan, which is hated by the Zionists.

NRIs are a factor in India's economic growth and are helping Indian clout indirectly, but they have no direct impact on Western policy. Put it this way, if an NRI recommended something that went against Zionist interests, he would be out the door instantly.



All of your point are valid -- and irrelevant. The issue here is political clout, which the NRIs enjoy only at the behest of Zionist interests.


In any case, your post actually proves my point. The NRIs have shone primarily because of the recent influx of hitech professionals. The old guard NRIs were neither exceptionally educated, nor wealthy.

Your obsession with Zionism borders on madness. Its not the only factor in american politics.

Lets first talk economics

1. Indian NRIs do not benefit due to being indian. What kind of bull **** is that?
an NRI has no advantage over a Chinese or East European immigrant or any other kind in the american marketplace.
a Pakistani immigrant may now be disadvantaged compared to everyone else yes, but that has little to do with zionism and more to do with 9/11, 7/7 etc.

2. Its not just high tech bozo. We are right there at the top of the business world, including finance. Remember Shaukat Aziz? enter Vikram Pandit and co.

Let me try and comment on the politics now.

1. I can't for the life of me understand what you call the Zionist interests. Both spectrums in american politics agree on the Zion question.

2. Indian - US politics is itself a fairly complex and robust process, primarily rooted in economic interests. there are questions there which have nothing to do with israel at all. there are negotiations on trade policy which are very important.
NRIs have some clout here and it does not have anything to do with supporting Israel. Economic policy questions are orthogonal to security policy.

3. India - US politics on the security question is also neutral right now. US is not helping india in any direct way except selling military equipment.
Do NRIs have influence here? i don't think so.

So net net you're condescencion of indians being nothing but at the hands of the jews is deeply offensive.
'Zionists Interests' do not determine how economic relations with india evolve and those are the relations most important to India.

 

[Hutchroy]

This is an "Understatement bordering on Misrepresentation"

The following explains the actual quest of Pakistan i.e. to beat the Living Daylight out of India :

THE ORIGINS AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PAKISTAN-US MILITARY ALLIANCE : Hamza Alavi

I hope you are aware that Hamza Alavi was a Leading Pakistani Sociologist and Activist.

You interpreted my post wrongly.Oh well,I am kind of responsible for that.I did not mean that Pakistan entered into global military alliance in order to go against Soviet Union.

What I wanted to mean is Pakistan went ahead with the global military alliance ,to serve its own interests.But the implication of the deal was it made Pakistan anti-Soviet.

My reference to Hamza Alavi's Article is basically to point out that your statement "While India stayed out of any kind of military alliance, Pakistan, back in the 1960s under the rule of Ayub Khan entered into global military alliance with U.S. against Soviet Union was incorrect to the extent that Pakistan commenced entering the "US & other Western Powers" Defence Blocs and getting access to "Military Aid" officially in the early 1950s.

In fact Mr. Jinnah sent Mr. Liaqat Ali with a Delegation to the USA soon after gaining Independence and ask for US Arms Aid to Fight "Communism" which at that time not only was aimed at the Soviet Union but also China. I believe the "Theme" used was that Communism was incompatible with Islam.

All the Arms Aid was intended to be used against Pakistan's immediate perceived Enemy i.e. India.

 

[Developereo]

The way west can easily replace service sector with competitors the same way west can easily replace manufacturing hub with competitors...

No, that's the whole point. It is much easier to relocate an IT shop or a call center than it is to relocate a manufacturing supply chain. That's just a fact of life.

The only point is who are those competitors that can manufacture products at such a cheap rate like china...and who can provide such a service sector at the cost that India provides.....

Few countries have managed to challenge China in manufacturing economies of scale. India, however, is already losing bids to Vietnam, Philippines and Eastern Europe. I am not saying India is in any danger of losing its service sector economy, just illustrating a point about flexibility in service sector.

pasting some links for you...

India: the next mobile manufacturing hub | Unwireindia | india, blog, news, latest, review, mobile, telecom, sports, cricket, education, exams, results, admission, tourism, incredible india, launch, press release, startup, reports, internet, mobile u

India - A Global Manufacturing HUB - | Innovation Case Studies | Business Management Innovation Cases | Case Study

Yamaha to make India a manufacturing hub for exporting bikes-Two-wheelers-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

The Hindu Business Line : India as a manufacturing hub

All those links are from Indian sources. Even if you dig up some Western sources who say what the Indian audience wants to hear, nobody seriously expects India to become a global manufacturing hub on China's scale any time soon.

Also what would be the parameters which will tell us if both are on collision course or not???

Contention for resources, particularly water, and regional dominance.

In fact as of now both are geared up to improve economy and become super-powers in their own respect..so collision for atleast a decade or two is a big no-no.....

I didn't say a collision is imminent, only that it is inevitable. And both sides know it.

now may i say how much is the trade b/w US and China??? it is 5 times the amount i quoted above....Trade is one way to engage your competitor...Engagement is always better then Solitude....

My personal feeling is that China is loaning money to the US so it can continue to buy Chinese products and help China's economy grow. Another reason is that China needs to make sure its existing loans and reserves do not get devalued if the USD slumps too much.

Once China feels it can dispense with the US consumer, there will be no need to prop up their economy.

Your obsession with Zionism borders on madness. Its not the only factor in american politics.

Have you spent any significant amount of time living in the US? If not then you have no appreciation for how utterly dominant the Zionist lobby is in American politics, particularly foreign policy issues in our region.

Even a hugely popular president like Obama was in the doghouse after his previous treatment of Netanyahu. He knew he had to make good with Israel or else...

an NRI has no advantage over a Chinese or East European immigrant or any other kind in the american marketplace.

Actually he does, because of better English, but there's nothing wrong with that advantage.

a Pakistani immigrant may now be disadvantaged compared to everyone else yes, but that has little to do with zionism and more to do with 9/11, 7/7 etc.

No, Pakistan has been in the Zionist crosshairs for a long time. This is nothing new.

2. Its not just high tech bozo. We are right there at the top of the business world, including finance. Remember Shaukat Aziz? enter Vikram Pandit and co.

NRIs in business benefit the Indian economy and their success is proportionate to their numbers but it doesn't necessarily translate into political clout, specifically foreign policy.

1. I can't for the life of me understand what you call the Zionist interests. Both spectrums in american politics agree on the Zion question.

And therein lies your blind spot. Do you honestly think this state of affairs in American politics just happened to come by, and is sustained, by pure chance? Especially in a rich and powerful country like the US where everybody and their dog wants to wield influence?

Here's a primer for you to even begin to undersand the immense power of the Zionist lobby: LRB · John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby

2. Indian - US politics is itself a fairly complex and robust process, primarily rooted in economic interests. there are questions there which have nothing to do with israel at all. there are negotiations on trade policy which are very important.

Of course most matters, domestic and foreign, are unrelated to Israel, but those matters are not germane to our discussion. In matters related to India, the three main considerations are China, Israel (i.e. containing Pakistan) and India's economy. The third is insignificant for the US and will take a back seat if it runs counter to the first two. How long do you think India could sustain its economic growth if there was a US-led trade embargo by the West?

NRIs have some clout here and it does not have anything to do with supporting Israel.

The point is that if India was against Israel, NRI's would have zero clout.

US is not helping india in any direct way except selling military equipment.

India is operating in Afghanistan under US guardianship.

So net net you're condescencion of indians being nothing but at the hands of the jews is deeply offensive.

Perhaps you should first understand the difference between jews and Zionists before offering opinions on either.

'Zionists Interests' do not determine how economic relations with india evolve and those are the relations most important to India.

Zionist interests may not directly help India, but running counter to them would be the death knell for India's economy. Get it?

 

[Hulk]

It is right that India can lose IT business to other countries if we do not stay competetive. People working in IT are looking for rise year after year without realising it is making us less competative.

 

[whocares]

@Developereo :

you're smarter than i thought

i do understand brainwashing exercises in america by interests having followed the latest bamboozling by the bankers. i had no idea about foreign policy lobyying though, having found geo politics to be a waste of time until recently.

this is an interesting piece, but let me check the counterpoints.

 

[HariSeldon]

Sorry for jumping in between

No, that's the whole point. It is much easier to relocate an IT shop or a call center than it is to relocate a manufacturing supply chain. That's just a fact of life.
Few countries have managed to challenge China in manufacturing economies of scale. India, however, is already losing bids to Vietnam, Philippines and Eastern Europe. I am not saying India is in any danger of losing its service sector economy, just illustrating a point about flexibility in service sector.

Are you sure about relocation of services part? Try starting up center for 1000 seats in year time for servicing English speaking client. And I am not talking abt only IT shop. Try hiring 100 number crunchers in 6 months. In IN somebody planning to hire 1K in year is not even newsworthy.
Building factories are easy part. Manpower is difficult part.
I have yet to see any country making any impact in service industry either at low end or high end. My prev comp tried to start 100 seat ops in Philippines. After 2 year we were still trying to get no to 100.

All those links are from Indian sources. Even if you dig up some Western sources who say what the Indian audience wants to hear, nobody seriously expects India to become a global manufacturing hub on China's scale any time soon.



Contention for resources, particularly water, and regional dominance.



I didn't say a collision is imminent, only that it is inevitable. And both sides know it.



My personal feeling is that China is loaning money to the US so it can continue to buy Chinese products and help China's economy grow. Another reason is that China needs to make sure its existing loans and reserves do not get devalued if the USD slumps too much.

Once China feels it can dispense with the US consumer, there will be no need to prop up their economy.

hmmmm....Intresting...and what will happen to loan that China has given to US. Basically CN is subsidyzing West consumers at the expense of CN citizens. And where will CN will sell its huge factory output if not West\US. Certainly not internally as because of this subsidy profits are going back to US in form of loan, instead of upgrading the lifestyle of CN ctzn. And as CN is running trade deficit with every country, sooner rather than later nobody will have money to buy the CN goods. Which means either CN will keep loaning money to everybody to keep its factories running or allow appreciation of its currency making its produce un-competitive. Welcome to Econ101. ;-)


Also, try to read up on the perils of one child policy. There is real danger of CN getting old before becoming developed country.

Have you spent any significant amount of time living in the US? If not then you have no appreciation for how utterly dominant the Zionist lobby is in American politics, particularly foreign policy issues in our region.

Even a hugely popular president like Obama was in the doghouse after his previous treatment of Netanyahu. He knew he had to make good with Israel or else...



Actually he does, because of better English, but there's nothing wrong with that advantage.



No, Pakistan has been in the Zionist crosshairs for a long time. This is nothing new.

Well I can bet 99.9% of Indian (including its muslims) have to knowledge abt this zion thing. No idea how much truth is in these.

NRIs in business benefit the Indian economy and their success is proportionate to their numbers but it doesn't necessarily translate into political clout, specifically foreign policy.

Agreed. Just to add, I guess general ppl on street when hear abt there Govt doing business with IN, they don't have any negative feeling. I will attribute this to NRI's.

And therein lies your blind spot. Do you honestly think this state of affairs in American politics just happened to come by, and is sustained, by pure chance? Especially in a rich and powerful country like the US where everybody and their dog wants to wield influence?

Here's a primer for you to even begin to undersand the immense power of the Zionist lobby: LRB · John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby



Of course most matters, domestic and foreign, are unrelated to Israel, but those matters are not germane to our discussion. In matters related to India, the three main considerations are China, Israel (i.e. containing Pakistan) and India's economy. The third is insignificant for the US and will take a back seat if it runs counter to the first two. How long do you think India could sustain its economic growth if there was a US-led trade embargo by the West?

And which country can survive if rest of world gangs up against it. Even if its mighty US.
As for CN, my friend, US is not able to get us involved in AF millitararily, how in name of galaxy they can use us against CN? IN and CN are fighting together against US and West in WTO (for farms trade) and climate meets.
And remember Nuke deal, its US who is still to get there hands wet while all other countries are swiming in contracts IN has signed with them. Reason, the liability bill. They want liability of there vendors to be capped at 125 mil. Govt tried to table the bill in parliament. In face of opposition they have to withdraw the bill.
Sweet democrazy at works.

The point is that if India was against Israel, NRI's would have zero clout.

And why should we be against Israel. But them this is rhehotrical q, right?

India is operating in Afghanistan under US guardianship.



Perhaps you should first understand the difference between jews and Zionists before offering opinions on either.



Zionist interests may not directly help India, but running counter to them would be the death knell for India's economy. Get it?

Nope. I suggest you have hard look at IN eco. We are consuming lot of stuff that we produce. And for export, except IT, we are not very much dependent on US. Troubles? Yes. Slow Growth? Yes. Death Knell. NOPE

 

[deckingraj]

No, that's the whole point. It is much easier to relocate an IT shop or a call center than it is to relocate a manufacturing supply chain. That's just a fact of life.

The point i am delivering is that as long as manufacturing hub or service sector is cheap it will stay....The moment it is not profitable these so called hubs will be changed....

If anyone will provide a better/similar product at cheap price then china manufacturing hub will be changed....Similarly if anyone will provide a cheap but similar service the so called service sector will change...it is as simple as that..Now both china and India have huge workforce so to churn out a similar product/service is not an easy task as it sounds.....

As said before India's economy is majorly internal economy....We have deficit when it comes to trade so please ponder over your original point that India can easily be contained......

Few countries have managed to challenge China in manufacturing economies of scale. India, however, is already losing bids to Vietnam, Philippines and Eastern Europe. I am not saying India is in any danger of losing its service sector economy, just illustrating a point about flexibility in service sector.

I agree with you here....However what we all are missing is that why is China a preferred destination for importing manufactured goods??? Answer is plane and simple - Cheap Goods....Now i do not want to derail our discussion with how they have managed to do it and how sustainable it is however they are also loosing bids to same countries you have just mentioned...However these countries cannot match the scale of India as well as China and thus not a threat.....

B/W here is an interesting read...This kinds of tell you the power of service sector over manufacturing sector as far as growth is concerned...

Services sector: An alternative route to high growth? | The Jakarta Post

All those links are from Indian sources. Even if you dig up some Western sources who say what the Indian audience wants to hear, nobody seriously expects India to become a global manufacturing hub on China's scale any time soon.

Not sure when we will get over this Indian source/Western Source phobia....Tell me what source you think is credible??? B/W Indian sources are not bashing pakistan here...They are discussing about the potential of India and i don't see any reason for them to be bias...

Contention for resources, particularly water, and regional dominance.

Then that is true for US and China.....atleast the dominance part...so why you think they are not potential threats to each other???? The point which i am deriving and you missing is that both have managed to keep relation healthy and improving them considerably as we speak.....Yes we are potential adversaries however the key is engagement and we both are on right track.....

I didn't say a collision is imminent, only that it is inevitable. And both sides know it.

Inevitable is a strong word here...Anyways as said the key is engagement and we are on right track....

My personal feeling is that China is loaning money to the US so it can continue to buy Chinese products and help China's economy grow. Another reason is that China needs to make sure its existing loans and reserves do not get devalued if the USD slumps too much.

Once China feels it can dispense with the US consumer, there will be no need to prop up their economy.

Even though i have lot to disagree but for the sake of argument don't you see you just said the basic point i was delivering as far as engagement is concerned???? With such a huge amount of trade both have locked up their fortunes and any conflict is going to hurt economy of both....