India hands letter to Pakistan High Commissioner

[linkinpark]

Is gaining the moral high-ground going to help us get justice?

Lets assume that India agrees to cooperate, and the court proceedings begin.

Immediately, the pressure is off Pakistan's back, because the matter is being contested in the court!

The case will drag on, give a not-guilty verdict eventually, and the terrorist camps will continue to flourish in the meantime, all in the name of charity of course.

Considering what is at stake it should be in a time-bound manner and should be given high priority, otherwise it will be a non-starter to begin with.

 

[Flintlock]

Assuming all of what you say is true, none of that will change if you do not share evidence, and it gives Pakistan an extremely credible reason and justification to not do anything, while increasing support for the organizations amongst the public since they continue to view them as innocent, and therefore strengthening them.

Well, lets wait and see if and when India is formally handing over evidence.

On bypassing the system, I am completely against it, as are most Pakistanis. The system may be flawed, but it is flawed because it has been bypassed by so many actors and entities. Continuing to bypass institutions and the system is no way of strengthening the system.

Using a broken system is not going to strengthen it either. It will simply lend it undeserved credibility.

Secondly, the Indian judicial and law enforcement system is nothing to boast about either, with rampant corruption and inefficiencies.

Not related to the discussion However, it can be trusted to give an unbiased verdict.

India is not getting and Pakistani nationals - period. That has been stated explicitly, nor has the US/UK made that demand of Pakistan. India is alone on that count.

Why ever not? If you want to cooperate, let us try them in our courts? How exactly is it hurting Pakistan.
Most of these guys are already listed as terrorists by several international agencies and in several countries.

 

[Flintlock]

Considering what is at stake it should be in a time-bound manner and should be given high priority, otherwise it will be a non-starter to begin with.

I think I've exhausted all the possibilities at this point.

Lets wait and watch.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well, lets wait and see if and when India is formally handing over evidence.

Quite frankly, as I said elsewhere, this brouhaha from India's side is ridiculous since you stated that P Mukkerjee has said the investigation is not even complete on India's side. So what exactly are the demands about?

Using a broken system is not going to strengthen it either. It will simply lend it undeserved credibility.

The legal system is not 'broken', it is flawed due to corruption and inefficiencies similar to the Indian system and many other developing countries.

Continuing to bypass the system continues to reduce faith in it and continues to exacerbate the problem, therefore it should be resorted to at all times. Not resorting to the system will guarantee that it remains flawed.

Why ever not? If you want to cooperate, let us try them in our courts? How exactly is it hurting Pakistan.
Most of these guys are already listed as terrorists by several international agencies and in several countries.

Pakistanis will not be extradited because there is no treaty or law governing extradition to India.

To do so would be a violation of the laws of Pakistan.

 

[Flintlock]

Quite frankly, as I said elsewhere, this brouhaha from India's side is ridiculous since you stated that P Mukkerjee has said the investigation is not even complete on India's side. So what exactly are the demands about?

Pakistan is supposed to act on what it already knows, and not what it gets from India.

As I have been repeating many many times, Pakistan knows the what, where and who of the terrorists. They simply need to act which they are refusing to do, or doing so reluctantly and half-heartedly because of international pressure.

The legal system is not 'broken', it is flawed due to corruption and inefficiencies similar to the Indian system and many other developing countries.

I disagree. It is broken because it is not independent.

Continuing to bypass the system continues to reduce faith in it and continues to exacerbate the problem, therefore it should be resorted to at all times. Not resorting to the system will guarantee that it remains flawed.

Again, using a broken system will not strengthen it. First Pakistan need to put the fundamentals of the system in place.

Pakistanis will not be extradited because there is no treaty or law governing extradition to India.
To do so would be a violation of the laws of Pakistan.

Well then fine, offer to sign an extradition treaty with India and hand them over.

They are international terrorist after all, wanted by interpol as well.

Incidentally, Pakistan even refused Britain to interrogate suspects in their country. Why did they do that? Is Britain an enemy nation?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan is supposed to act on what it already knows, and not what it gets from India.

As I have been repeating many many times, Pakistan knows the what, where and who of the terrorists. They simply need to act which they are refusing to do, or doing so reluctantly and half-heartedly because of international pressure.

There is no evidence we have any intercepts of conversations like the Indians that are really the smoking guns here. We do not have any access to the captured terrorist to corroborate any claims about who he was linked to or who trained him.

All we have is your say so that "Pakistan has all the evidence'. Show me what it has.

I disagree. It is broken because it is not independent.

Again, using a broken system will not strengthen it. First Pakistan need to put the fundamentals of the system back in place.

Violating the system again is no way to start off on rebuilding it. That is why Musharraf and the PML-Q lost - people were tired of seeing the system violated and Musharraf, as a dictator, represented the worst of that. That is also why there is so much opposition to the US air strikes in Pakistan.

Well then fine, offer to sign an extradition treaty with India and hand them over.

They are international terrorist after all, wanted by interpol as well.

Coincidentally, Pakistan even refused Britain to interrogate suspects in their country. Why did they do that? Is Britain an enemy nation?

An extradition treaty occurs after detailed negotiations and engagement, and so far the Indians are refusing to cooperate. Doubt a treaty will be forthcoming in this atmosphere, it would not be politically feasible.

India is stuck with the Pakistani system due to her own belligerence.

Britain put forth a request, Pakistan refused. We are well within our rights to do so. However in the case of India we have welcomed a joint investigation from day one. Perhaps India should take that up and engage with Pakistan and suggest the inclusion of the Brits and Yanks in some capacity.

 

[Flintlock]

There is no evidence we have any intercepts of conversations like the Indians that are really the smoking guns here. We do not have any access to the captured terrorist to corroborate any claims about who he was linked to or who trained him
All we have is your say so that "Pakistan has all the evidence'. Show me what it has

People are being given arms training for many many years in Pakistan by the same faces who pop up repeatedly in hijackings/bombings etc. They have been blacklisted around the world.

You have terrorist camps on your soil, which journalists have visited and given full-blown descriptions of.

Are you telling me that inspite of all this, Pakistan is waiting for voice transcripts from India?

Here's a suggestion - do what India does to terrorists. Raid their camps and kill them.

India (and the rest of the world) is simply asking Pakistan to do what it should have done a long time ago. Terror strikes in Mumbai or not.

Violating the system again is no way to start off on rebuilding it. That is why Musharraf and the PML-Q lost - people were tired of seeing the system violated and Musharraf, as a dictator, represented the worst of that. That is also why there is so much opposition to the US air strikes in Pakistan.

Sorry, but India's priority is getting the culprits in hand, not rebuilding Pakistan's institutions.
If you guys are so keen to do so, reinstate the CJ and give the bugger some autonomy first.

An extradition treaty occurs after detailed negotiations and engagement, and so far the Indians are refusing to cooperate. Doubt a treaty will be forthcoming in this atmosphere, it would not be politically feasible.

Pakistan had agreed to cooperate fully. I believe extradition is part of "full cooperation".

India is stuck with the Pakistani system due to her own belligerence.

The Pakistani system was never there for India. In the absence of belligerence from India, even these few arrests would not have happened.

Britain put forth a request, Pakistan refused. We are well within our rights to do so. However in the case of India we have welcomed a joint investigation from day one. Perhaps India should take that up and engage with Pakistan and suggest the inclusion of the Brits and Yanks in some capacity.

Yes, you are a sovereign nation etc etc...I know that.
But why did Pakistan refuse? Even India - which is under no pressure to do so - agreed to let FBI/ Scotland yard interrogate the "suspect".

The only explanation I can think of is that Pakistan is worried about what these suspects will divulge.

 

[HAIDER]

Until or unless Pak govt don't confront Kasab face to face and run its own investigation, with or without Indian co operation . All these letter are useless. Not more then black mailing tactics from India.

 

[Captain03]

a "letter" can be marked as evidence?!?
what rubbish

 

[linkinpark]

a "letter" can be marked as evidence?!?
what rubbish

It is not an evidence per se, but a mere proof that Kasab is a Pakistani national.

 

[Captain03]

It is not an evidence per se, but a mere proof that Kasab is a Pakistani national.

how is it a proof?
anybody can write a letter with anything written in it that doesnt make it the truth

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

People are being given arms training for many many years in Pakistan by the same faces who pop up repeatedly in hijackings/bombings etc. They have been blacklisted around the world.

You have terrorist camps on your soil, which journalists have visited and given full-blown descriptions of.

Are you telling me that inspite of all this, Pakistan is waiting for voice transcripts from India?

Here's a suggestion - do what India does to terrorists. Raid their camps and kill them.

India (and the rest of the world) is simply asking Pakistan to do what it should have done a long time ago. Terror strikes in Mumbai or not.

Those camps were designed to wage a proxy war against Indian security forces in Kashmir, nor for terrorism. The US, India and Pakistan all engaged in these types of proxy wars during various times in their history, so to label them 'terrorists' is self-serving

I disagree that all of those people should be arrested, since they served a role that was acceptable in even the US's eyes (and is possibly still considered acceptable via support for Jundulla in Iran). However, any of these individuals who were involved in a blatant terrorist attack such as the one in Mumbai should be arrested and tried, and their assets seized.

In any case, none of this stuff is direct evidence that links the perpetrators to Mumbai. Pakistan has taken some major steps by detaining Lakshvi and Saeed, and now awaits Indian cooperation for moving with the cases, AFAIK.

Sorry, but India's priority is getting the culprits in hand, not rebuilding Pakistan's institutions.
If you guys are so keen to do so, reinstate the CJ and give the bugger some autonomy first.

Pakistan does not exist to implement India's priorities. Circumventing our laws and our constitution on India's say so is not acceptable. Since now we have political parties controlling the system, politics will influence all attempts to change the system.

Pakistan had agreed to cooperate fully. I believe extradition is part of "full cooperation".

The Pakistani system was never there for India. In the absence of belligerence from India, even these few arrests would not have happened.

Yes, you are a sovereign nation etc etc...I know that.
But why did Pakistan refuse? Even India - which is under no pressure to do so - agreed to let FBI/ Scotland yard interrogate the "suspect".

The only explanation I can think of is that Pakistan is worried about what these suspects will divulge.

Pakistan has agreed to cooperate, but that doesn't mean violating her own laws and constitution. No country in the world would do that.

The Pakistani system was offered from the get go, India refused to accept. The belligerence has ensured that now any chances of an 'extradition treaty' are probably minimal.

Your speculation of why the GoP refused is just that - speculation. I believe it was because of domestic pressure, and the GoP did not want to be seen as accepting any diktat.

Whether the Brits are allowed access behind the scenes is another matter.

 

[linkinpark]

how is it a proof?
anybody can write a letter with anything written in it that doesnt make it the truth

Truth or not is to be decided by GoP based on the contents of the letter, not you.

 

[Awesome]

Seriously are the Indian leaders retarded? This is not evidence... Why are they wasting our time?

 

[Captain03]

Truth or not is to be decided by GoP based on the contents of the letter, not you.

thats retarded!!
the indian government didnt find any evidence so their gonna write a letter???
so lame