India gets short end in NATO bargain

[Hindustani]

China was created in 300 BC.

Only india was created 1945 because you were subjugated for 1000 years by foreign rulers since about the 10th century AD.

Read up on the Buddhist monk Xuanzang who visited India during the Tang Dynasty.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

The latest example of such a shift in policy has been Syria. Instead of taking a neutral stand, New Delhi has cast its lot with NATO. It has done the same in Iran, where instead of expanding trade with that country, even normal financial links have been severely cut back to conform to the commands of NATO.

Pure bullcrap!

India voting on Syria is more to do with its relations with its largest trading partner GCC.

Besides some level of links with NATO are essential for solving Afghan problems

Here is some NATO perspective on India.

Nato-india To Establish Deputy-level Points Of Contact

COMMENT: India's increasing contributions to
Afghanistan (REFTEL B) may be the driving force behind its
unprecedented outreach to NATO. The January 31 visit of
Pakistani PM Aziz with the NAC could be another motivation.
India has long been among NATO,s "contact countries" -- the
loosest category of partners -- but these contacts have been
limited by India's leadership of the Non-Aligned Movement.
Nevertheless, its extensive experience with multi-national
military operations in UN peacekeeping forces could provide
broad potential for cooperation. At its November 2006 Riga
Summit, NATO agreed to develop global partnerships --
offering enhanced tools for consulting and operating with
capable, like-minded democracies worldwide. From the U.S.
perspective, the NATO-India relationship is a natural fit,
although some Allies have reservations. The challenge for
NATO will be to balance its relationships in South Asia. End
Comment.
NULAND

 

[Wickerman]

Unfortunately for Pakistan, there seems to be a 5th column in that country who loves USA and wants to trade sovereignty and dignity for US $$$. Even in China there is a 5th column thinking the same way but they are not in control of politics or the military.

What sovereignty and dignity are you trading by actually trading with the Americans? I mean China at this point IS one of America's largest trading partner. You guys manufacture literally everything for the Americans at a fraction of the cost. You have opened up your economy for American investment and America sees you as a great market. American companies have set up shop in China and doing great. And China has benefitted big time from all of this. So does this mean you have traded yourselves and your dignity to the US for $$$? Nonsense.

So why would you not want Pakistan to do the same? Especially when they have potential? Maybe you want to control Pakistani trade and dictate terms to them? Or maybe you are afraid that America might snatch away your market in Pakistan?

And banding together to fight evil? Yeah right. In reality China and India have large trade relations. China and India even conduct military exercises together. So much for "fighting evil", when you band with "evil people" and do military exercises.

Pakistan is and increasingly in future, would become a geopolitical and geostrategic necessity for the Chinese.

India may not be able to wean the Chinese away from Pakistan, but can attempt to improve her own relations with them. That however, may not result in the kind of improvement India may seek. Indian MEA guys are pretty good at what they do.

India will improve trade relations with the Chinese. Our goal is not to wean China way from Pakistan, as this is not in our hands. But to improve our relations with China, so that both countries enjoy relations that cannot be broken by Pakistan. We have been moderately successful in this. And it will only improve.

BTW, this geopolitical and geostrategic necessity that you are talking about, has always been your Achilles heel. You continually let yourself be used by one power or another. How about asserting your sovereignty and improving relations with everybody and having an INDEPENDENT foreign policy instead of making policies that aims to pick up the scraps left by someone else's foreign policy? You need a foreign policy that will say NO to China, NO to America and NO to just about anybody IF IT IS NOT IN PAKISTAN'S INTEREST. Instead you base it on "They need us, so let us make the most out of this situation" kind of attitude. There is a total lack of foresight here.

Geopolitics doesn't have any religion, caste or creed. Just interests. If China's access gets restricted in SSC and ESC, it has only two options. Burma and Pakistan to access IOR. Chinese traders would want access to the sea and if that access is not provided or restricted, where would they go.

All of the military installations you said have been there for as long as I can remember. Why would America blockade the Chinese? I mean for what reason? To start a naval WAR with them? Most of your posts on geopolitics is based on WAR. Its based on some country being hostile to another or imaginary instances of two front wars and such. And about how Pakistan can leverage those imaginary instances to its benefit. Totally ridiculous. Wake up and understand the following:

1. The US will NEVER attack China
2. India will NEVER attack China
3. China will NEVER attack India or the US.

All of these 3 countries will keep improving their trade relations while you sit there HOPING that some misfortune will befall any of these nations and that will work in your favor. Good god man.

 

[surya kiran]

China was created in 300 BC.

.

And then conquered by Japan in less than 2 years The Japanese did not see any 'Sino Challenge' when they trooped in! You got LIBERATED by the Americans and british INDIAN army That would hurt real bad

 

[miss]

the current chinese are not the original inhabitants of china.
in fact chinei heard are not homo sapiens but some other species

 

[Ticker]

Hate to turn this India-NATO thread into Pakistan-China bhai bhai, china-America lara-ee lara-ee.

But unfortunately you continue inapt and inaccurate remarks over and over and over again. Such a pathetic situation here.

Yeap. The only ideology for the likes of you Sir is the "Begger ideology". Beg Arabs, get Jih@di money, beg China, get no money, then go back to America, This is what Islamo-socialists have been doing in Pakistan.

No will to work, just beg and call others who do work a "baniya". Shabash. very very Shabash.

Indian and Chinese have set up the best "shops" for providing products and services to American consumer. These shops are the model of humility, customer service, and quality.

American buyers love to visit both China and India "shops", dream about the visits, and treated by Chinese and Indians with utmost care and service.

Every country in the world is like a shop. What really matters is what they are selling, and how well they treat someone who may walk by.

The likes of you have turned Pakistani shop into a place that has mad-dog-mullies in the front, who bark and bite at everyone who passes by. Inside the Pakistani "shop" we could sell products similar to China and India. But no! the likes of you would rather sells "Islamist-terror, and Mohajir-terror" and kill any gora buyer who makes a mistake to come by.

Obviously you cannot be a "baniya" sir, you would rather be a begger or exporters of the likes of Shehzad-black-faced.

Time and again it has been shown that

masses work, the country leaders get political power

In Pakistan, masses do not work, they do politics based on Islamo-socialist idiot-ology ideology, hence our leaders are beggars.

But you won't know. Islamism cannot let you go beyond the dark Hujra and bait-ul-Khla.

peace

Firstly, let me remind you, that if you are a Muslim, Jihad is one of the five important pillars of Muslim religion. If you insult the piety of its true ideology, you are infact insulting and degrading your own self and what you believe in. Please don't use the word Jihad in the manner that you use it - this is religious bigotry and is racist. This word does not have anything to do with what taliban and their ilk propound to justify killing of innocent human beings. They don't follow Jehad by any stretch of imagination - they are nothing but plain terrorists.

I wonder why can't you intelligently comment on the theme of the response and instead hyperbole with a typical and incessant Joe Shearer rant. Don't resort to such full of fil-thy name calling again, it is indeed insulting beyond imagination.

@ Topic ......

Geo-economy has always been subservient to geopolitics. History is full of examples. And because you are so impressed by Indian Hindu rants and their money-minded ideology, and also because you call yourself a fauji historian, let me very briefly, highlight this from your beloved local history of Old India.

Vijyanagar was a state Indians talk about with pride. It was a rich state and had defied the Dilli Sarkar for years by refusing to pay the yearly taxes. When the forces of Dilli Sarkar reached the gates of his capital, the economically strong raja could not fight the might and paid lot more than what he owed, including his own daughter as alms to the King in Dilli.

The money does matter, but at the end of the day, it is not the money alone which saves your honour and dignity - it is an all inclusive and all encompassing strength which protects you.

Pull up your chin and learn to walk tall - you fly the Pakistani flags.

 

[Wickerman]

Geo-economy has always been subservient to geopolitics.

Not subservient. You cannot have strength either politically or militarily without a good economy. The first thing about strength is to be able to spend in order to maintain it. What you are saying is like asking Somalia to have the strongest army in Africa. Not possible.

Pull up your chin and learn to walk tall - you fly the Pakistani flags.

He is asking you to do that. Not play second fiddle and let every tom, dick and harry dictate terms to Pakistan. He wants Pakistan to let go of religious extremism, and look to the future and do the right thing in terms of trade, WHILE maintaining its national identity, pride and religion. I dont understand what you disagree with what he posted. Your suggestions for Pakistan's foreign policy is to adopt a stance, where Pakistan is seen as a necessity. Rather, Pakistan should be considered a regional power, economically and militarily. Thats what you should work toward. Not imagine some extraordinary circumstances and about how Pakistan can gain brownie points from them.

 

[Bang Galore]

. Please don't use the word Jihad in the manner that you use it - this is religious bigotry and is racist.


@ Topic ......

Geo-economy has always been subservient to geopolitics. History is full of examples. And because you are so impressed by Indian Hindu rants and their money-minded ideology, and also because you call yourself a fauji historian, let me very briefly, highlight this from your beloved local history of Old India.

...and this is an example of classic double speak of the Ticker kind
.

Vijyanagar was a state Indians talk about with pride. It was a rich state and had defied the Dilli Sarkar for years by refusing to pay the yearly taxes. When the forces of Dilli Sarkar reached the gates of his capital, the economically strong raja could not fight the might and paid lot more than what he owed, including his own daughter as alms to the King in Dilli.

The money does matter, but at the end of the day, it is not the money alone which saves your honour and dignity - it is an all inclusive and all encompassing strength which protects you.

Pull up your chin and learn to walk tall - you fly the Pakistani flags.

Gibberish !

 

[JonAsad]

...and this is an example of classic double speak of the Ticker kind
.



Gibberish !

i thought you might have some thing more to add than just Gibberish-

 

[Ticker]

Not subservient. You cannot have strength either politically or militarily without a good economy. The first thing about strength is to be able to spend in order to maintain it. What you are saying is like asking Somalia to have the strongest army in Africa. Not possible.

This is what I also said ......... The money does matter, but at the end of the day, it is not the money alone which saves your honour and dignity - it is an all inclusive and all encompassing strength which protects you.

Please do read the whole stuff before commenting. And for your information, geopolitics also encompasses geo-economy.

He is asking you to do that. Not play second fiddle and let every tom, dick and harry dictate terms to Pakistan. He wants Pakistan to let go of religious extremism, and look to the future and do the right thing in terms of trade, WHILE maintaining its national identity, pride and religion. I dont understand what you disagree with what he posted. Your suggestions for Pakistan's foreign policy is to adopt a stance, where Pakistan is seen as a necessity. Rather, Pakistan should be considered a regional power, economically and militarily. Thats what you should work toward. Not imagine some extraordinary circumstances and about how Pakistan can gain brownie points from them.

He's got a funny way of asking - doesn't he.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Vijyanagar was a state Indians talk about with pride. It was a rich state and had defied the Dilli Sarkar for years by refusing to pay the yearly taxes. When the forces of Dilli Sarkar reached the gates of his capital, the economically strong raja could not fight the might and paid lot more than what he owed, including his own daughter as alms to the King in Dilli.

Rama Raya had a daughter ?

Besides how were Deccan sultanates kings in Dilli?

More like childhood Indoctrination of perverted Indophobic versions of history to soothe the eternal identity crisis or maybe some bizarre closeted sexual fantasies.

Battle_of_Talikota

 

[INDIC]

Intelligent people get the political power as well as the money.

Stupid people only go for money and remain subservient to powerful people.

Please don't spread baniya ideology here. Everybody here is not a fauji historian here.

Few days ago, you were giving lessons on avoiding bigotry,what a surprise.

 

[Wickerman]

This is what I also said ......... The money does matter, but at the end of the day, it is not the money alone which saves your honour and dignity - it is an all inclusive and all encompassing strength which protects you.

Please do read the whole stuff before commenting. And for your information, geopolitics also encompasses geo-economy.

I read the whole post. What I mean is, that money is what you should be concentrating on. I mean China wouldn't be able to spend 150 billion USD on their army and command respect in the region, if they didnt have a 7 trillion USD economy. Economy comes first. Once you are economically stronger, political and military credibility will automatically follow. But your theory seems to put economy second to other necessities.

And FaujHistorian's reply was to comments like this:

And because you are so impressed by Indian Hindu rants and their money-minded ideology,

These so called Indian Hindu people who are money minded - they have been successful havent they? They have earned money, increased military strength and gained political credibility. So learn from them or if you dont like Hindus, learn from the Buddhists who are just as money minded, infact even more so.

 

[Ticker]

Rama Raya had a daughter ?

Besides how were Deccan sultanates kings in Dilli?

More like child Indoctrination of perverted Indophobic versions of history to soothe the eternal identity crisis or maybe some bizarre closeted sexual fantasies.

Battle_of_Talikota

Please read the book, A Forgotten Empire: Vijayanagar by Robert Sewel. There are some other related works as well. Fascinating reading indeed.

 

[Ticker]

Few days ago, you were giving lessons on avoiding bigotry,what a surprise.

Sir, even Indian Hindus here talk about Baniya mentality or ideology. And they themselves have admitted that it is a cultural slang even now used in India.

As I understand, Baniyas were the ones who would loan people money on exorbitant interests and were ruthless in getting their money back along with the interest, biyaj is probably the word used in Hindi - if I am not mistaken.